so i got a new job, disappointed

I feel like I made a lateral move. I really disliked my previous job, particularly my employer and his business tactics or lack there of.

I went from manager/head installer (I was the only installer) to a another managerial position, but primarily on the sales floor. I went from hourly to salary plus commission, I don't know yet how that is going to work out but the last place was some times 6 days a week and I still wasn't pulling 40 hours!

My first day on the job and I get a glimpse of my new employer's attitude/ business ethnics, and I was pretty disappointed. He yells like child and makes a big fuss that solves nothing. Most of the employees have no respect for him and say mean things behind his back.

This is a wake up call for me, I really hate to say it but the 12volt industry is hurting. Not only hurting but ever evolving.

I spoke to a former shop owner and his take was that these shops are no longer run by shop owners, but rather business men. Much has changed, and sadly I think my time in the 12volt industry is coming to an end.

There is of course the issue of the economy, I am not going to go on a political tirade but just mention that every body is hurting from it (obviously).

I wrote some stuff, but it seems that it is lacking a thesis, or main point so take it for it's worth.


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dwarren wrote:

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I spoke to a former shop owner and his take was that these shops are no longer run by shop owners, but rather business men. 

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What does that mean?

dwarren wrote:

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There is of course the issue of the economy, I am not going to go on a political tirade but just mention that every body is hurting from it

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There are significant structural issues within the United States economy. 

Generally speaking, industries that deal in frivolities are the first to be impacted by an economic downturn.

dwarren wrote:

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I went from manager/head installer (I was the only installer) to a another managerial position, but primarily on the sales floor. I went from hourly to salary plus commission, I don't know yet how that is going to work out but the last place was some times 6 days a week and I still wasn't pulling 40 hours!

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I used to toy with the idea of getting a job as a salesguy -I think I'd be really good at it- but it seems like the enviornments I see when I go shopping are - hostile - to say the least.

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

when shops are busy evryone gets along, when work slows down a shop can implode if people dont keep perspective on things.  if your making ok money to live and doing the type of work you want, then stay if your not you should move on.

as far as sales, i started on the sales floor and moved to the bay. sales is all about the sale,  that left me wanting a bit more out of my job.

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life is a comedy to think, a tragedy to feel

It's really hard working for someone who isn't a good leader.  By your brief comments and initial impression it doesn't appear the new boss is an effective manager.  Most places have a 90 day evaluation period.   Don't make any rush decisions, sit back and feel it out.  It after 30 days or so if things arn't getting any better you'll have 60 days to find something new. 

Good luck!

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Kevin Pierson

THE 12-VOLT INDUSTRY WILL NEVER DIE!!!!! fact is... as long as americans still buy cars with the sole purpose of personalization and customization... 12-volt will always be around....  now true.. the economy is down... and john q just don't have the money to spend on a bangin system that he used to... but as long as the carmakers continue to grossly overcharge for new cars with weak systems... people are always gonna change em.... then with the new technologies of bluetooth and ipod... the 12-volt industry must do as it always has and evolve.... continue to beat the carmakers in being cuttin edge.....

just remember.... u got that baby boomer that has that brand spanking new lexus, caddilac, or bmw..... and yeah.. changing the radio is a pain.... but if u go out to his garage.. there sits that same ol 77 chevelle he was driving back in high school.... 8-track cassette..... mono speaker and all in the rear deck.... soon as the kids finish up college.. adn the house is paid off.... he's gonna pull that thing outta the garage and pump it....lmao

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there can be only one.......

i feel your pain though.... i myself have just recently changed jobs... i also was a shop manager for 5 years and am now a salesman.... yeah....my boss is an irritable sob most of the time..... but hell... he has been doin this for 30 years which for me would be too long....lol

somedays i find myself searching for motivation to go to work.... but u know what... the only motivation i have been able to find is the fact that i love cars.. i love audio..... and that's enough for me to pry myself outta bed everyday and go deal with this guy.... he is cool most of the time.... but when he gets goin.... watch out....lol

hey dude.... hang in there..... and just remember... sometimes it's gotta get a whole lot worse before it gets any better............

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there can be only one.......

I have heard this industry was gonna end for the last 25 years!!

everytime it starts to get slow for some they say its ending. and start to blame it on anything and everything they can think of. instead of looking at themself.

I would say if you want to survive, stick to the service end of this industry and don't worry so much about failure. Don't be so arrogant with small jobs, the average customer dosen't know the difference between a small job and a large one, if they come into your shop it means they need something.

Take a good look around your shop and ask yourself, "how would I feel if I walked in the door, what would I like to see and how would I expect to be treated."

There are millions and millions of cars on the road, and to say this industry is gonna end is like saying the car industry is gonna end.

usabuilt wrote:

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There are millions and millions of cars on the road, and to say this industry is gonna end is like saying the car industry is gonna end.

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You make an interesting point.  However -  I think you're missing the forrest for the trees by making such an absolutist statement.  Just as cars will not be running on gasoline (hopefully) in 10 or 15 years - the aftermarket industry is not going to be running on stereo parts or iPod integration.  Technology is going to eclipse this business model.

The overarching trend is clear - car makers will continue to integrate vehicular electronics more and more extensively as processing power, displays, and circuitry continue to become (in real terms) cheaper and cheaper.  Note how quickly car makers jumped on the iPod bandwagon . . .

From an OEM standpoint, sourcing high quality drivers, a high-power OEM amplifier and CD/DVD player that can compete with most aftermarket systems really is not cost-prohibitive - particularly as extras like this become the tipping point for actually getting the car off the dealers' lot in the first place.  The added cost to the vehicles production/sales/end purchaser cost would be a fraction of an aftermarket install for comparable quality. 

Part of me hates to admit it, but some factory sound systems have really gotten *incredible* over the past few years.  This trend is going to continue to the point where upgrading and pursuing aftermarket options for the majority of vehicles built is going to become pointless - well beyond the point of dimishing returns. 

While I don't argue that the trend is toward extinction by anymeans, irrespective of the US' temporary economic situation, the aftermarket industry here is in for significant constriction.

I heard this stock '05 Infinity the other day that could *easily* compete with my 1.2kw JL Audio system (well - above 100hz anyway).

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

I appreciate all the comments, they all have put new perspectives on my situation. Thank you.

I still continue to feel that my particular situation is some what sparse, but there are positives to it, such as the fact that I am working with a higher end clientel, in general. We do much business with the local MB and Audi/VW dealers.

No, I don't think the industry is ending, but rather evolving and ever changing. I have faith in the after market companies, and that they will continue to produce great products that will integrate with oem systems, creating business for us.

I genuinely think my boss may be bi-polar or manic depressive, no joke. But obviously in his "good" moments things run very smooth and he is quite knowledgable, but he lacks one thing that my last employer did too, and that's hands on shop experience, (i.e business men, not shop onwers, sedate).

Sedate, as far as that first comment I made about the shop owners, I took as this, shops no longer have the small mom and pop mentality any longer per say, but rather a more aggressive attitude (which is understandable). I think the comment was aimed towards installers, as it used to be that installers would stay with a shop for many many years, but now installers are lured by the next big shop and better pay.

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A couple of points, we've recently done some high end work on older cars, laugh but look, lots of labour = profit, no warning lights, Iso radio slot so no nasty fascias or CAN interfaces. There are loads of mid 90s Camrys, Maxis, BMW and M/Benz out there! I'm looking at companies marketing tracking solutions to sub for them, the mom and pop shop is my age group (61) and dieing out. The biggest DEI dealer in the UK works from an industrial unit, no shop, massive advertising and all the instalers are subbies.

The two biggest reasons in my opinion for the slow down in this industry is most people lease cars nowadays, and keeping a car for 2 years does not make people want to spend any money on upgrades, also the dealer threats on voiding warranty are another thorn.

So basically these two things and the fact that most people have never heard a decent sound system have kept us out of the new car market, unless you are and expeditor. yuk


I just wonder who would actually go out and buy a new Ford because it has voice recognition, I mean 20 grand or $399.00 a month for voice recognition is a hefty chunk of change. :)

And what good is the voice recognition on a Friday night out when you have to tell your drunk passengers to be quiet so you can use it? 

How much use is the factory installed remote start that has no more range than the factory keyless systems do, won't work from a high-rise apartment, most workplaces, a mall, etc., and won't work if the check engine light is on due to a downstream O2 sensor that the customer, living in a non-emissions testing area, doesn't give a damn about replacing?

Also...anyone here, a challenge for you. Name one factory system ever that can do idiotically loud SPL levels.  I've yet to ever hear one.

A Mark Levinson or Bose system is great for the driver who wants to hear every nuance of an Eric Johnson guitar solo or each individual instrument in a Handel concerto - however it's not going to be enough for the guy who's going to brag to his friends about how much his mirror shakes when the bass hits.  There are a ton of customers like that and none of them will ever be satisfied with a factory system.

There's business out there...you just have to know where to look for it.

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C Renner's Auto Electronix
My service is cheap, quick, and good - pick any two

Actually I was referring more to sq than sbl levels, adding a really high end amplifier, mids, tweeters and subwoofer will make ANY factory system pale in comparison.

There was a saying we would say when someone would brag about the new "bose system" they had, went something like this.."no highs no lows, must be bose"

Car manufacturers are always making it more difficult for aftermarket parts to fit.  I don't think they do it intentionally, but it happens.  Many higher end new cars (and some lower end) have fully integrated head units that can't easily be replaced.  Others have factory amplified systems that are costly to integrate with.  Then, there are things like the newer Infiniti Bose system - have you guys seen these things?  So much for the 'no highs, no lows must be Bose" saying!

I believe that is an OEM 10" speaker IN THE DOOR.  There is also a dedicated tweeter (may be a midrange, didn't look at it too close).  I have to admit, for a factory system this one sounded pretty good.  I can't imagine there would be many people willing to pay what it would cost to change this system.

While I had the door panel off I removed the speaker only to find it has no tradional magnet or basket.  There is NO Depth at all to mounting location.  The speaker looks like a dinner plate when you take it out!

It's already be said in this thread, but the future of people in this industry is going to be shops that do it all.  If you only do radios and alarms you probably won't last.  If you branch out to do mobile video, GPS, truck accessories, car accessories, heck maybe even wheels and tires you stand a much better chance of long term survival.  Where I'm at (Dayton, Ohio) the big box stores have killed the small shops.  Every so often a new ma and pa shop opens and lasts 2-3 years before going out of business.

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Kevin Pierson

Hmm. I never saw a speaker without a magnet, and I never hard my dinner plates reproduce music either.

I am no expert in speaker design, buy from what I have seen, the more speaker travel the better it performs and the better the magnet the more accurate the sound also.

The problem with these 'crappy" speakers is that they are made to fit the car instead of being made to produce the best possible sound, these car manufacturers buy millions and millions of speakers, and the "bean counters" try and shave off a buck here and there whereever they can.

Every system can be upgraded at the speaker level, by adding amps and processing and finally the best possible speakers, to say that people are happy with the sound of these "crappy systems" is just saying they have never compared it to whats possible.

It does have a magnet, just not a traditional magnet.

Like I said, for an OEM system it sounds great.  The head unit has a built in hard drive to rip music and the car has GPS from the factory.  As technology increases and things become cheaper you'll see systems like this in Honda Civics before much longer. 

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Kevin Pierson

Comon Kevin who's side are you on anyway, your an aftermarket installer, if you wanna be succesfull you MUST look at whats wrong with OEM not whats good with OEM.

Here is some more info about that OEM system:

The System
Studio on Wheels provides exceptional audio quality by combining a 3-way front door speaker system that uses 10-inch woofers with an audiophile quality head unit incorporating a 24-bit Burr Brown® digital audio converter.

To assure outstanding dynamic range with low distortion, the internal pre-amp incorporates Burr Brown® ultra low noise op-amps and other instrument grade components.

Studio on Wheels features 10 high-performance Bose neodymium speakers powered by a Bose eight channel amplifier which incorporates the company’s proprietary signal processing technology, specifically tuned for the G35 to deliver full lifelike sounds that fill every inch of the G’s interior.

The system delivers its high-range sound from two 1-inch neodymium tweeters located in each side mirror patch. Mid/high-range sound comes from three 3-inch neodymium speakers, one in each front door and one in the instrument panel. Low end sound is distributed throughout the cabin, with a 10-inch woofer in each front door plus a third on the rear deck powered by a dedicated two-state-modulation switching amplifier. The 6.5-inch, full-range neodymium speaker in each rear door rounds out a cohesive, balanced sound that seems to extend beyond the confines of the cabin.

For OEM, I think that is a pretty impressive setup.

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Kevin Pierson

I haven't installed audio equipement for years.  I consider myself unbiased before anything else. 

I guess I was just really impressed with this car.

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Kevin Pierson

Yadda, yadda, yadda, marketing CRAP, you dont need 10 speakers for outstanding sound, you just need 5 outstanding speakers and 1 or 2 outstanding amplifiers.. I could give you some hints, but bose is not one of them by a long shot.

Have you heard this car?  Have you sat in the front seat and listened?  Have you drove it around a bit and played with the system? 

I have.  It sounds great.  It doesn't have glass breaking lows by any means, but it has a good, rich sound with pretty good imaging.  It isn't a pefect setup by any means, but for 99.9% of owners it will do, especially when you start pricing replacing the system and all the custom work that it will take to fit new speakers in it.

Don't get me wrong, I realize this setup is the exception, and not the rule by a long shot.  But this one car proves that OEMs CAN build nice systems in to the car from the factory.  If installers and shop owners refuse to see that, and the trends that are coming, then they are going to be in a tough position in 3-5 years when even less new car owners are looking for audio upgrades.

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Kevin Pierson

I have heard these cars also, and they do not sound as good as the hype around them suggests, I am not saying they sound like a 1989 stock Chevy, but they are not high end as far as aftermarket is concerned.

BTW, I am not concerned in the least about what MIGHT happen in 3 to 5 years down the road, for all I know we will have audio chips implanted in our brains which give us the full spectrum of every frequency in the universe and a high powered receiver implanted in our rectum that can recieve information from other galaxies..

All I am saying is today and right now the aftermarket is ripe for success if the retailers can see what is available and tell customers how they can hear some great music.

and one more thing, the electronics industry in general is not something you can plan for years in advance, the best you can do is keep customers happy by having whats available, and run with WHATS AVAILABLE HERE NOW!!! thats my nich anyway.

at some point this system will have to be replaced maybe not the first owner but sometime down the line and OEM replacement will always carry a stupid mark up and labor.     something some of you are missing is that maybe a non-audiophile will buy/lease this car and instead of loosing a custumer,  the biz will gain a custumer from some one who had never experianced a good sound set up.  i got into this line of work because it was cool to put things in your car that where not there before in efforts to make your car unique and user-friendly not just to put speakers in.

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life is a comedy to think, a tragedy to feel