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12 volts not doing the trick?


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Tegpilot 
Copper - Posts: 93
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 11, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 10:52 AM / IP Logged  
Ok, so I have an MRV-F357 that uses Alpine's V12 power feature meaning i get about double power with 14.4 volts than at 12.  My 99 Integra has a battery about the size of one you might find on a good cordless drill.  haha.  Ok. I am only getting at least 12 volts at the +12 lead on my amp according to my meter.  Will a capacitor help in this situation.  I hate not being able to use what the amp is made for!  Thanks for you help
tcss 
Silver - Posts: 1,623
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 11:57 AM / IP Logged  
Almost all cars with properly running alternators and voltage regulators should be reading between 13.5 to 14.4 volts when running. I would look there first.
Drewt 
Copper - Posts: 183
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:13 PM / IP Logged  
a cap will NOT give you any more voltage or total power (it may actually give you a little less, although not likley with voltage).
You need to run it with your car running, since the alternator will make btwn. 13.5 and 14.4 volts like tcss said. Now, if your alternator can make enough power for your amp, but you are still undervolting a little below your normal (but above 12v), then a cap will help. If you are undervolting below 12v with the car running, then you need a better/nother battery (and probally a bigger alternator)
Short answer: no
-Drew
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:21 PM / IP Logged  

And Alpine amps do not have a magic circuit that makes double the power at 14.4 volts as compared to 12 volts. It is called a unregulated power supply that most (not all) manufacturers use......to me your opening statement sounds like a salespersons lie. No offence intended either, just want you to know the truth.

The reason for the no answer from the guys above is that although it theory it will work and drop the resistance down to 2 ohms, increasing the power output, this output will now be split evenly between the speakers and the resistor (if one can be found that can get rid of that much heat on a consistent basis). So yes it would work but you would have no more output than what you have now.

To get louder, you need to double things. So if you do not have an amp on these speakers, add a 50 w rms x 2 amp to them. If you have a 50w rms x 2 amp, then you need a 100w rms x 2 amp to make a difference that you can hear with your ears. Have 100w rms x 2, then you need a 200w rms x 2, next would be a 400w rms x 2......

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
oonikfraleyoo 
Gold - Posts: 1,069
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:28 PM / IP Logged  
forbidden wrote:
The reason for the no answer from the guys above is that although it theory it will work and drop the resistance down to 2 ohms, increasing the power output, this output will now be split evenly between the speakers and the resistor (if one can be found that can get rid of that much heat on a consistent basis). So yes it would work but you would have no more output than what you have now.
To get louder, you need to double things. So if you do not have an amp on these speakers, add a 50 w rms x 2 amp to them. If you have a 50w rms x 2 amp, then you need a 100w rms x 2 amp to make a difference that you can hear with your ears. Have 100w rms x 2, then you need a 200w rms x 2, next would be a 400w rms x 2......
Umm..did I miss something?
::EDIT:: Ok, I think I understand. Did you mean that second part for this thread?
Nik
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Drewt 
Copper - Posts: 183
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:33 PM / IP Logged  
yeah....what's the talk of resistors....
tcss 
Silver - Posts: 1,623
Silver spacespace
Joined: June 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:34 PM / IP Logged  
With much respect to Rob as a platnum member I have to disagree. Alpine amps as with almost all others do put out more power @ 14.4 volts then @ 12 volts. Although it is not double it is meaningful.For instance the the MRD-M605 puts out 600 RMS @ 14.4 volts @ 2 ohms whlie @ the same ohm rating it puts out 400 RMS @ 12 volts. Your needing to double the power to hear any audible volume ( 1db ) statement is incorrect. Doubling of power produces a 3db volume increase so increasing power by 50% ( 400 to 600 RMS)will produce a 1.5db increase. Small but definately audible.The only amps I know of that do not reduce power at lower voltage levels are the JL slash series and I believe that power supply is patented.
modena0 
Copper - Posts: 85
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 18, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:44 PM / IP Logged  

if i am not mistaken the Slash series PS is regulated, hence the lack of output power change.

forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 1:47 PM / IP Logged  

I mixed threads...darn. but it might serve a purpose here anyways.

tcss, I think you misread my statement or perhaps I did not make it clear enough. Here it is again.

"And Alpine amps do not have a magic circuit that makes double the power at 14.4 volts as compared to 12 volts. It is called a unregulated power supply that most (not all) manufacturers use......to me your opening statement sounds like a salespersons lie. No offence intended either, just want you to know the truth. "

In my quote there you will notice the statement unregulated power supply, this like most all amplifiers (some notable exceptions though), is why and amplifier makes more power at 14.4 volts as compared to 12 volts. It is not a proprietary circuit found only in Alpine V12 amplifiers, which to me is how I read the original post. I know that you are well aware of this and this is why I think you misread my post, no harm done.

To me, and any post I have made reference to for years and years on many differing forums, a noticeable difference that one can hear is 3db, not 1 db. I assumed that all who would read this would also assume this as well. To me is seems that you assumed it was 1 db when you knew it should be 3db. So again perhaps I should have included this in the explanation. Here is the second part of my quote which supports my statement.

"To get louder, you need to double things. So if you do not have an amp on these speakers, add a 50 w rms x 2 amp to them. If you have a 50w rms x 2 amp, then you need a 100w rms x 2 amp to make a difference that you can hear with your ears. Have 100w rms x 2, then you need a 200w rms x 2, next would be a 400w rms x 2...... "

This statement does indeed show a doubling of something to have the noticeable diffenence in output levels that we can hear easily, it is also the exact basic formula for one to gain 3db and not 1db.

So, looks like I should have made my post a little cleaner or perhaps your contacts were a little blury. No harm done. Hope you agree with my post this time dude.

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Tegpilot 
Copper - Posts: 93
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 11, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: July 12, 2005 at 2:00 PM / IP Logged  

Ok here is the Spec Sheet.  Not double,  *my apologizes* didn't think you guys paid that much attention.  umm here you go.  I would say that at RMS 30w/chan apposed to 50w/chan is noticeable, whether 1db or not 3db.  My intention in the question was the same as "why buy monster when you can go to wall-mart for you cables"  I just want to get what my amp will produce.  By the way, I'm running kappa 6-1/2 components all the way around. 

Power Output: RMS Continuous Power (at 12.0V, 20 Hz to 20

kHz)
MRV-F357
Per channel into 4 ohms (CH-1 – CH-4) ..... 30W, 0.08% THD
Per channel into 2 ohms (CH-1 – CH-4) ...... 40W, 0.3% THD
Bridged into 4 ohms (CH-1 – CH-4) ............ 80W, 0.3% THD
4 ohms (CH-5) ......................................... 100W, 0.3% THD

Power Output: RMS Continuous Power (at 14.4V, 20 Hz to 20

kHz)
MRV-F357
Per channel into 4 ohms (CH-1 – CH-4) ..... 50W, 0.08% THD
Per channel into 2 ohms (CH-1 – CH-4) ...... 60W, 0.3% THD
Bridged into 4 ohms (CH-1 – CH-4) .......... 120W, 0.3% THD
4 ohms (CH-5) ......................................... 150W, 0.3% THD

Max. Power (at 14.4V)

MRV-F357
Per channel into 4 ohms (CH-1 – CH-4) ........................ 90W
Bridged into 4 ohms (CH-1 – CH-4) ............................ 240W
4 ohms (CH-5) ........................................................... 300W

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