Printer Friendly Forum Posts - pro’s vs joe’s

I have a couple of dealers(anonymity requested) that kick down a sub or two every now and then for me to play with and provide feedback. I built a prototype fiber/mdf enclosure for my Frontier....I was 2 seconds from calling Memphis Audio and asking the reps why they are sticking their name on the reference series subs....reason: expectations not met to say the least...however..I put a 10lb cobble stone in the box...result: Improvement, then another..result: improvement, and then another..result: satisfied. 3(egg shaped, roughly the size of a CD) 10 pound river rocks in my box yielded the best overall sound from a sealed enclosure that we've heard from a single Reference 12" yet. Which sux for the Audio shop because hell will freeze over before they would try such a thing themselves. Now, its on! They are on a mission to drub The roxbox(R).
Keep in mind, results are based on popular opinion from idealistic preferred taste, all educated reasoning for the sound improvements that you guys are thinking right now....were explored and eliminated. Roxbox(R) I doubt anyone can contest it based off 1st hand experience!!!HAH

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This is what I do for FUN!

oh, here's a pic..
posted_image

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This is what I do for FUN!

So, you made beautiful bass, by stuffing the box full of rocks?

What the hell gave you the idea to try this in the first place?

Maybe a BIGGER box, and MORE rocks will sound even better?

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The rocks took up airspace made the box smaller?

You should stuff it with pollyfill so the sub thinks its a bigger box.

I agree the pr sub sounds like a high 55hz

The street edge by Memhis sounds way better and hits way lower.

The PRs in a big box do sound very good tho.

That box in the pic is way too small.

For small sealed boxes you need to use the M-class

*By the way that PR sub is 3years old?????
Not a new sub at all

Also What kind of amp and how many watts on the sub?

ianarian wrote:

Keep in mind, results are based on popular opinion from idealistic preferred taste, all educated reasoning for the sound improvements that you guys are thinking right now....were explored and eliminated. Roxbox(R) I doubt anyone can contest it based off 1st hand experience!!!HAH

I'm calling BS! Nobody's taste is more "idealistic" than mine... (Maybe jfinks and DYohn, but I know I'm on their level at any rate.) I spent YEARS and THOUSANDS getting to where I am now in my car - reference quality reproduction that rivals my home system. I should have just dumped rocks in my doors, and used Audiobahn while they were still in business... All "educated reasoning" DID NOT involve mental examinations. Your "Magic Cobblestones" are either:

A: Simply occupying volume in an enclosure that was too large, (this is most likely)

or

B: You WANTED it to sound better, so it did.

For more perfect examples of this particular "phenomena", please do me a favor and Google "Shun Mook", "Shakti Stone", "Welborne Labs", "MIT Cables", "Acoustic Zen", "Tara Labs", "Nordost", "Alpha Core", "Siltech"... If you want more, PLEASE ask me, I can sell you (and I DO mean LITERALLY) THOUSANDS of snake oils for "HiFi Audio". Thousands of dollars that you can send to me to pay my electric bill, and I will simply TELL you that your system sounds better... and because you are cash-out-of-pocket, you will instantly hear magic in your music.

Dude... The stones did nothing but change the volume of an enclosure a small percentage, which is a perfect example of how critical the correct volume is to get the best performance from your driver. There MAY have been a small amount of some labyrinthine acoustic modification going on in there, but I doubt it was enough to affect it to the heights you so glowingly describe.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

I just sent your post to Memphis and thay said they will start sending Rocks with all the PR subs in assorted packs. lol

but what if you don't LIKE rock music? posted_image

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DYohn] wrote:

but what if you don't LIKE rock music?

ROTFL!!!

I guess now it "hits hard"?

My guess is that the box was loose and was loosing a lot of power because it was NEVER properly secured! The stones just added weight to keep the box from rattling.
The Memphis M1 is also only 150RMS.

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Im not a ROCKER,what if your a rapper would you use saran wrap??? LOL

that is the mos ghetto thing ive ever heard of as far as subboxes go,although i did see someone who used a plastic kool -aid pithcer to house an 8" sub

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-A vision without a plan is just a hallucination-

+1 The stones changed the volume of the enclosure and how important enclosure size is. Dealers/installers do this all the time, but with other materials, typically lumber, that can be easily mounted inside the enclosure. If you were to determine the volume of your river rocks and you replaced them with the same volume of MDF, it would sound the same and weigh less ;)

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posted_image

the12volt • Support the12volt.com

i dont have any rivers near my house where can i go upon purchasing some river rocks for my system? posted_image

Roxbox?? posted_image

please dont say your going to try and market someting stupid like a box with "rocks" in it and try and call it a "Roxbox".

"Hey man, check out my new Roxbox!!! It ROCKS!!" (literally)

Anybody wanna design a single-long-crystal, silver wire-wound alternator with/for me? We can go to extremes and gold-plate the case, but the case'll have to be something exotic, too... Say Tungsten or Platinum. Lead-filled case walls for damping - can't let any vibrations get into in those expendy windings! Air bearings? Good, fast-recovery diodes in the bridge? Good Lord in Heaven, I'd be a bazillionaire overnight! A 17 kilobuck alternator! Mark my words, there WILL be an "Audiophile Alternator" at the CES soon. DYohn, et al, you will be my witness... Haemphyst thought of it first! 07.24.2009 Where's MY ROYALTIES?!?! For those of you that vouch, I'll share.

Sure all this is perfect, but worthless if you don't put AVGAS in the tank! I'm just sayin'... Seems to follow the same logic as a $3000 dollar power cord, or "Audiophile Outlets". Yes, they exist!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

icearrow6 wrote:

[QUOTE=DYohn]

My guess is that the box was loose and was loosing a lot of power because it was NEVER properly secured! The stones just added weight to keep the box from rattling.
The Memphis M1 is also only 150RMS.

Good point Ice

Uff this really is a new one I've never heard. Rocks in the box? Crazy stuff I tell ya.

My front yard is a river...$10 bucks a truck load...Mounting of the sub-box should normally be incorporated in all systems...No joke about the river...!

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

mike swanson wrote:

I just sent your post to Memphis and thay said they will start sending Rocks with all the PR subs in assorted packs. lol

No more FREE shipping....

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HAHa dam, nice, I love the feedback. Airspace...wow..ya geez, why didnt I think of that..cmon....I WISH I didnt know any better. Amp, box and a booming I go, those were the good ol days. Knowledge is costly. Speakers on a 4ch amp bridged 240x2 , subs a dual 4.

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This is what I do for FUN!

LOL bolt down...deeper man deeper..marketing? Nooo I dont want money...thats free advice for the industry, Im non-profit based...

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This is what I do for FUN!

The 3rd rock was the airspace clincher YES.... but before rock I tried MDF, oak, pine and pressure treated all in a multitude of volumes. With poly batting, without batting, reversed polarity, inverted, 3 different brands/wattages of class D amps, LP coils wound several different ways, LP rca inline filters in 5 different frequency's. I was hoping for a suggestion that I havnt tried. Iasca has judged 4 vehicles I've been honored to fine tune, (which aint saying much) but they believed my interpretation of the mobile standard was flawless to the human ear.(BFD considering source, but nice to hear) THX, IMSA Level 1&2, Light Brigade Fiber Optic, Bang and Olufsen, Arc, Nortel, Nextel and 3M certifications ranging in design, consultation, maintenance and installation, as well as NJATC/NEMA Journeyman degree's by trade in Pro A/V, Traffic Signal and Sound&Communication. Ya, I need science to prove that my ears and knowledge are playing a joke on me.

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This is what I do for FUN!

You have that sort of background yet you think the acoustic properties of stones inside your enclosure are having some sort of magical effect? I smell something normally associated with cattle in pastures...

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DYohn] wrote:

I smell something normally associated with cattle in pastures...

Shrooms?

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soundnsecurity wrote:

DYohn] wrote:

I smell something normally associated with cattle in pastures...

Shrooms?

That was awesome...Back to boxrox...? You said you tried different stuff...Were any as heavy as the rocks...Even so...Couldnt you only reproduce the exact situation you have...Same box...amp...size,shape,weight of rocks...? Anyhow...Have you guys ever seen the book of japanese inventions that never quite made it...The laminated news paper...The suction cup head brace for bus/subway...Etc...Think we have a new entry...? I applaud you on your Umphh...But seriously...BoxRox...LOL

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

ianarian wrote:

The 3rd rock was the airspace clincher YES.... but before rock I tried MDF, oak, pine and pressure treated all in a multitude of volumes. With poly batting, without batting, reversed polarity, inverted, 3 different brands/wattages of class D amps, LP coils wound several different ways, LP rca inline filters in 5 different frequency's. I was hoping for a suggestion that I havnt tried. Iasca has judged 4 vehicles I've been honored to fine tune, (which aint saying much) but they believed my interpretation of the mobile standard was flawless to the human ear.(BFD considering source, but nice to hear) THX, IMSA Level 1&2, Light Brigade Fiber Optic, Bang and Olufsen, Arc, Nortel, Nextel and 3M certifications ranging in design, consultation, maintenance and installation, as well as NJATC/NEMA Journeyman degree's by trade in Pro A/V, Traffic Signal and Sound&Communication. Ya, I need science to prove that my ears and knowledge are playing a joke on me.

I change my vote... Option 1.

Dude. Believe me... I have been there, and I have done that... I can't (and really... DON'T) believe that iASCA judges have said that "they believed your interpretation of the mobile standard was flawless to the human ear". If they did, then why are there NO mentions of this "flawless interpretation" anywhere? There aren't any to be found, because there aren't any that exist.

I also have had iASCA judges sit in my car - jfinks, a member of this very forum - and he never mentioned stuffing my TL with rocks. There are other iASCA SQ competitors here - dwarren is one of them (I think he's an SQ competitor - if he's not, I apologize, I thought he was) and he never mentioned getting spanked by the RoxBox.

Dude, seriously... It sounded better, because you wanted it to sound better. The VERY granular tuning of volume for your enclosure, allowing fine tuning of the Q; the density and mass of the rocks preventing vibration in the volume; the psychoacoustic properties that I am CERTAIN were there in at least SOME small fashion...

It ain't magic - it's science and psychology... That's all.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

ianarian wrote:

HAHa dam, nice, I love the feedback. Airspace...wow..ya geez, why didnt I think of that..cmon....I WISH I didnt know any better. Amp, box and a booming I go, those were the good ol days. Knowledge is costly. Speakers on a 4ch amp bridged 240x2 , subs a dual 4.

So the subs are @ 8ohm per ch?
If you have them x2 your amp cant run them any lower. So 240w @ 8ohm?????????
Also Why are you testing 2007 Subs?
They have changed since then. They dont even look like that now.

*When the amp is bridged 4ch-2ch, minimum impedance is 4ohm/ch, the sub has dual 4 ohm coils... *Iasca ID #10969 IDBL stk-1. Dont tell. *Everything I get is usually a past model, most still brand new. *Some of your advices I hold in the highest regard, no disrespect. I took out the rocks for a couple days. Had to put em back in. Thanks for trying to talk sense fellas, I'll be getting a new sub soon. *Roxbox 3000G series originated as a temp weight to maintain contour on 1st layer of glass on interior carpets.
*The 3500G Converted series will feature polished rocks with HD magnified viewing window. 2.9% discount to all the12volt members.

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This is what I do for FUN!

ianarian wrote:

*When the amp is bridged 4ch-2ch, minimum impedance is 4ohm/ch, the sub has dual 4 ohm coils... *Iasca ID #10969 IDBL stk-1. Dont tell. *Everything I get is usually a past model, most still brand new. *Some of your advices I hold in the highest regard, no disrespect. I took out the rocks for a couple days. Had to put em back in. Thanks for trying to talk sense fellas, I'll be getting a new sub soon. *Roxbox 3000G series originated as a temp weight to maintain contour on 1st layer of glass on interior carpets.
*The 3500G Converted series will feature polished rocks with HD magnified viewing window. 2.9% discount to all the12volt members.

THAT IS YOUR RESPONCE?

The point to the ohms is that you ran 1 sub on this 4ch amp @ 8ohms for near no power. To me a less powered sub should be in a smaller ported box with NO ROCKS

Why test old subs? What good is that to any1?
They should give you the new subs to test.

Micheal!...did you do your homework...lets take a look..all ratings here are at 4 ohm. Im using option 1, except both coils are on 1 sub. The amp peaks at 1000w..Option 4 is peak power, the least resistance possible-120x4@2ohm + 240x2@4ohm=1000w +/-....I agree, they outta gimme new stuff to test...except they do it themselves with their current installs. Opiniarian, Memphis as a brand, needs to offer more to the less affluent enthusiasts.

posted_image

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This is what I do for FUN!

test this, measure the exact volume of those rocks and then build an identical enclosure minus the airspace of the rocks and see how that sounds.

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Wow...So this is really not a joke...BoxRox, Had to put the stones back in...! Why again do they have you test old subs...I didnt quite follow...? What should Memphis Do...?

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

I cant speak negatively about a product that I receive from a friend/shop owner that has it sitting on their shelves. That sub in the pic was used as my topic's example. Roxbox? Next: Tree trunk box!! The ref series is clean, and good at low volume. I would like to see Memphis crank it up a notch for the folk who cant afford the big guns. If I wanted that level of sound in a sub, I'd be using a 8" in another brand-for same price and half the space.I

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This is what I do for FUN!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfddbRcMoA&feature=related

dont know if we parental control on this link or not

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This is what I do for FUN!

ckeeler wrote:

Roxbox??
please dont say your going to try and market someting stupid like a box with "rocks" in it and try and call it a "Roxbox".
"Hey man, check out my new Roxbox!!! It ROCKS!!" (literally)

A man YEARS back marketed a rock all by itself.... the pet rock. He ended up making millions! maybe he's on to something huh?

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Can I get a job? Im a great rock selector!!!!lol have you tried different types of rocks yet?maybe some quartz or obsidian?lava rock is perforated that might act as pillow stuffing!!!Maybe you could throw in some fools gold to attract some of the hip hop crowd ,it would be like the shiny gold tooth of the ROXBOX!!!!.Have we beat this horse to death yet or should I keep swinging

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-A vision without a plan is just a hallucination-

Roxbox Inc.(R) and all known affiliates practice a no tolerance policy for animal cruelty.

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This is what I do for FUN!

Well, like i said, the river is my front yard...Let me know...And BTW...You had the sub box mounted, while you were testing different fillers...?

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

ianarian wrote:

HAHa dam, nice, I love the feedback. Airspace...wow..ya geez, why didnt I think of that..cmon....I WISH I didnt know any better. Amp, box and a booming I go, those were the good ol days. Knowledge is costly. Speakers on a 4ch amp bridged 240x2 , subs a dual 4.

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

ianarian wrote:

LOL bolt down...deeper man deeper..marketing? Nooo I dont want money...thats free advice for the industry, Im non-profit based...

How can we give you marketing advice...? Not one person,so far, has been on the RoxBox side...! Like Dyohn said...W/ your background...Cant you go back to the ppl that trained/taught you for some guidance/help...? I dont think you are going to get many "Marketing " ideas from something noone believes in...There has been specific questions w/ loosely based answers...Or comments like "cmon...lol..." Why not just get legitamized by the very judges that commend you on your EARS...(IASCA...ETC)

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

ianarian wrote:

Micheal!...did you do your homework...lets take a look..all ratings here are at 4 ohm. Im using option 1, except both coils are on 1 sub. The amp peaks at 1000w..Option 4 is peak power, the least resistance possible-120x4@2ohm + 240x2@4ohm=1000w +/-....I agree, they outta gimme new stuff to test...except they do it themselves with their current installs. Opiniarian, Memphis as a brand, needs to offer more to the less affluent enthusiasts.

I asked you what ohm you were runnin your sub and you DID NOT TELL ME A #

YOU STILL HAVENT

You can only run the sub at 2 or 8 ohm all i ask was which of the 2 are you runnin the sub?

Or are you runnin 1 coil only
A simple Q

Im guessin that you have 1 coil bridged per ch

I can see a new line of subs coming out from MB Quartz. After reading all of this..... how's about a nice game of paper rock scissors so we can let it die....

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

Alright, we can quit playing with the topic. I totally appreciate everyone's opinion and concern to comment. Memphis is good from a dealers perspective, but I wont be using it anymore. I would of liked to hear more success stories from users about how they are satisfied with results and how they achieved them. Too many manufacturer's are cashing in on the naive consumers out there that just dont know any better. We all got a laugh when hearing Alpine's 2003 demo Civic Si. Fiberglass and Mass production product combo. Looks great! As long as people keep buying their speakers, demo cars will be made.
posted_image

On a different note: My new sub is a Aura 12,000 RPM, whatever that means. Now, we are talkin, back in business. I dont know cost differences between the two...but this thing sounds frickin good. Instantly, that feeling of satisfaction sets in. There is nothing visually stimulating about it. No fancy colors or logo's. Just a sick @$$ speaker, that I've never seen used and never hear about. Diamound Audio and Aura are products that stand out. DA's SPL - Aura SQ. These other large companies bully their product through the dealers and customers end up getting the blunt end. Thats my view from sitting on both sides of the table. Mr. Swanson, the Memphis was a DVC 4OHM/coil. "Im guessin that you have 1 coil bridged per ch" No, I dont know how to do that.....I have 2ch bridged per coil posted_image

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This is what I do for FUN!

tommy... wrote:

ianarian wrote:

LOL bolt down...deeper man deeper..marketing? Nooo I dont want money...thats free advice for the industry, Im non-profit based...

How can we give you marketing advice...? Not one person,so far, has been on the RoxBox side...! Like Dyohn said...W/ your background...Cant you go back to the ppl that trained/taught you for some guidance/help...? I dont think you are going to get many "Marketing " ideas from something noone believes in...There has been specific questions w/ loosely based answers...Or comments like "cmon...lol..." Why not just get legitamized by the very judges that commend you on your EARS...(IASCA...ETC)

Yes the same thing here he likes to talk like he knows it all and never answers.
I like how he picks me out cuz I asked him what ohm load he was runnin and he post a diagram. wth? He cant even figure out an ohm load?

Im done with this and I will be more conscience about who I try to help. I sell Memphis and was just tryin to help. What a waste of time that was