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myth on soldering!

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Mobile Electronics Questions and Answers
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=13566
Printed Date: May 14, 2024 at 4:18 AM


Topic: myth on soldering!

Posted By: techker
Subject: myth on soldering!
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 12:22 PM

let see what other installers think of soldering!

many people say that soldering is awast of thime?if you no how to make a good conecting ,it is the same?

and they say that when you solder speaker wire,you can loose frequences ?

afther all solder is not a 100% conducter?

people think   installer/solder ???
what do you think?posted_image



Replies:

Posted By: TomEllis
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 12:30 PM
I like to solder ALL of my connections.

I have not heard the speaker wire theory, what frequencies would you loose?
even wire is NOT a 100% conductor, that is why there is a resistance per foot rating on them.

Just my input.
Tom
posted_image




Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 12:31 PM
I'll answer your question with a question....................... are the frequencies you loose going to be audible by the human ear ? If not, solder away to your hearts content as it is a more solid connection ( if done properly ) than a butt connector or crimp connector. *** Everyone has their own method of connections and there is no incorrect way of doing it. It may not be sanctioned by all installer's but the end result is the same. ****

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA




Posted By: Blazermedic
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 1:16 PM
I solder the connections on my own car, but I use crimp connectors when I'm doing installs at work. Solder is time consuming and not condusive to working in confined areas. I haven't ever measured any kind of frequency response in solder vs. crimp, but this has certain piqued my interest.

Cary

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Posted By: esmith69
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 3:44 PM

I solder all connections under the dash (security/remote start), as well as most fm modulation connections.  Depending on what gauge the factory wiring is and what kind of mood I'm inposted_image, sometimes when hardwiring a deck I'll use butt connectors, and other times I'll solder.

We use harnesses and crimp caps (using ONLY Klein-style crimpers) whenever possible for deck installs.  It's just so much faster than soldering.  Usually for speaker and amp wiring I'll use crimp-on spades and ring terminals.

Also another thing to remember is that inhaling solder fumes is not exactly the best thing for your health.  And really the only way to avoid inhalation when you're under a dash soldering wires is to stick a fan right next to your head to blow the solder smoke away from you, but we don't really have one of those just lying around (can you say OSHA violations????posted_image)  Most of our installers smoke so it's kinda pointless for me to argue this point, but still it's one reason why I sometimes just don't feel like soldering.



-------------
Ethan
-----
"Patience, persistence, and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success"
Donate to the12volt.com




Posted By: techker
Date Posted: May 16, 2003 at 1:28 PM
ah ha! i see i pick up somme interested installers!posted_image

but there is so many diffrent version.

i do think that the odore is very toxic and maybe canceris!

i solder under the dash only!when i don't i put a tie rap where the conection is.

i do not belive in t-taps or but conectors!!!

lets continue this conversation.it is very interesting... posted_image posted_image




Posted By: 2001rolla
Date Posted: May 17, 2003 at 12:40 AM

You will never get a better connection than you will with solder. I have always soldered my connections but just like Blazermedic says, it's very time consuming especially if you don't do it right the first time. I use shrink tubing as well to cover each wire so I have no possibility of shorting. I then wrap the wires with 3M electrical tape.

ScotchLocks, T-Taps and Butt connectors all have the possibility of failure. far more than any solder joint I've made...

 





Posted By: ronniestamps
Date Posted: May 17, 2003 at 2:19 AM

Like pretty much all of you have said, soldering is time consuming. But, answer this... Why is there never enough time to do it right, but always enough time to do it over? Anyways, every good installer has their methods to make a secure conductive connection, and by now they have perfected their method. For example, whenever I use electrical tape, I throw cable ties over it so that varying temperatures can't promote unraveling. If I use crimp caps, I cable tie the wires together just below the crimp cap to keep the wires as one. If I use butt connectors, I use NON-insulated and shrink tubing. However you do it, keep in mind that you will most likely be the one fixing it if it breaks.

On the frequency loss note... sorry guys, but that is total BS in the audio world. First of all, if solder had that much degrading properties, it would not be used on every single connection inside of your computer, especially the processors. Second, the only frequency loss solder would ever encounter wouldn't actually be frequency loss, especially not in the audible range, it would just be that you've exceeded the conductive capabilities of wire. For example, microwaves and lightwaves not soundwaves.





Posted By: ronniestamps
Date Posted: May 17, 2003 at 2:28 AM

oh, and third, on the frequency note.... aren't the leads on the actual speaker soldered to the voice coil? =)





Posted By: bdl666
Date Posted: May 17, 2003 at 6:46 AM
I personaly hardly ever solder a wire unless it's necessary. I use high quality connectors( I work for one of the best solderless connector companies on the US).

A butt connector or a pig tail (what you guys refer to as caps) can be just as secure as soldering a wire. You just need the right crimpper for the connector you are using. The best crimpers are the ratcheting kind, if they are adjusted right .Mine crimps at 60psi (mil spec).

And most of the bussines that the company I work for do is with the boat and truck manufacturing industry. And they crimp most of their wires. So don't waste your time soldering a wire because it gives you a better conection just make sure that you protect that the wires from corrosion, the real enemy on the automobile enviroment.I put a little amount of electrolitic grease on my connectors before putting the wires in and then crimp and tape the joint.




Posted By: techker
Date Posted: May 17, 2003 at 5:06 PM
notice that every city hase it one litle tricks...

one solders and one puts but conectors....

as long as the job is well done thats all that counts.

we should post pics of bad installs!maybe that would wake people up a bit!

techker
https://ca.geocities/future_tech2003




Posted By: Two_Cold
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 8:46 PM
I read here a while ago that someone recommended soldering, then a dap of silicone and electrical tape. That way the joint is secure, insulated and the tape wont come off.

I tried it and now I do all my wiring this way. No matter who owns the car. I use a small butane torch to solder and it is amazing how tight of spaces you can get into with a small torch.

BTW, when soldering under the dash, solder smoke rises. So how are you breathing it in?




Posted By: esmith69
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 9:09 PM

Well at least whenever I do it, I'm within a couple of feet from where I'm soldering, and even though the smoke rises, I can still breathe it in.  Basically the force of me breathing it in is stronger than the force of whatever physical phenomenon it is that causes smoke to rise (and not fall or stay level) in the first place.  That's the best way I can explain it.

Mostly though the inhalation seems to happen when you put the soldering iron down while preparing the next connection, etc, and there's still solder burning on the tip.



-------------
Ethan
-----
"Patience, persistence, and perspiration make an unbeatable combination for success"
Donate to the12volt.com




Posted By: techker
Date Posted: May 19, 2003 at 8:00 AM
nice work,but how long could it take to do a radio?
find,solder,silcone,tape....wow!

must work by the hour to do that,not by car!
but it is still the best way to do it...good job...


posted_image




Posted By: Two_Cold
Date Posted: May 19, 2003 at 9:49 AM
Since I use the torch I get very little smoke. I forgot that an iron smokes after the work is done. I tend to keep it as far from my face as possible, since the torch is smaller than soldering iron I am better able to do that.

I know it sounds like alot of work, but I've gotten fast. The actual solering is much faster as the torch instantly heats the wires and the solder flows on in about 1 second. I put the silicone on from a tube right away and tape it up.

I wish I could find the original discussion post on this issue. I was skeptical too, until I tried it.

I doubt I am as fast as the pros here though. I just do the work on the side. Mostly alarms and starters, some lights and stereos. I can do a full remote start/alarm in about 4-5 hours.





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