installer’s point of view
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Mobile Electronics Questions and Answers
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=102878
Printed Date: May 13, 2024 at 9:45 PM
Topic: installer’s point of view
Posted By: tedmond
Subject: installer’s point of view
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 8:20 PM
hey all, long story short. I have been installing alarms and remote starts since i was 12 or so and have about 5 years of knowledge and experiance. Befor that, my mother purchased her car from the dealer, and they offered to put a remote start into it. The unit is an Artic Start 3-button 1way alarm/rs. Now After being familliar with alarms, i found out the dealer that installed the alarm/rs. They neglected to hood up the tach and the second starter wire. Should i just open it up and wire in the second relay and run the tach OR bring it back to the dealer that installed it for me - as all car shops do lifetime warrenty. i just want to know because during cold days the car doesnt even start it tried 3 times and thats it stops. when its warmer out it starts but has grind since its on voltage sense. but from Installers POV what do you think i should do. 1) bring it back 2) to hell iwth it and do it myself.
Replies:
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 8:25 PM
That's a tough situation. If your Mom paid for the install you should get a quality install. But, the other side of that is they took a shortcut the first time, are they going to get it right the 2nd time? If you do it yourself at least you know its going to be done right. ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 8:37 PM
i know what you mean kpierson, I have been thinking about this since i have my high school march break, i dont know waht is best. Do you think they will charge me for the fix ie adding the relay and running a tach which they should have done in the first place? i dont mind spending 5 bucks for a relay to be honest, but any 1 want to chime in on this? thanks
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 8:58 PM
I can agree with Kevin. They gave it their best on the first try, and failed miserably... do you want to give them another attempt? If it's not that big of a deal for you to do it yourself, do it, then let them know you had to correct their mistakes. -------------
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 8:59 PM
If installation was paid for then they shouldn't charge you at all. I would take it back to the dealer and complain to them about it not working right. Then ask them if they hooked up the 2nd starter wire and ask them where specifically the tach wire was hooked up to. ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 9:08 PM
i have removed the drivers kick and checked the knee kick area and steering collumn. They have everything wired up properly, very clean but they didnt bother connecting the second starter wire and tach. I know the tach can be found there as well but yea i guess they cut corners. I kno for sure they didnt hook up the second starter wire as i opened and glanced at their job, didnt touch anything. THe crappy thing was, at the time i had very little knowlege on alarms/rs so my mother paid 700 dollars for a 1way wth! lol only if i knew befor i would have demanded a pager system. kartuneman, to be honest its not a big deal to me, if i do it by mysell, ill hook up the defrost, run the tach and the additional relay. Do you know of the artic start has a 5th relay programmable output? . I thank both you Kevin and KTM for giving some insight to my questions. .
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 9:10 PM
btw this is a 2002 Toyota Camry LE V6. the tach is at the fuse box area and GEEZE they couldnt spend 2 min to tap into this wire.
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 9:16 PM
If she paid $700 for it I would definately take it back. If you are going to rip people off then at least do a decent installation job. I'm guessing the dealer subbed it out to a local shop/installer? ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 9:27 PM
yea 700 for a decent job its not wired in completely. The local dealer did send it out to a local shop. The thing is, i went to artic starts website and found 5 local shops that were authorized dealers. i called each dealer and they said they dont install for toyota. i questioed the dealership and the guy i was talkin to had no idea. i guess i have to call again and see exactly where it was installed. if i cant find it i guess its an hour of my time in my garage.
Posted By: zerepdivad
Date Posted: March 07, 2008 at 11:49 PM
Damn 700 dollars for a crappy incomplete install?? That's crazy what some places let leave their shop.. If your mom payed that much send it back to them so they FINISH their install that you payed them for. I know i'd never let a car leave like that from my bay.
-------------
A DMM is a beautiful thing.
MECP Advanced Installer Certified.
Posted By: luckytii7
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 12:01 AM
I would bring it back. I will not warranty a RS that someone has messed with and i know my work and supplies that i use. in other words if something happends to the brain and they figure out you messed with it even if you know 10 times more than them and can do it right they may not warranty it
-------------
The greatest revenge is living well and showing it
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 4:36 AM
Ted, 5 years is probably too long for comebacks in the real world. With your knowledge you could do it yourself in half an hour, and swallow it OR suggest you rectify it and make them pay say $30 towards your parts and labour.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 5:54 AM
zerepdivad wrote:
Damn 700 dollars for a crappy incomplete install?? That's crazy what some places let leave their shop.. If your mom payed that much send it back to them so they FINISH their install that you payed them for. I know i'd never let a car leave like that from my bay.
yea 700 ! at the time i had little knowlege and thought it was a pager but in the end was disapointed ahah. See i know installers here would have to agree that they did a half ass job on their part, and 100% sure no1 here would let a car leave their install bay like this; since your here helping individuals that need guidance and telling what is best from an installers point of view.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 5:58 AM
luckytii7, I realize that ALL shops follow that if you messed with the install, then warrenty is no longer issued. But with years of experiance it kinda makes you want to fix their mistake but at the same time, i worry about the warrenty as if something does go wrong, then i can take it back-if it was the case, that would give me the excuse to get a compustar pager unit ahah.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 6:11 AM
howie ll wrote:
Ted, 5 years is probably too long for comebacks in the real world. With your knowledge you could do it yourself in half an hour, and swallow it OR suggest you rectify it and make them pay say $30 towards your parts and labour.
if only they would pay me for parts and labour i would be more than happy to finish off their half ass job ! at the same time its my moms car,so care and making sure its done right would be priority. hey howie, thanks to you and others for tsuggestions. I guess its hard to decide when your an installer, but had the unit intstalled elswhere huh.
Posted By: chriswallace187
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 4:34 PM
By all rights they should fix at least the 2nd starter - the tach is more sketchy, I know a lot of shops that don't hook them up and Scytek's tech support told me "our tachless is excellent, why are you using a tach on that car?" It boils down to which you find more pleasant - forcing a dealer to fix substandard work or saving time. You've got the skill to fix it yourself in much less time than it'd take to drive to the dealer and back, to say nothing about waiting there. I had a similar dilemma with an easy repair on my Saturn(still under warranty). Doorlock was slightly bent on the front pass. door...took me 20 minutes to fix compared to a 30 min. roundtrip to the nearest dealer...but then again it's sometimes fun forcing people to give you good customer service  ------------- C Renner's Auto Electronix
My service is cheap, quick, and good - pick any two
Posted By: Chris Luongo
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 8:44 PM
I wouldn't want to make too many excuses for the installer.......but 2002 was the first year for that style Camry, and if your mother might have bought it in late 2001, there probably wasn't much wiring information available about the car yet.
Regardless, if whoever installed it is reputable, they should be happy to fix the mistake.
Are you 100% sure they missed the second starter? I'm pretty sure those cars won't even start at all if both aren't hooked up.
Regardless........
I don't see any reason why the company that did the original installation wouldn't be willing to correct any mistakes.
Tach hookup is more of an opinion thing than a rule......but probably if you or your mother asked nicely if they could hook it up, they probably would.
Like the others have said, if you do go ahead and fix it on your own, forget about any warranty from the original installer after that.
I think:
--If you feel your installation skills are not only good enough to fix this problem, but to fix any future problems that may arise, go ahead and take care of it yourself. It would save your mother the trouble of leaving the car at the dealership for the day.
--If you don't feel comfortable with any possible future repairs, as well as the loss of warranty, it might be good to bring the car back there and let them deal with it.
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 8:52 PM
A truely good installer should be able to mimic the installation of another installer. After all, the goal of any good installer should be to create an "OEM" appearance by blending their installation in with the OEM wiring as best as possible. For these two connections I wouldn't worry about the original shop voiding your warranty. :) ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: prdjr165
Date Posted: March 08, 2008 at 9:30 PM
A good son would go ahead and fix the car correctly for his mom(if he knows how).
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 7:36 AM
you both make a good point chris Luongo and wallace ! hey chris luong, im postive they missed the second start wire. The toyotas will start with one starter wire, but will rarely start in the winter sinec its missing its second starter wire. Its same as nissans starting system. 2 starter wires, if main is connected car starts no problem. but as winter comes around it wont even crank properly. well as Kevin mentioned, i guess im going to do it myself. NO biggie. now i just need to pick up a relay harnesses, 2 relays, and green wire (thats what they used).Need to make it look OEM - thanks for the tip KPierson. any1 know what the defrost is on the car? i dont wanna poke around to test each wire to see if its the defrost :) any help is appreciated and thanks again to all that replied.
Posted By: chadwa2003
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 8:22 AM
Rear defrost is YELLOW /GREEN at the fuse box astro says it needs a 8 min neg trigger
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 11:38 AM
alrigh tgoing to tackle this tomorrow . thanks chadwa2003!
Posted By: Chris Luongo
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 1:32 PM
Man I wish I had more access to AstroChart...sometimes I'm tempted to buy it. They seem to have almost everything.
That YELLOW /GREEN at the fusebox will test as a low-current ground whenever the defroster is on.
On my friend's '04 Camry (before the modern RS units that have defroster outputs), I connected the remote starter's ground-when-running wire to the YELLOW /GREEN.
I also put a toggle switch inline, and place the switch in the car's fusebox. During the summer months, he can turn it off.
P.S.
KPierson, I'm not sure sure that any of us could duplicate each other's installations perfectly.
I'm almost OCD as to which way I wrap my tape, which direction I face the female spade connectors on the relays, which zip ties I cut short and which I leave long, and things like that.
As I've made changes in my techniques over the years, if a car comes back for repair, I can often even guess when I did it.
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 2:50 PM
Chris, sorry to say the astrochart is not for sale, it is tech services for astro dealers only. If you want to get your hands on some of the smartest remote start product made (my opinion of course) call and speak to Martha. -------------
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 5:42 PM
KTM u sure love the astro units ! hey chris luong, you dont have access to DEI Directechs? i thought ur an authorized dealer of DEI. anyways you should get Wire Magic. I bought it 2 years ago and it sure was a big price tag for a young guy like myself. 400 dollars for the Installogy WIremagic. It has everything as well, but i got a demo version of astrochart and honestly i say astrochart smokes magic wire ! but no other program i have seen goes into so much detail. i guess wiremagic is your only option unles people know of others.
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 6:47 PM
I'm with Chris on his comments, even down to which make of insulating tape and where I've mounted/hidden the unit.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 6:55 PM
i opened itup today and it made me go out and buy a roll of Super Scotch 33+
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 7:13 PM
Ted that Scotch 33+ is $10 per roll here! Swap you loads of relays? I've probably got more than Kevin P.!! Chris were you taught to mount relays with connectors underneath, first so that gravity assists the internal contacts and second to prevent water ingress?
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 8:39 PM
howie ll wrote:
Ted that Scotch 33+ is $10 per roll here! Swap you loads of relays? I've probably got more than Kevin P.!! Chris were you taught to mount relays with connectors underneath, first so that gravity assists the internal contacts and second to prevent water ingress?
Come on now, give me some credit here!!!!!!!! And these are just the ones in my basement.... :) 
------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 8:51 PM
Ahh Kevin, thats funny as hell..... in ya face howie. -------------
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 9:27 PM
ahah hey howie, the scotch 33 isnt that much here from where im from. Home Depot (hardware store) charges 6 bucks for that roll. Hey Kevin, you sure stock up on relays. do you get them wholesale?
Howie, can you top that? thats like 200+ relays!
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 9:35 PM
Yes, they were purchased wholesale from Parts Express. They are unique in the fact they are weather proof. Great for mounting in engine bays (fog light, head lights, etc.). I have harnesses for them all too! Scotch 33+ is expensive, but it is worth it. ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: chadwa2003
Date Posted: March 09, 2008 at 10:29 PM
KarTuneMan wrote:
Chris, sorry to say the astrochart is not for sale, it is tech services for astro dealers only.
If you want to get your hands on some of the smartest remote start product made (my opinion of course) call and speak to Martha.
I'm not an astro dealer I actually bought it from robert thibert
Posted By: chriswallace187
Date Posted: March 10, 2008 at 12:17 AM
Howie and Chris Luongo, you guys don't like relay harnesses?
I think my cost is $2.99/roll of Super 33+ and $.66/roll of Tartan(the cheaper 3M tape); I use the Super 33+ for connections and the Tartan for wrapping my harnesses when I'm bench wiring or replacing factory tape.
-------------
C Renner's Auto Electronix
My service is cheap, quick, and good - pick any two
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 10, 2008 at 5:34 AM
Yes and this is what happens when we go to war! With the exception of the SAS we are always cadging better equipment off of you lot!!! Why do you think that whenever we get to North America the first thing we do is find a Snap-on truck or head for a Sears store? Hell we even pay twice as much for the alarms!* Weller gun = $72, Weller cordless = $120, Klein strippers = $40 I love this mine is bigger than yours  If I could work out how I'd cheat and show you a bank of 72 x 4 pole changeovers but I've also got loads of minis, old Omrons from G2/3 Cliffords, I've even got 87b relays, Jap relays etcChris, I'm usually doing mini relays with low amperage applications such as polarity reversal or locks , I solder and bundle them in the loom, yes if I need more juice then I use harnesses, that means carrying a stock of uninsulated connectors and an extra crimper ! Don't forget the 100 packs of 1N4 and 1N5 diodes, various value resistors, fabric backed tape for those cars that use it, solder reels, drill bits and cone cuts, etc etc. * A DEI Viper 1002 costs the dealer a shade under $200 !!! Regards to all, Howard.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 10, 2008 at 7:34 AM
KPierson wrote:
Yes, they were purchased wholesale from Parts Express. They are unique in the fact they are weather proof. Great for mounting in engine bays (fog light, head lights, etc.). I have harnesses for them all too!
Scotch 33+ is expensive, but it is worth it.
Want to sell me a pack of relays :) could use a few more. To be honest i think scotch 33+ is the best tape I have ever used, it sticks well, doesn’t leave residue, doest peel when its very cold or hot. and the texture on it is cool too. chadwa2003 wrote:
I'm not an astro dealer I actually bought it from robert thibert
Hows the astro chart? The demo I got looks fairly good IMO. How much you pay for it, I might get a copy myself if I can. chriswallace187 wrote:
Howie and Chris Luongo, you guys don't like relay harnesses? I think my cost is $2.99/roll of Super 33+ and $.66/roll of Tartan(the cheaper 3M tape); I use the Super 33+ for connections and the Tartan for wrapping my harnesses when I'm bench wiring or replacing factory tape.
Damn! Every1 can get anything at such a cheap price. Hey Chris Wallace, I guess I pick CHEAP and GOOD ahah. howie ll wrote:
Yes and this is what happens when we go to war! With the exception of the SAS we are always cadging better equipment off of you lot!!! Why do you think that whenever we get to North America the first thing we do is find a Snap-on truck or head for a Sears store? Hell we even pay twice as much for the alarms!* Weller gun = $72, Weller cordless = $120, Klein strippers = $40 I love this mine is bigger than yours If I could work out how I'd cheat and show you a bank of 72 x 4 pole changeovers but I've also got loads of minis, old Omrons from G2/3 Cliffords, I've even got 87b relays, Jap relays etc Chris, I'm usually doing mini relays with low amperage applications such as polarity reversal or locks , I solder and bundle them in the loom, yes if I need more juice then I use harnesses, that means carrying a stock of uninsulated connectors and an extra crimper ! Don't forget the 100 packs of 1N4 and 1N5 diodes, various value resistors, fabric backed tape for those cars that use it, solder reels, drill bits and cone cuts, etc etc. * A DEI Viper 1002 costs the dealer a shade under $200 !!! Regards to all, Howard.
Hey Howie, those omron relays are old ! do they still manufacture those? ! See I wish I was a DEI dealer, that way I could get units for cheap :) right howie ahah. I guess in the UK, everything cost more. A decent weller gun for 72 is sure pricey. Im my area I have a store called SAYALS and they sell weller guns for 45 bucks or sumthing and we all know weller is one of the best. Others may have other opionions but yea IMO weller is good stuff. Its funny how i started a thread about fixing sumthing, now we are in a WAR  "battle of the installers"
How long you guys been in the field?
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 11, 2008 at 9:59 AM
Did I mention gas at $10 gal?  or a 530t costs $80? *Or the economy has gone flat? Any jobs going in SCal, New York, Arizona or Israel? Scratch Israel its S/Cal with more guns and more languages! Except the nightlife is better. Ted I passed a Mercedes CLK with Ontario plates this a.m., it makes a pleasant change from Polish no. plates. * And Gary (KTM) laughs when I make my own 508ds. Yes I'm sure KP probably could but from your points of view its not worth the time. By the way Kevin I forgot latching relays!! Try explain them and why to a novice! Date back to my Solaris days with only one aux, fire it through a latch then a timer for headlights when alarm on or trunk release when alarm off.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 11, 2008 at 6:38 PM
| Howie, you are an electrical car godess. I didnt even know wat you just said but its cool | |
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 11, 2008 at 6:40 PM
tsk tsk tsk amatuer..... :)
-------------
Kevin Pierson
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 11, 2008 at 7:16 PM
What do you mean Goddess? Surely the BMW King but lets be honest I'm left for dead with US cars , no experience. Whos the amateur KP? I wish I had Ted's knowledge when I was 16.
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 11, 2008 at 7:44 PM
tedmond is an amatuer for copying and pasting his response above. I always get a laugh out of it as I can't figure out why this forum won't let you do that. ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: the12volt
Date Posted: March 11, 2008 at 7:52 PM
It's his hotbar tool bar that's triggering the reformatting... -------------  the12volt • Support the12volt.com
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 13, 2008 at 9:56 AM
Just to rub it in, I pulled an old Clifford Eagle from a 10 year old Camry this am and won 3 relays, 3 holders OK Chris and 5 more Omrons off the board. Ted Omrons make or made the highest quality of all.
Posted By: tedmond
Date Posted: March 13, 2008 at 11:24 AM
awww Kpierson, no need to shut me down :( amature still learning. the12volt is correct, i dont c/p my own posts its because i had that yahoo toolbar, and that messed up my post formatting. hey howie, you strip the relays off theboards?
Posted By: howie ll
Date Posted: March 13, 2008 at 12:34 PM
Good relays are all those old alarms are good for, old US made Cliffords always, especially G3 had the best quality components. Yes to answer your question, strenght, a solder pump or some old coax outer all do the trick!
Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: March 13, 2008 at 1:22 PM
tedmond wrote:
awww Kpierson, no need to shut me down :( amature still learning. the12volt is correct, i dont c/p my own posts its because i had that yahoo toolbar, and that messed up my post formatting. hey howie, you strip the relays off theboards?
Glad to hear you got it fixed! I never would have thought a tool bar would do that! ------------- Kevin Pierson
Posted By: chriswallace187
Date Posted: March 17, 2008 at 1:03 AM
howie ll wrote:
Just to rub it in, I pulled an old Clifford Eagle from a 10 year old Camry this am and won 3 relays, 3 holders OK Chris and 5 more Omrons off the board. Ted Omrons make or made the highest quality of all.
excellent...glad someone had a productive week...I spent it lazing away in Florida ------------- C Renner's Auto Electronix
My service is cheap, quick, and good - pick any two
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