soldering vs crimping

Well I started wiring up ol betsy tonite,  and she's all tuckered out.  Not to mention ne,  last cigarette, last cigarette, one before i go to bed. 

Well folks I spent 2 hours looking for that old Auto Zone crimper,  and it probably ended up with atht $20 floor jack.  WTH happened to that thing??  So I started just crimpin away with old connectors getting used to my new ,  and greusom past.  I dunno if i just matured,  or maybe somthing from my Government Motorola training?  but the crimper just looked like a shark attack.  The wire kit only came with a few bits (the gold bling) so i picked up a assortment of the crappy stuff and grabed some wire from the band room and there I was.  Like a freakin manic or somthin.  I think it was the 6th Monster energy drink of the day and I wasnt quite sure what I was doing.  Yet none the less,  I discovered I dont like crimping anymore.  Its sloppy,  the plastic gets all chewy.  and gosh darnit!  It just looks too high school to me.  My friend is into Hydrolics and low rider stuff and he sat there and talked to me about how you have to make your own crimping tool to be legit.  wth??? really?  Ok,  whats the deal,  while hes all that and his 200 batterys in his trunk bouncin doen the road jive turkey,  Im just sittin' here with my little 100 watt amp,  with nicely soldered, cleaned and inspected under magnifying glass for pits and loose flow.  Everything looks really really nice.  CLEAN!  but wait Am I allowed to solder for car audio?  is ther a difference?ation,   hmm.  well,  i like the look to go back now.  But before I start benching this amp,  better ask the expers first.  So,  any takers?  Do I go back and cut off all the solder,  and crimp the ends, connectors etc?  When I was tightening the hex nuts they sure seemed squeeky snug,  the solder was still warm because I used a pen torch to get it hot for easy flow.  That wire soaked up my silver solder like a buttermilk bisqut an mamas red beans n rice.  (ha! my moms native american,  we ate tacos)  I was trained inAZ many years back to solder government projects like space, satelitte communications,  and of course,  weapon navigation.  bwahhahaha!  So I can do some serious soldering!  but is this the wrong application,  seems good to me.  OK you sleep on that,  I'm gonna do the same.  Bright and early tommorrow,  going to start the wiring of the vehicle,  Battery terminals,  fuse,  big kahuna wire the size of... well   my  thumb. 

Peace and dreams of sugar ants...or somthing like that. 

-Myonus

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Be not guided by morality, but rather, integrity.

It's an old question.

The only definite I have is that if doing both, you crimp first and then solder.

Many or most will say solder. I'd qualify that by adding that the soldering must give adequate mechanical strength which isn't always the case for BIG terminals in vibrating environments - hence the crimp first (for mechanical) and then solder (for electrical).

But for small signal connections - solder (at least). Small signal means that the tiniest of oxidation etc can greatly effect the signal. (EG - RCA connectors, alarm or ECU etc interface & sensor connections.)

Small connectors may have the same issue, especially if not crimped properly.
And many alarm etc installers will holler "solder!".


But solderless can also work fine. I noted (again) recently how many of my vehicle joints are merely crimped and they still work flawlessly after 45 years. These are things like starter cables, headlight and fuse wiring, even gauges.
However I think the thing to note there is that "proper" crimpers were used.


Traditionally I've been like you... I disliked the common spade & other crimp terminals (with red, blue & yellow "wire gauges"). I thought they were mechanically weak, electrically suspect, and looked bad.
However I now realise that my crimps using such terminals have given little problem. The usual problem is when the cable stiffens and breaks off (which is why the crimps were used in the first place).
And that's with a plain common "flat" crimping and stripping tool (but not like the 2nd cheap thin one I also have that can't even crimp without warping off the terminal!). Of course I have my own crimping technique, and the crimp actually looks kind-of good...

I have been meaning to get a proper ratchet-type crimper for those terminals & joiners to well and truly ensure connection reliability (and better looks), but that still hasn't happened.


IMO one negative aspect with soldering is the shrinking or melting or stiffening of adjacent insulation - especially when soldering heavy gauge cable.
I also question the impact on metal (cable) hardening and strength when I have to solder big cables with my flame thrower.    


Sorry, that's no straight answer, but I think it's another one of those horses for courses situations - and I haven't even discussed environments aside maybe from vibration - eg, tropical or polar.
The one piece of advice I do disagree with is solder first, then crimp.


PS - metal to metal isn't always a good electrical contact.
Several years after my car's engine rebuild I started having high-voltage problems. I noted that gauges and my HU were subject to over-voltage.
The problem - the 2 heavy GND cables that were attached to the block with a 16mm bolt (with 24mm hex head). It was still tighter than I could (almost) undo so surely that was NOT the problem. But it was - I measured voltage differences of ~2V!    
I dismantled the lot and all looked fine. Not shiny, but not heavily oxidised nor obviously contaminated. So I cleaned (with thinners?) and used a file or emery paper on all contact surfaces and then reassembled the lot. No more problems! Unfortunately by then I had blown the faceplate of my Alpine HU, but otherwise the Alpine worked fine, so I assume I hit "body" voltages of around 16V.

FYI - be aware that the above problem occurred when I was still running (mere 25A or 35A) alternators with external body-mounted voltage regulators. I have since migrated to internal regulated units which usually cannot have that problem - in part due to the vreg being internal, but additionally because some/many modern alternators won't put out more than ~15.5V to 16V even if their external (battery voltage) Sense wire comes adrift.
The point however was that even a heavy solid mechanical joint that I considered should not have any conduction problems DID in fact have bad conduction. And I've had a lot of experience with bad electrical connections - whether marine, domestic, vehicular, tropical, sub-zero, or some of the people I talk to on here .
Yep - bed time in ~4 hours.

oldspark wrote:

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It's an old question.

The only definite I have is that if doing both, you crimp first and then solder. .............................

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Yep - bed time in ~4 hours.

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Well You didnt have to say it twice! Ffaster than a Jackalope can steal your 555 timer, this morning I was acid flux in one hand cold chiseled in the other.  Unfortunately I was ratted out so I had to move my lil project back out to the laundry room.  Worse than getting caught soldering and surfing the internet at the same time is:

Hearing those famous words; just one more freakin time........."MOM! DAD HAS THE BLOW TORCH IN THE HOUSE AGAIN, AND HE'S ON THE INTERNET!"

damn traitors.........

I have a new issue regarding open PCB and how I can filter out any noise that may arise as instalation progresses.   But that is a different topic.  And I may be soldering all frikin day.  Don't tell mom what i soldered to her beloved scroll mouse. 

- MYONUS

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Be not guided by morality, but rather, integrity.

I loved your post sunshine but here I am, its 25f outside and I'm doing an R/S in a Beemer and guess what my Weller Pyropens just gave me the 1000 yard stare and jumped back into their case positions so out comes the Weller Gun, I still won't crimp except terminals for pin switches, relays and grounding ring terminals. And if it's for show, heat shrink sleeving over it.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

They are all for show....          ( no crimp, only solder under that heat shrink tube )

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Soldering is fun!

Oh, I've got an excuse, 160 mile round trip to the job and back through a hailstorm, 41f at the start , down to 35f a mile or two in.
I'm tired and I'm going to watch Arsenal get slaughtered on the TV, good night.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Yea,  i crimped,  then soldered,  then crimped again,  the wth.  soldered again....  now I feel like soldering the whole darn house!.  Wheres that blow torch boy?! and hand me my cigarrette lighter,  let me show you how to do it "OLD SCHOOL"

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Be not guided by morality, but rather, integrity.

Oh there you go again, my definition of old school, what's a DMM, I can still test most things with my good old Snap-On test light and probably a lot faster but then I know what to look for.
And let's face it being in the trade, I can always borrow that $10k diagnostic gear.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Ive always jest tested wit my tounge,  that's how dad did it,  and i think its worked out pretty well so far.  Like jest last harvest moon; out by the trailer, testtin that 120 by the feed light.  weeew doggie,  i felt a pinch that day.

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Be not guided by morality, but rather, integrity.

myonus wrote:

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Ive always jest tested wit my tounge, that's how dad did it

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LOL - that makes me think of how during one year, 3 people were killed by a 9V battery, and I believe that was thru tongue testing. (Australian Bureau of Statistics)

oldspark wrote:

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myonus wrote:

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Ive always jest tested wit my tounge, that's how dad did it

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LOL - that makes me think of how during one year, 3 people were killed by a 9V battery, and I believe that was thru tongue testing. (Australian Bureau of Statistics)

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Well i'm sure the question on everyones mind is:

were the people in series or parallel??   bwahha hahahahha

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Be not guided by morality, but rather, integrity.

THAT'S NOT FUNNY!

This is VERY series-ous.

Ha ha two. Let's hope the mods think so too.


And here I am expecting the usual "That's ridiculous - how could 9V kill?!" (except during surgery).
I suspect it was when they hit the ground after falling off the ladder. (Here they used to run ads during the New Year to check smoke alarm batteries. Now they run them at every Daylight-Savings time change. If my non-fancy batteries last over 4 years, I can imaging some getting a great kick from their 6 month old batteries. Maybe some have pacemakers...?) And FYI, in Sweden that would be classed as a suicide.

As they say, death is the biggest kick of all - that's why they save it till last.

oldspark wrote:

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THAT'S NOT FUNNY!

This is VERY series-ous.

Ha ha two. Let's hope the mods think so too. .

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Watt do you think was surging through thier brains?  They must have been amped on somthing to discgarge them into the amplitude of alternating behavior!

is that 5 or 6?  i used amp twice.  booo  thats a  -1 penalty,  so,  that makes 4.  im good with that. 

Last Lager and im off to bed. 

And btw,  if anyone needs a heat sink for TO-220,  I have 20 of them coming from Hong Kong.  (yea,  that was before i decided to just get the pre-made VR)

Cheers,  till next topic!

myonus

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Be not guided by morality, but rather, integrity.

Repeating amp is fine. I have often written how you can never have AMPle amps.   


BTW - I'm glad this is YOUR thread. Usually this only happens with OP's threads (as in Other Peoples' - that famous brand of cigarettes), and that's considered hijacking.
Nevertheless, there is still an etiquette and The Rules that we shall conform too.
But we are both well behaved scholarly gentlemen...


Sleep well. May you have pleasant and maybe inspiration dreams about your setup as you sail thru heavenly streets; knowing too how safe you are (you have a 12V battery and they don't kill - it's only 9V batteries that kill - our statistics prove it!).