national network of installers

Hey Gang,

I'm in the process of launching a product that let's you start your car with your phone (like the Viper SmartStart system but better), which will have internet-based sales, including the remote start and/or alarm systems that would pair up with the device.

Ideally, I would like to build a network of installers that could handle all local installs within a certain radius of where they live.

Due to the nature of the startup, I couldn't directly hire installers all across the nation simultaneously, so it'd need to be contract labor, paid per job. This might not be ideal for some, but I know there are a lot of people out there without a job that would jump at the chance for some extra cash, so do you guys have any recommendations on the best place to get started with that?

The thought had crossed my mind that I could contact local trade schools to get in contact with students in fields related to car electronics installations who might be looking for side work, but I also don't know how I'd go about ensuring these people would be good representatives of my company.

And for that matter, I'm not sure what would be the best way to handle compensation. I would like to pay a flat fee per install, but at the same time, I want to encourage quality work, done right the first time. So if I paid a flat fee, it seems like it'd encourage installers to cut corners, but yet if I paid hourly, I don't know of any way to verify that the time was actually needed or that work was actually performed for that amount of time. (I've heard that average remote starter installs take between 2-3 hours, with worst-case scenarios reaching into the 8-hour mark.)

On top of that, I've seen figures for average hourly rates range from $13/hr to $26/hr, and I'd like input on how fair that seems to you all.

Any helpful feedback the members of the 12volt Forum could provide would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,
Tim G.

This should be a text book example of how not to start a business.
Hey gang?
You pay per job subject to customer satisfaction after 3-4 weeks.
You will also need auditors for the jobs to keep up standards.
You are going to employ people straight out of schools? Cynical laughter.
You will also have to set standards, material type even down to specifying or supplying your installers, Scotch 33+, fuseholders, cable, sleeving etc.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

howie ll wrote:

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This should be a text book example of how not to start a business.

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I haven't started that section of the business yet, and my intent was to bounce ideas off the experts here on the forum (a.k.a. the gang). Criticism and cynicism aside though, I do appreciate your feedback and suggestions.

Cheers,
Tim G.

Interesting to say the least. I would like to check out what you are offering for a product. As for how to find a network of people that will be difficult but isn't there a section on here for installers to post up their info?
As for pay you will have a hard time on flat rate as no 2 cars are built the same and no 2 installers install the same. Take for instance an installer in remote start area can do the install in under 2 hours. A installer that almost never sees one will take much longer. Also shop hourly rates will be different across the country. I know shops that charge over $100 an hour.
I know some of the greatest installers across the country. I don't think a flat rate would work with any of them.
I would like to see more about this product and how you are selling it before I would allow it to be installed at any shop I work for.
Feel free to send me any info you may have so that I may look into this further.

I with the list of installers here and installer net, that could be a great way to start with installers.

I would be interested in seeing what you are offering as well

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Mobile Electronics professional since 1995

x2 with auto enhancers about flat rates.
Having said that I usually do flat rates, as an example where this falls flat I installed a 9200i Parrot in an 08 Passat today.
I dropped the sun visor to discover that instead of self taps, the machine screws go into captive nuts, one of which went by-by.
I then had to drop the whole front roof lining, change the screw to a self tap and managed to get a plastic insert up, there, a job (running the Mic.) which takes 10 minutes on a BMW took 1 1/2 hours.


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

So any updates on this?

auto enhancers wrote:

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So any updates on this?

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Boy, 6:30a.m. on a Sunday? You're either hardcore or in a different time zone than I am! lol

Anyway, I apologize for not following up sooner. That's what I get for flagging emails for followup and then letting them disappear out of sight in my inbox.

auto enhancers wrote:

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Interesting to say the least. I would like to check out what you are offering for a product.

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The website is Click-Vroom.com, though I'll be quick to apologize in advance for the half-assed state it's in currently. I recently ran into issues with my previous web hosting service (don't ever user MyDomain.com) and lost the entire site, which they said was unrecoverable, so I've had to switch providers and try to piece things back together again from what few source files I had backed up locally (lesson learned), which I'm still in the process of doing. So it's very much in transition at the moment, but should at least give you a lot of the basic information you're looking for.

In a nutshell though, from an installation standpoint, this is simply a remote starter install just like any other. My product simply acts as a bridge between one of the remotes to the system and the user (via a smartphone app, SMS text, or the web) and is as easy to install as mounting it and plugging it in.

In fact, it can work with any remote starter system out there, which I think is a big benefit for those of us who already have remote starters installed, which is exactly why I designed it as an add-on product.

And the best part is that it's free to use for life - a price barrier I'm proud to have finally overcome. No contracts, no service fees, no usage fees. Just plain free ...unless you want premium features like alarm notification to your phone, which requires the unit to send data out instead of just receiving it, but even then, it'd break the bank at about 10 cents per notification (and the unit already comes with a $15 credit).

auto enhancers wrote:

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isn't there a section on here for installers to post up their info?

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Is there? I'll have to do some digging and find out.

auto enhancers wrote:

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As for pay you will have a hard time on flat rate as no 2 cars are built the same and no 2 installers install the same.

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Point taken. What are your thoughts on hourly rates and maximum time limits?

auto enhancers wrote:

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I know shops that charge over $100 an hour.

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While I have no doubt that these guys know what they're doing, unless they work really quickly, I don't see how this would be feasible or how they could even expect that much. I'd have a hard time paying a fully trained and certified mechanic that much.

ptannjr wrote:

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I with the list of installers here and installer net, that could be a great way to start with installers.

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Thank you for your input. I definitely appreciate the feedback. I looked into InstallerNet.com, and at least on Amazon, the installs were $200 each which does seem pricey, especially for a product that doesn't have any customer reviews (yet?).

Maybe I'm just being a cheap-ass, but the more costs I can reduce, the lower the price tag I can offer my customers. And everybody likes to save as much money as possible, right? Still though, it's nice to know that option is available, and I'll definitely be looking into the list of installers that's lurking around here somewhere. The closest thing I've found so far is the Employment Forum, which this post might actually belong in, come to think of it.

howie II wrote:

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x2 with auto enhancers about flat rates.
Having said that I usually do flat rates, as an example where this falls flat...

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I'm definitely on-board with an hourly rate vs. a flat fee - out of fairness to the installer and the desire for a good, quality install every time - but even if I were to hire auditors to inspect the finished product, I'm not sure how I could monitor how much time was actually put into a job and whether it was actually needed. Any thoughts on that?

In any case, I very much appreciate all your guys' feedback. It's most helpful.

Cheers,
Tim G.

Um Im gonna probally burst your bubble a bit here when it comes to the price of installs. I live in Edmonton, Alberta where an install for a remote starter with smartstart on a 2010 Chev truck is gonna run $415 bucks labour and $50 in shop parts plus the price of the product and the bypass. At those prices in the winter time I am booking approx a month behind for like 4 months of the year at least most years. So thats a very popular vehicle up here and one thats quite easy for an installer who knows what they are doing to do. So with that said if you try to launch a product up here and offer me 150-200 to do the job I am gonna polietly decilne and go back into my shop.

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer

That's quite alright, I appreciate your feedback. Personally, as a consumer, I can tell you I'd never pay $415+ for a remote starter install, and I can only assume my future customers wouldn't either. But it does at least sound like you've got plenty of business on your hands, so I say more power to ya. You must be making a killing.

-Tim G.

Ya its simply what the market here dictates, and to be fair most people on here wouldnt pay that cause they know how to do the job. Many of my customers come in and just want the job done. Dont get me wrong we do lots of installs where its more basic, say an install bill of about 250 bucks for the starter, bypass and doorlocks. My point was though that I have worked in other markets and KNOW how much it veries from place to place. And because of that a nation wide install program based on any type of flat rate pay simply isnt feasible in my opinion.

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer

That's an interesting point that I'll have to keep in mind.

With that said, what are your thoughts on programs such as InstallerNet.com or Best Buy's own prepaid installation services? Obviously the hardware will be model-specific, but in terms of the hourly rates, these companies seem to be operating with a flat fee structure. (I've heard that Best Buy's installers provide spotty service at best, but that's probably beside the point.)

Actually it isn't beside the point quite simple really and greed driven.
The companies that pay me the most and back me up are the ones who when they ask me to jump, I'll ask them how high.
And naturally when I'm busy with the goodies I'll be much too busy for the cheapskates.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I would be interested but not for hourly.  I would do piece work.

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Gary Sather

My question may have backtracked a bit with regard to my earlier statement about being on-board with hourly rates as opposed to flat fees (and again, for the sake of a good, quality install, I'm still on-board with that notion), but the fact that these companies would be capable of a flat fee structure on a nation-wide basis is interesting.

I suppose the spotty service might be indicative of a bad approach, but then again, it could also just be indicative of bad hiring practices and/or quality control.

Obviously there will be outliers, but I would find it hard to believe that there isn't an average installation time and rate, especially when even you (howie II) concede that you normally charge flat fees. Surely you're not saying that's greed-driven too, are you?

Regardless of fees vs. hourly rate, the heart of the matter is that I'd like to be able to offer installation services to my customers instead of just selling them a product and telling them they're on their own, and I'm trying to work out the best way to go about doing that.

I suppose I could compile a database of installers in various parts of the country and then refer people to installers in their area, with rates and reviews listed for each installer. That is, ideally, I'd like be able to include installation in a package deal so that my customers know what to expect and aren't surprised by an installation that costs double what the product itself does, but from what I'm hearing, that may not be possible if standard installation costs vary, based on location. (Which is exactly why I'm glad I brought it up on this forum.)

Any additional thoughts or opinions on the matter are welcome.

OK, flat rate with exceptions?
Remember with fuel prices here I'm adding 60p (90c) per mile to the costs.
I'm doing a Euro Cat 1 alarm on an Audi today, it's local so no mileage but he wants headlights hi and low together on arm and trunk release.
That's 3 extra relays, diodes, cable and fuses on top of the £100 ($150) flat rate.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.