Advice, Solderless Crimpers

I know - I know - I know...sometimes tools made in China are crap. Likewise - usually ya get what ya pay for.

But occasionally -- and this is particularly true for weekend/driveway mechanics like me -- El Cheapo tools are satisfactory.

But I think I applied the aforementioned reasoning to the wrong tool:

I have a love/hate relationship with solderless connectors. Of course they're convenient...and fast...and easily replaceable...and cheap...and fuss-free...but they are also less secure/reliable than solder joints. So I figured:

If I buy a dedicated crimping tool (rather than the punched flat steel strippers/crimpers/bolt cutters/eyebrow pluckers that I have always used) I should be able to consistently crimp solderless connectors nicely....securely...and without CRUSHING them flat. I was excited - let me tell you! How brilliant! It's gonna be SO much better than the way I've been doing it for 30 years!

So off I went into the secret and frightening world of the WWW.

As you can probably predict, I found exactly what I wanted! And they were only $250! Wow!!

Um...no. Come on - $250?!

So I got the $32 ones.

They seem to be useless, but I am not so cooky that I won't acknowledge that perhaps I'm doing it wrong.

I select the proper colour for the gauge of wire, and I stick it into the matching colour slot on the tool. I squeeze it until the handles will not go any further, and when I let go (the ratcheting mech. releases), the connector comes free of the jaws and the wire(s) fall out. About 92% of the time.

I have tried adjusting the little star wheel...but AFAICT the jaws were already coming completely together (I can't get it to compress any tighter)

And alright - the jaws do not align absolutely perfectly. If I close them tight and look at them from the end furthest from the hinge...the lower jaw is canted about 2º. (If the upper jaw is pointing at twelve o'clock, the lower jaw should be at six o'clock, but it's actually at about 5:50) So it's possible that the crimp is VERY SLIGHTLY sub-optimal. But I'd like to ask:

Does anyone own those gold-plated crimpers that are made in a Beverly Hills factory? Are they really that much better? or am I doing something wrong? I have tried to stick in the vinyl-coated connector less...and more. And I've tried red connectors AND blue ones. And I've tried butt connectors, ring terminals & banana plugs. All of them have the same result.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

POST ED - Sorry for the rant. Maybe just skip to the last 2 paragraphs. The rest is mere histrionics etc.

China is like Japan. There was once an adage "Jap Crap". And China has been at the interim point for quite a while. They have recently been producing quality stuff. I suspect many still think their favorite products are still made locally or elsewhere.


If talking typical the typical red, blue & yellow "Insulated Terminals", I've been crimping them for decades with my original relatively cheap typical flat tool - crimps at the end with strippers & cutters handle side & bolt cutters central. That IMO has been fine and I've had few if any problems with bad connections. In fact I probably have more problems with soldered wires breaking...
Much later I bought a 2nd similar looking crimper but it has been useless. Even when bent back [i]straight & in line[/i] its gauge is too thin - it will usually [i]scissor twist[/i] when crimping unless I counter with my free hand. I'm determined to throw it out next time I find it.


Despite my happiness with my "primitive" & cheap crimper, having read the repeated wisdom of Howard and other gurus hereon I recently took the opportunity of (IMO) [i]investing properly[/i] and hence got a $40 [URL=https://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=TH1829]Jaycar ratchet crimper[/URL]. (I had a $100 credit voucher but no direct component needs.)
My verdict is still out. I've only used it for a dozen or so crimps and was surprised when one did NOT take. I'm not sure about the others, but I suspect such crimpers need a central rise for extra compression at the centre.
It is a Duratech (Chinese) tool and tho its construction seems good, it may simply be lacking design finesse if there is a problem at all - ie, lack of central dimple.


Tools are tricky. You can have a great manufacturer with excellent build quality but lacking the design experience specific to that tool use. Or you can have newbies that are excellent.

I recall being chastised in the late 1970s for buying a "cheap" SEK socket set. Other mechanics etc reckoned Sidchrome was the only way to go.
I remember being told off for using one of their Sidchrome sockets on my impact driver - too hard, it will break. wth? I'd been using my SEKs for impacting... That SEK set was my first work & private set. It rebuilt the several cars & bikes and engines I owned; the 12 & 14mm especially getting much hammering so to speak.
After maybe 20 years I recall my first problem - the 14mm socket had stretched so much it was useless (at least I think that was my SEK) but the rest are still fine to this day. I would probably only have gotten a few years out of (then quality) Sidchromes.
I still have my SEK open-ender ring spanners - also hammered at times get still unstretched and intact.

I think SEK has long been regarding as quality, but it was just 'cheap Jap crap' back then.
Sidchrome on the other hand has gone from (alleged) quality to cheese crap and back.
German tools were highly regarded but IMO overpriced, however I still cherish several Stahlwille spanners I have - fine & [i]thin[/i] yet tough yet with beautiful flex and form. They are brought out for the real hard nuts & hammer bashings.


These days are a pain. IMO no longer can a name or a price guarantee quality. I am wary of real cheapies like the $2 12mm spanner I bought that certainly did not look cheesy but its ring shattered on a tight bolt with mere hand pressure, but then my $11 6-piece double ended ratchet ring set was equal to equivalents costing well over $100 - except not as disposable LOL!
And my 1980s 50c no-name Jewelers screwdriver set (cheap even back then) is still probably the best I've ever had; some survive even today.


Maybe the best solution is reviews keeping in mind the type of use (several & professional versus occasional hobby) as well as longetivity.
The latter makes me think of Yale's copy of the Abus Diskus lock. Both seemed the same until a few months in the weather (or traveling with a bike). The Yale would seize within 12 months; the Abus is still fine after 30 years. (And the diskus is one lock you do NOT want to be required to 'crack'!!)

Put it this way, if Howard or IAAI or other similar gurus hereon provide tool suggestions, it should (still?) be accurate.
Of course non-professional cheapskates like me often reject the associate prices, but for key things will pay for that peace of mind.

Well said as always, Sir - our viewpoint is very similar.

The ones you linked are just like mine. I tried to "draw" an end-on diagram of how the jaws come together...but the formatting of this forum wouldn't keep my lines where I put them. Basically there are two | | little fangs(?) on the lower jaw and a single one | on the upper jaw...and the upper comes down between the lowers.

I have not had the pleasure of benefitting from Howard's counsel...but I hope he shares an opinion forthwith. (And anyone else too, naturally!)

As a partial aside...it is a definite pattern of behaviour for me to source & procure specialized tools AFTER I identify the need for same. (In some cases my post-project rationalization bears fruit, and I actually DO use the brand new specialized tool on another project!) And in this case I figure I will definitely use [good quality] crimping tools again & again...

So I really would like to get a pair that work. And while I agree that squishing those tiny aluminum collars flat does seem to hold the wire...it has always struck me as a rather ghetto solution to an operation that could be done oh-so-much-more-neatly (think Mayo versus M.A.S.H.)

I have narrowed the choices to these two from Thomas & Betts:

ERG2001
ERG4001

I'm still trying to determine the difference between these two models...but in the mean time I am trying to find them for less than the [typical] asking price of $250 to $350.

(Really?! What the heck are they made of?! Titanium?)

Does anyone have either of these? or can anyone explain the diff <-> the two models?

Some thoughts, I use a compound ratchet crimper from a French company called Facom, top end stuff, though there's got to be an irony there doing auto electrics but refusing to do French cars yet using a French crimper.
Stahwille were reckoned to be the Rolls Royce of spanners 40 years ago, don't know where you'd find them now though.
Thomas and Betts is a well known tool manufacturer, are they US made?
Just looked, rather expensive, the Facom I've had for about 12 years, doing say 20 crimps a week, £35, about $50.
A hint,make sure your wire thickness matches your connector.
No point using say a blue connector with 22 gauge wire.
Nowadays I only crimp either receptacles (known in the UK as "Lucar", 1/4" or 6mm) and ring terminals for power and ground. Everything else is soldered.


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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Try this:-
https://www.ultimategarage.com/shop/part.php?cPath=35_66_111_1109&products_id=4500.
A company called Ultimate Garage, US agent5s for Facom, $85 which isn't bad considering 12 years of inflation plus shipping over the ditch to shipping over the pond.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Thanks for chiming in Howard.
I like your French tools verses electrics irony - a bit like my Bosch situation (Bosch gas gun great; other Bosch not good to bad) where I could almost say they're all great for starting fires - if only their electrics were string enough (relays excluded; their basic relays are good IMO). Alas I thought Facom made computers (ha ha).

The Facom crimper bits look very similar to mine but I can't see the top surfaces which evidently have some extra detail.
Their handle shape however is quite different - not in line like mine.   

But I'll take note your gauge matching tip -cum- warning. That I tend not to worry about - eg, often using blue in lieu of red - though I will usually double or triple the conductor.

I am now also aware of "bad" crimps that have sharp instead of rounded internal outlet edges that can easily cut thru the wire.

Thank you very kindly for sharing your thoughts, Howard! Some tasty food for thought there. Indeed I am very aware/cautious of wire gauge when selecting a solderless connector.

Contrary to my usual practise (blaming the tool holding the pliers before the pliers) I place the blame squarely on the crimpers in this case. And I believe the jaws are 95% of it. Not only are they slightly mis-aligned -- which is likely worth about 5% of that 95% -- but I'll wager that their design is sub-optimal.

Those FACOM's look a treat, though! I may just try to source a pair. It's slightly annoying that they never came up in my (fairly extensive, I thought) Internet sleuthing.

I hope someone else has an opinion and/or a review to share(?)

Anyone?

Okay - aside from the cost, what's the difference between these FACOM tools?

985894
985753
673838

I have to presume that one or more of the terms "Maintenance", "Production" and "Standard" are significant; this is not the first time I have seen the first two of these terms.

I missed that bit from my post thanks Oldspark, - though I will usually double or triple the conductor.
Ronemca give me a link please.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

985894 85
985753 216
673838 98

Upon a second viewing, it looks like the last ones are the only ratcheting pliers(?) Whilst standing solidly upon the fence regarding the ratcheting action...do I need it? because presumably it adds to the cost.

I can't tell the difference between the first and third except blimey that's a hell of an increase over the (equivalent) to $45 I paid 12 years ago.
Unless you're doing production line crimping, go for no.1.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Message received - the investigation continues. (And I will follow up with a decision)

I use two sets of crimpers for crimp connections:

If I'm in a tight area (ie, working under the dash, without the space to get the ratchet crimper in there), I use the T&B/Sta-Kon WT-1 (or similar from an electrical tool vendor, like Klein). Don't pay more than $30 for it.

If I'm prototyping, or benchtopping, I use the ratcheting crimper along this line:
https://www.amazon.com/Titan-11477-Ratcheting-Terminal-Crimper/dp/B0069TRKJ0/ref=sr_1_2?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1407175233&sr=1-2&keywords=ratchet+crimper
Not that particular brand, though it's well reviewd I have no experience with it. I can't find the exact item I obtained at Oreilly Auto parts, but it was less than $30 and works exceptionally well.

In fact, it works every bit as well as the crimpers I used to use for crimping bifurcated terminals onto wires when wiring IC Gyro and the Tactical Data Systems on aircraft carriers and other warships many moons ago. Those were high-end, $300 crimpers, but otherwise quite similar in construction and function.

In short- there's your answers.

The problem you're having with crimps coming off may well be with the solderless terminals you're using, or the technique. Believe it or not, there is one way and only one way to crimp those terminals. The seam in the terminal goes opposite the flat part of the crimper's cavity, so the swedged are of the cavity acts upon the seamed side. Not taking the effort to check this makes for an immense difference in quality of crimp, and failure-rate.

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

One thing I forgot to note:

After crimping, I'll immediately give the connection a tug. I'm right there, I have it in my hand, it's no extra effort. Usually, the connector is still swedged into the die on the crimper anyway.

This most often results in nothing much to note... the wire tugs the crimp, nothing moves and all is well (obviously I'm not doing this to 30AWG wire)On very, very rare occasion, it pulls the wire from the crimp barrel- and I've always found in that instance it's a defective barrel.

Why? I buy commonly-available connectors at the auto parts store, I'm not wasting money on milspec connectors as this is not a life-safety or weapons system. It's a car, not a moon shot, folks. ;)

It's a simple matter of suitability and availability. I can find them, cheap, locally, and they work. Occasionally I'll find a bum connector (usually apparent when I look into the connector barrel before using it while checking its orientation to the die- you do that, right?), but the reject rate (and related, the failure rate) is less than 1%. I think I have probably 1 bad connector and/or termination for every 300-400 crimps. That's mostly a matter of the operator's experience, but also a matter of not using utter crap for tools- I know some folks can make good crimps using those crimpers originally mentioned in the OP's bit, but every job I've every worked on where wiring work is done professionally, the mere possession of those tools has been grounds for being run off the task.

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

Good advice burntkat.

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Support the12volt.com

"...Believe it or not, there is one way and only one way to crimp those terminals. The seam in the terminal goes opposite the flat part of the crimper's cavity, so the swedged are of the cavity acts upon the seamed side."

"...checking its orientation to the die- you do that, right?..."

I was not aware of this limitation; I just stick 'em in there. Clearly I need to have a closer look at my El Cheapo tool and make sure I have the correct image imprinted on my mental screen. Then I can come back here and clarify which part is considered "the flat part of the crimpers cavity"

I am absolutely elated to have this resource to tap. Thank you, gentlemen - I remain solidly in sponge mode.

Interesting statements...

I suspect it's geared more towards smaller terminals used on 0.1" pitch arrays or Molex or housed spades etc rather than standalone RBY auto cimps.   
But that's what mentioned my "new expensive" auto terminal crimper with no divots to extra crimp the center.


FYI...
In some cases using my 30+ year old plain "sheet metal" (flat) crimper I'd crimp and then centre-crimp using some edge on the tool. Other times I might merely follow up with a smaller crimp - ie, having crimped a blue with the blue, I'd then crimp it with the red slot. (FYI - I never found that the 2nd smaller crimp would open up or loosen the first.)
Most often I'd due a double crimp - ie crimp towards one end and crimp again towards the other. (Usually overlapping because connector crimp regions are not very long.)

What I actually did depended a lot on what burntkat mentioned - tug and observe. Any movement IMO had to be removed. (That was fun in 2-piece connectors where the inner solidly cable clamped sleeve would move or slide in an outer sleeve.)

I'll have to take some pics later to further demonstrate what I'm saying, but for now, here's a few links to pics off the web to help...

Those crimpers "with the extra bit" that you're referring to are like the commonly-available cast steel crimpers from Klein, like these:
https://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41w-QeuQ8rL._SY300_.jpg
Note the little tooth in the jaw. These are actually designed for crimping UNinsulated terminals. Let's face it, though- they work well for insulated terminals, and we've all used it for an installation with strictly insulated terminals throughout. It's "wrong" as it's not what it's designed for, and it makes a crimp that's not to spec in terms of swedging the open side of the terminal and it overly-deforms the copper wire. But again we say "this ain't a moon shot", and it works quite well even given that it's "wrong".

Now, the actual, correct tool for insulated connectors is more along the lines of these:
https://www.stridetool.com/tools/electrical_datatools/crimper_ie145187.gif
Specifically, the "hand side" of the hinge on IE-145, and the entirety of the dies on IE-187 (though I can't discern if they're actually for data connector terminals- tool looks REAL similar to the crimper for DAMA30 and UYK20 pins, which were a severe pain in the ass, but that's another discussion). If you look at slot "A" on IE-187, you'll see a bowed surface on the left, and a cupped surface on the right. The bowed surface is where the "open side" (honestly, a better choice of words would be "seamed side"- but no matter the terminal, a seamed connection always has an open side where the material is not joined to itself, because they start out as flat sheets of material that are then formed into connectors, whereas unseamed connectors start out as tubing). So, getting back on mission here- the open/seamed side goes against the bow (or the left side of slot A on IE-187), and the solid/unseamed side goes against the adjoining, cupped side...

Finished product should look something like this:
https://m5.i.pbase.com/g3/84/622984/2/94465955.Sq9IoVXH.jpg. Granted, those are both FAILED connections, but it's early, I'm still trying to wake up, and I don't wanna track down my good camera. Those are failures for two reasons. The one on the left is unevenly crimped, the one on the right appears to have been used with a wire that was too small, as it's not full of material. The one on the left would probably work just fine for mobile electronics. The one on the right would likely not pass the "tug test".
Note that the "open side" is at the top, and has clearly been pressed into the bowed side of the die. This first tightens the material, then shrinks it as it pushes it around and down into the material inside the body. When it does this, it also swedges the material inside, deforming it and making sure everything is compacted together, achieving lower resistance in the connection and a mechanical bond.

I will add that crimping, then crimping with a smaller die, is dounterindicated. You will break strands doing this, and stress the hell out of the wire. Not good for a high-vibration environment. But it works for him, so that's fine. I suspect, if I know our Aussie friend, Oldspark, like I think I do, that he ends the job by harnessing all the wires into a bundle and then taping together- creating an excellent strain relief. I do it myself, just make sure not to use the cheap tape- it leaves a mess if you have to go back and change things. ;)

If it seems I know way too much about this stuff, it's because I do. I had to set through a week long course on doing this stuff when I started working on Uncle Sam's neat toys.

More than you'll want to know about crimping:
https://www.globalspec.com/learnmore/tools_instruments/crimp_tools

Though right off the bat I note one glaring inaccuracy in their document. They say that "bullets are crimped into their shells". Well, maybe. The vast majority of bullets are NOT crimped. Some are, especially those used in tube-magazine rifles and shotguns. Another discussion entirely, outside of the scope of this document. (Can you tell I also handload ammo?)


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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

B4 I say anything else, I want to state the following:
I am enjoying this dialogue immensely. I am VERY pleased to have the opportunity to hear the opinions of people who know what they are talking about. It reminds me of when I was a youngster and could simply ask my Dad (R.I.P.) about whatever it was that had piqued my curiosity that day. Of course my memories are skewed by the passage of time -- and I knew then as I know now that my Dad was by no means an expert on everything -- but the point is that I could get a general idea about something or other without a whole lot of research and/or instruction.

Nowadays I am keen to pick the brains of people like yourselves, because I can get that same "right now" feedback...and choose to pursue it and ask questions (or not) depending upon my level of commitment. So - thank you.

I have admitted that I am stumbling along in the dark in this area (and with my current tool) and I acknowledge that MAYBE that Chinese El Cheapo plier may very well perform satisfactorily after all once I apply my newfound knowledge. OTOH -- within reason -- I am willing to invest a few bucks on a tool that:

a) makes an operation foolproof
b) makes an operation easier and/or faster

But of course there's a limit. If I found such a tool and it was priced at over $100 I would eliminate it from consideration immediately. It isn't that important!

So I have found a few more tools about which I'd like some feedback.

Paladin 1305

Paldin 8022

...and BTW - this particular tool keeps popping up with alternating part numbers. On Amazon and some other sites, p/n 8000 is described as "Frame only". I realize the dies are interchangeable, and that "frame only" should mean NO DIES INCLUDED, but the picture clearly shows the tool (and describes it as coming) with R/B/Y dies installed. Other sites make the same error. I wrote in to Amazon to propose a correction, but they declined. And I also posted a question of other owners, and a gentleman said his came with dies pre-installed. Yes I realize I can return it if it does not arrive as shown...but for me that's not only problematic, but...well...silly.

Overshadowing all of this is...

Aside from the sometimes exorbitant cost, the mechanism of all these tools appears to be identical. If that presumption is correct -- and all we are doing is squeezing a pair of dies together -- then the variables must therefore be longevity/durability of the tool, and quality of crimp based upon the design of the die. I guess what I am saying is that in every case, the fail-ability of the human operator is virtually eliminated.

The lower one looks better.
BTW This is one of my strippers, it's too damned big for modern cars/wiring/dashboards.

https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial-Tools-2078300-Self-Adjusting/dp/B000OQ21CA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_17?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I have one of those. It's not an IRWIN, but the design is identical. And I think it's great for auto work, but so far 90% of my stuff is ≥ 16G.

Luckily I have the luxury of pondering and cross-examining this issue for as long as I want, and since I am learning along the way...I am doing exactly that. Additionally, I do not Tweet/Blog/Facebook/Vine etc.; instead I try to broaden my knowledge base thru participation in learning/teaching forums such as this.

'Good to hear from you, Howie!

And yourself! The head on that tool is just to big to safely get into modern looms with many, many thin wires.
There was a movie "Executive Decision" where our hero strips wire insulation with a laser! I wish.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Found another one: Ideal CrimpMaster 30-500

The search has concluded. A frenzy of online searching yielded a source where they were giving these beauties away for less than $60 so I pulled the trigger. I have been mighty happy with my other two IDEAL tools...and I expect more of the same with this one. I got it from here where they even offer free shipping on purchases of $150 or greater.

I have some ideal strippoers, really good.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Shall I therefore assume you approve of my decision, Sir?

HaHa, if in three months you post and tell me how great they are, yes.
Sorry for that answer, I'm in cynical old b. mode.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

ronemca wrote:

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So I have found a few more tools about which I'd like some feedback.

Paladin 1305


Paldin 8022

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You can almost never go wrong with Paladin tools. I rate them as comparable to Klein in terms of professional electrical tools.

ronemca wrote:

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...and BTW - this particular tool keeps popping up with alternating part numbers. On Amazon and some other sites, p/n 8000 is described as "Frame only". I realize the dies are interchangeable, and that "frame only" should mean NO DIES INCLUDED, but the picture clearly shows the tool (and describes it as coming) with R/B/Y dies installed. Other sites make the same error. I wrote in to Amazon to propose a correction, but they declined. And I also posted a question of other owners, and a gentleman said his came with dies pre-installed. Yes I realize I can return it if it does not arrive as shown...but for me that's not only problematic, but...well...silly.

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Go to the manufacturer's site, what does it say there? That info trumps all others.

ronemca wrote:

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Overshadowing all of this is...

Aside from the sometimes exorbitant cost, the mecha[quote]nism of all these tools appears to be identical. If that presumption is correct

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I assure you, it's not.
They're similar- but I recently had to make new plug wires for my truck, and thought the same thing. I bought a set of dies for spark terminals and found they didn't fit properly into the frame. I had to modify the die- nothing difficult to do, if you understand how the tool works.

ronemca wrote:

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I guess what I am saying is that in every case, the fail-ability of the human operator is virtually eliminated.

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Incorrect. Proper orientation of the crimp connector in the tool is CRUCIAL to a proper crimp. There's no way to assure this without the op using their eyes and orienting it properly.

You'd be surprised how many "professional installations" I've had to rework for this one simple fact.

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

howie ll wrote:

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The lower one looks better.
BTW This is one of my strippers, it's too damned big for modern cars/wiring/dashboards.

https://www.amazon.com/Irwin-Industrial-Tools-2078300-Self-Adjusting/dp/B000OQ21CA/ref=pd_sim_sbs_hi_17?

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Those are passable, but just barely.

The automatic stripper is neat, but won't work with all sorts of wire jacket (as I recall, THHN wire gives it fits- but then you won't find it much in cars from the factory- I like to use it for winch control lines and the like, low-voltage low current work for relays)

But the crimper being on the hand side of the device means you get no mechanical advantage- so it's tougher on the hand and you don't get as good a crimp.

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

ronemca wrote:

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The search has concluded. A frenzy of online searching yielded a source where they were giving these beauties away for less than $60 so I pulled the trigger. I have been mighty happy with my other two IDEAL tools...and I expect more of the same with this one. I got it from here where they even offer free shipping on purchases of $150 or greater.

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Good choice, Ideal are a great line of tools as well. Professional-grade, in many cases.


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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

I had another really close look at the [Chinese] no-name tool that the IDEAL tool is replacing. As I have tried to say before, the lower jaw closes at quite an angle; when the dies come completely together (i.e. they cannot be closed any more) they are only touching each other on the side with the three coloured dots. On the other side there is a gap of about 2mm. I think I am doomed to fail every time with such a shoddy piece of "workmanship".

Finally! I broke out the new toy (oops - "tool") to replace a 16g butt connector in the truck. I actually used -- for the first time ever -- one of my recently-purchased COOL SEAL connectors, and it went just fine.

That said, I realize the act of attaching a butt connector to join two single wires is hardly worthy of being called a "process", but for lack of a better term...the process went smoothly and the joint seems very secure.

I look forward to my next "significant" project...when I can do a few different styles and/or in some hard to reach areas. But at first blush, the IDEAL tool seems first rate.

So what you're saying is, you've found the ideal tool for the job?

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

burntkat wrote:

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So what you're saying is, you've found the ideal tool for the job?

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Oh Man - that is too funny. What a card! Honestly...you're wasting your talent trolling about here on the 'net. You should be in 'Vegas or NY bringin' down da house with your rapier wit.

But seriously, folks...

It's good to hear from you again, old friend (extreme emphasis on the "old" part) Why - I heard they found a few rocks in Arizona that might be older than you!

But seriously, folks...

I bet when you went to school they didn't even have history class!

(I could go on...)

But as for the COOL SEAL connectors...
I guess they'd be better than non COOL SEAL connectors under the hood, or in areas where there may be moisture present...but I'm guessing they're wasted in the cabin. I dunno - I am very much a greenhorn in this area.

I'm not familiar with the Cool Seal connectors, but I suspect they may indeed be wasted in an automotive use, full stop.

I solder everything under the hood that doesn't need to be removable for troubleshooting, and most stuff in the cabin. In a Marine environment (commercial use), I solder everything (unless it's a socket, like the attachment to a relay). Anything that has a socket/plug gets dielectric grease (can't remember the name, it's also an Ideal product, IIRC).

In Military installations, I would just follow the build sheet- some of it gets the above treatment, some of it gets wire-wrapped, some goes to terminal blocks or Canon plugs- none of which apply here.

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

X 2 with BK here, only seem to use crimpers for ring terminals for grounds and receptacles for pin switches. I solder everything else.
BK, it's lithium grease by the way.

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Interesting! I have been casually thinking of asking about that "special" grease. For years I've been putting dielectric grease on/in weather-exposed connections...believing it to be a smart idea. But a few weeks ago I learned that "dielectric" is actually synonymous with "conductive". I guess I have always just assumed it was insulative (yeah - I made that up...but you got it, didn't you?)

Clearly the primary goal is moisture & corrosion resistance, yes? And it's good to learn that Lithium is the preferred choice. But if it is not necessary for the grease to be conductive...then why Lithium vs. any other random grease that may be laying around? Or silicone?

howie ll wrote:

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BK, it's lithium grease by the way.

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Been a while, sorry I missed this reply- I've been focusing on my certifications at work and metal fabrication on my Jeep.

No, the product I use is Ideal's NOALOX:
https://www.grainger.com/product/6YH33?cm_mmc=PPC:GooglePLAC-_-Lubrication-_-Lubricants-_-6YH33&ci_src=17588969&ci_sku=6YH33&gclid=Cj0KEQiApbunBRDs0fba3dz484cBEiQAMsx-p9GrJspuqbNDn3qF7NmXEfbp2e3WFvV-Bl1aaeEkHy4aAjcK8P8HAQ

You can actually get it at Lowe's, and of course any industrial electrical supply house (like Grainger, above) carries it.

It surely has lithium grease in it- but it also has a bunch of other stuff. I've gotten into the habit of putting a dab of it on each end of batteries in all my battery-op gear. It seems like they last longer, work better, and I know for a fact I don't have the corrosion problems I used to have (for instance, in my oldschool incandescent Mag lights in my truck).

Just don't get it on you. The stuff is tenacious, and will ruin clothing for certain.

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

ronemca wrote:

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Interesting! I have been casually thinking of asking about that "special" grease. For years I've been putting dielectric grease on/in weather-exposed connections...believing it to be a smart idea. But a few weeks ago I learned that "dielectric" is actually synonymous with "conductive". I guess I have always just assumed it was insulative (yeah - I made that up...but you got it, didn't you?)

Clearly the primary goal is moisture & corrosion resistance, yes? And it's good to learn that Lithium is the preferred choice. But if it is not necessary for the grease to be conductive...then why Lithium vs. any other random grease that may be laying around? Or silicone?

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Actually, Dielectric doesn't mean conductive. It means insulative:

[Quote]di·e·lec·tric
ˌdīəˈlektrik/
Physics
adjective
adjective: dielectric
    1.
    having the property of transmitting electric force without conduction; insulating.
noun
noun: dielectric; plural noun: dielectrics
    1.
    a medium or substance that transmits electric force without conduction; an insulator.
[/quote]

First thing that comes to mind is the dielectric layers in a capacitor.

You are correct in your initial assumption. The idea of the grease is to keep moisture out and corrosion (in this case more of a patina, as when copper sits in the environment) at bay, as both increase the resistance to current flow. The conduction in the circuits is provided by the contacts, doesn't need any help other than to keep the environment out.

Any grease is counterindicated when you're soldering, though. Make a nice joint with rosin-core electrical solder, clean off any excess flux, cover with heatshrink (preferably the good stuff with the adhesive inside), and you're done.



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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

Boy - when you take a hiatus you don't fool around! But I am pleased that you are still on the right side of the grass, Sir.

Thanks kindly for your clarification; I shall update my mental dB.