the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

What Is Sound Quality and How Is It Judge


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
rickford 
Member - Posts: 15
Member spacespace
Joined: February 14, 2005
Location: Malaysia
Posted: February 17, 2005 at 1:48 AM / IP Logged  
List down below are the sound quality scoring for IASCA SQ competition for those who are not familiar with IASCA competition format.
--edit---
rick engineering
kfr01 
Gold - Posts: 2,121
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 30, 2003
Posted: February 17, 2005 at 1:48 PM / IP Logged  
Throw a link in there whenever you copy text from another site.
New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Velocity Motors 
Moderator - Posts: 12,488
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Fabrication. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: February 17, 2005 at 5:37 PM / IP Logged  
Just to add that SQ is totally biased and is like an opinion........... you can't be wrong and it's your own perception of what you like to hear.
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
kfr01 
Gold - Posts: 2,121
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 30, 2003
Posted: February 17, 2005 at 11:17 PM / IP Logged  
Jeff: I agree with that to some extent. We all have personal preferences - I prefer sound warm and value the vocal range above all others. Again, I agree that SQ is largely subjective.
However, if some kid w/ crazy distortion and bass that is 12db hot calls his system an 'SQ' system I'm going to call his error in a second. This kid _can_ be wrong. His system isn't even close to accurately portraying the source.
I am no sound quality judge or expert. Most folks aren't. Most folks, however, can tell the difference between a really good, balanced, low distortion system and a system that was put together with 0 brain cells.
Using this example, I'd conclude that defining what IS truely "sound quality" might be a very difficult thing to do. However, defining what clearly ISN'T sound quality, I'd assert, is a very possible and easy endeavor.
Indeed, especially with car audio, I'd assert that "not sounding like crap" gets you 75% of the way to sound quality nirvana. That last quarter is something I've certainly not obtained, but I'm sure takes years of trial and error, heaps of knowledge, skill, and probably some decent cash.
New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
oonikfraleyoo 
Gold - Posts: 1,069
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: February 17, 2005 at 11:29 PM / IP Logged  
kfr01 - "not sounding like crap" gets you 75% of the way to sound quality nirvana.
Could not be said better.
Nik
Jeeputer Progress
[|||||||||||-] 90%
Check it out.
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: February 17, 2005 at 11:41 PM / IP Logged  

I have been really thinking this subject through quite a bit for a while.  Here is a quick description on my take on the whole "SQ" thing:

I personally think there are two different types of SQ. There is subjective SQ and objective SQ. Objective SQ is trying to achieve the closest reproduction to the original source material as possible (hi-fidelity). This means that there is no distortion added and the frequency response is flat. Subjective SQ is what we prefer. I believe people like their music to be a little surreal. Whether this includes boosting frequencies that are lost to their ears due to hearing damage, or adding distortion to give the music a warmer sound (tube amps).

We actually see the "surreal" side of things in more than just the music track of movies. They specifically tweak movies beyond reality to get us more into the story. This includes adding more bass to gun shots to make it more exciting. Or using color filters on the picture to give it a cooler, warmer, cleaner, etc. look. It provides us with a much better viewing experience, but it isn't a perfect reproduction of reality. They even re-record the vocal tracks in a studio because it's easier to understand what they are saying. But this effects the sound of their voice. Listen to the voice of the actor when they are outside and you will notice that it doesn't sound right. They sound like they are inside a room. It's nice to be able to understand what they are saying, but it does effect the reality of the experience IMO.
When it comes to music, there really isn't anything as good as seeing it live. It's like going to a play instead of a movie theater. Even though the special effects and such aren't as good in a play, there is just something more enjoyable about the experience when live. Well to reproduce that experience in your home (or car) without paying the performers to come and play for you, then I believe you want to reproduce the source material as close to the original as possible. Becides, you can always adjust from there if needed, or add back in the distortion you enjoy. But you always have a reference point to go back to.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

kfr01 
Gold - Posts: 2,121
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 30, 2003
Posted: February 17, 2005 at 11:52 PM / IP Logged  
Great post Steven, I like the movie analogy and really like the idea of having a reference point to come back to. Well said.
New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
stevdart 
Platinum - Posts: 5,816
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: February 18, 2005 at 12:07 AM / IP Logged  
Agree with kfr01....a very well stated post.  And I agree completely but wouldn't have been able to say it so clearly.
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: February 18, 2005 at 12:47 AM / IP Logged  

To be honest, I haven't come to a full conclusion on this topic.  I know that frequency response will effect the soundstage and imaging.  You need a flat response to gain this.  But I also know that my boss doesn't voice our speakers perfectly flat.  He and his partner, Dr. David Hyre, spent thousands of hours listening to different popular frequency responses till they found the best fit for the most people.  Now the target this response with all their speaker systems. 

But at the same time the whole live event thing comes up.  Sure we may like our surreal experience at the time.  But why is the live play so much better than the movie?  Why is the live music so much better than the tweaked reproduction we enjoy at home?  If we had a speaker system with a perfectly flat response from 1 Hz to 100 kHz, 0 distortion, perfect phase response, somehow negates all room effects on the sound, etc. would we still enjoy the speakers more by tweaking it for the above mentioned reasons? 

Also, what bad things happen to the music when we do tweak it?  There is a great deal of information in music that is very subtle providing ambiance, imaging cues for depth and position, etc.  Well what if that instant gradification we obtain by making that tweak effects the listening fatigue of the speakers, and so we don't enjoy it as long.  In other words, what if our short term satisfaction from the tweak unconsiously effects our long term enjoyment? 

My boss has done a great deal of study on how distortion effects our listening, and what the differences between the types of distortions are.  He had a long dinner with Dr. Earl Geddes and his wife Dr. Lee (I can't remember her first name).  Dr. Geddes has his doctorate in acoustics IIRC and his wife is an audiologist where she studies the human ear.  Here's a link to their site: http://www.gedlee.com/   Basically they have found that it isn't the total distortion that is bad, but mainly odd order distortions that sound the worst.  Unfortunately physics guarantees that you can't completely eliminate all forms of distortion in a speaker.  We have brought to market a great technology that greatly reduces the more intolerable distortions.  But we have found that some don't like our speakers sound because they are used to the distortion that we eliminated.  It doesn't sound as "warm" to them.  However we feel that it is better to eliminate the distortions for a reference point, and then tweak from there if you really want to.  You can start from reference and move backward (add distortion, tweak the response).  But it is much more difficult (and sometimes impossible) to go the other direction.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

DYohn 
Moderator - Posts: 10,741
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: February 18, 2005 at 10:40 AM / IP Logged  

Ah yes, the old technical response VS audio perception can of worms.

Most people do not like the sound of flat frequency response.  That's one of the reasons the old RIAA equalization curve was created: to re-introduce and emphasize those frequency bands most people say are "missing" in a "flat" curve as well as to cut or de-emphasize those most people find harsh.  It's why pre-amps have "loudness" buttons and tone controls: to allow the listener to manipulate the sound in ways that both compensate for deficiencies and "colorations" in the reproduction equipment and to create colorations the average listener finds more pleasing.

It is not "distortion" that makes a sound warm or cold or neutral, it is the emphasis placed on certain harmonics from the musical fundamentals.  The difference in sound between a clarinet and an oboe is due to such harmonics.  It's what creates the "quality" of a sound.  Pure tone sounds "bad" and "mechanical" to the human ear and we do not like them.  That's why tubes tend to sound "better" to most people: they emphasize harmonics in ways more natural and pleasing to the human ear than can more accurate and "cleaner" amplifiers.

Audio design is a careful response dance between accuracy and manipulation.  It is impossible for any audio gear - and especially impossible for loudspeakers - to not add coloration and manipulation to a sound.  Anything that passes a signal will add something of its own character to that signal.  The key in good SQ, I believe, is to minimize those "additions" and "colorations" and to control those inevitable ones such that they tend toward what pleases the intended audience.

Support the12volt.com
Page of 2

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Friday, April 19, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer