Printer Friendly Forum Posts - direct-to-batt cabin heater

Greetings, gentlemen! I hope this finds you well and in the process of carefully wrapping my birthday present in preparation for mailing. (I hope you didn't go overboard - no - really - you're TOO kind!)

Anyway - here in southern Ontario Canada we get a lotta snow and more than a little bone-chilling cold in the depths of winter. Pursuant to this, I am considering an in-cabin heater. It's not likely that I'll mess about with relays and remote activation; I'll probably just fire it up when I first hop in. What I'm interested in is recommendations.

I do not intend to mount it; I want it to sit on its own on the [vinyl] floor mat on the pass. side. And I am willing to just plug it into a power point on the dash...or wire it directly.

Any experience? I know there are several, but the sub-$40 units are crapola for shoor.

Many thanks!
Ron

I hope you're not talking about an AC heater - I dealt with someone (here or on mp3car) that thought that would be workable AND cheaper than fixing his heater core.

But a 12V unit will also flatten your battery fairly quickly. They are usually over 100W.

No - a 12v unit. But I'd only run it when the engine was running. Something like this.

I was given a cheapo unit from HFT a few years ago and it was completely useless. I mean it was laughable. But it got me thinking. Yeah, yeah - I know - it's not like I'm near the Arctic circle or anything, but for the sake of forty or fifty bucks I think it'd be worth it to get some heat as soon as I jump in the truck instead of having to wait 'til I'm almost at work before the frost is gone from the windows!

But I have zero experience with them. And I know that just because something seems like a good idea doesn't make it a good idea, so I am asking those who likely KNOW.

I don't know about that one other than I presume if one fuse blows, they both blow.

Pre-heater heating here is sometimes done with 12V hairdriers for the sake of demisting windows.

There are also car heating kits whether AC powered sump or coolant heaters, or full blown automated engine start systems. (Popular in Scandinavia for garaged vehicles or when at the movies etc.)

My brother gave me a cheap cig-plug heater which he thought was useless. It was only about 80W but I found it quite good considering its low power. I suspect he was trying to heat his Mitsubishi L300 van whereas I used it to take the chill out of my very small ute cabin after removing its heater.

If it's with the engine running you should have no problems (it's probably equivalent to running high beams and wipers).
Even if your alternator does not handle its 20-25A loading, assuming it's off once the car heater gets going and you drive for a while thereafter. But a (3-digit dash) voltmeter should be able to confirm that.

Good - that's what I figgered as well! I'm not iron-clad committed; it's just something I'm mulling over. When I had the El Cheapo unit from HFT the issue I had with it was that it would slide all over the floor on the pass. side which annoyed & frustrated me. I realize this one is intended to be affixed much like an extension speaker for a CB radio -- and that would certainly keep it in one spot -- but I'm not sure I'm keen enough to go that far. AND I'm not sure where I could affix it if I ever wanna put a second person in the front seat (which I occasionally do)

The drive shaft tunnel is out of the question. Likewise the front edge of the pass seat. Really - now that I am seriously contemplating it - the only place that's available is on the rear wall behind the seats (it's a half-extended cab) But I wonder if it would even make an impact 'way back there (unless I run it for a half hour!)

It's at times like these that I hearken back to the gasoline heaters that VW used to install in Beetles. I thought that was a fantastic idea! Absolutely INSTANT heat at any temperature! I wonder why they never caught on(?) Hmmm.

Don't you have an OEM cabin heater - what's happened to it?

Sure - and once the car warms up it's dandy. But that takes too long. I'd like to be able to have some heat immediately when I first hop in at 5:30 AM.

Fine. I was worried by your comment "...(unless I run it for a half hour!).".

It shouldn't take more than a coupe of minutes for OEM heaters to get working - and that's in my 49 year old ute; modern vehicles are much faster. (Tho my ute has an electric radiator fan, but that makes no difference.)
If it takes longer, check for a faulty (open) thermostat else blocked lines & heater core. (I flush my core etc every few years.)

BTW - I think that "electric heater" guy spooked me. I tried to counter him by explaining that using a 2.4kW heater - ie the max domestic size here based on our 240VAC supply (now officially 230VAC but not so in practice) - with max 10A GPO rating would require a 3kW inverter which would draw 300A. Even if he got a 300A+ alternator, 2.4kW is nothing compared to the typically available 10kW (at least) of WASTE heat produced by an engine. Besides, the added fuel cost would pay for his heater core if not the inverter.

Understood. Well...hopefully someone'll weigh in on the unit I linked (or a better one) so that I can make a decision backed by more than just specs and a photo.

Honestly - I feel these things are intended more for slightly larger spaces [than the cab of a two-seater pick-up truck]. Think RV's, or the living space in one of those drop-in campers that go in the bed of a fullsize pick-up. The aforementioned HFT gizmo got me thinking along the lines of a small-ish device with feet that would sit semi-stationary on the floor in the pass side footwell. But now that I have examined the more efficient units at greater length...I am starting to wonder if it's gonna work the way I envision.

Maybe I should go with a 23K BTU kerosene heater! Yeah! That beast could sit there - wedged between the glove box and the seat like R2D2 - pumpin' out the heat like no tomorrow!

(Just kidding.) posted_image

300 Watts is not very much heat.
Doesn't matter what the voltage is, the amount of heat produced is measured in "Watts". You're going to be disappointed with the heat output.

The consideration is that 300 watts in a 12 volt system is 25 amps. That's pretty much the limit for general automotive lighter and power outlet circuits. Current higher than this begins to fry terminals, fuses and wiring. But 25 Amps is marginally "OK", hence why the 300 Watt consumption. But not much heat in sub-freezing ambient temps.

You'd be better satisfied in your quest for "instant heat" by installing aftermarket seat heaters.

Yes - this is the type of evaluation I need. I can see your point clearly; a helluva drain for negligible results.

But seat heaters?! Hmmm. That thought did cross my mind, but I figured they would be a lot of fuss (and/or pricey) but I admit I've not researched this option.

Excellent thinking! I shall delve into this possibility.

Well - I opted for the add-a-cushion cig outlet heater. I found one on sale and it turned out alright in the end.

I did learn that "proper" set heaters (read: integrated) can be procured & installed at the same places that do audio and alarm installs (and for around the same price) but I decided that this particular vehicle was not one I wanted to invest that much in for something I couldn't remove and re-use (or re-sell) later.

As always, gentlemen - my warmest thanks for your feedback! I value it greatly.

Feedback appreciated - especially when so warm.

Just make sure cig sockets don;t supply too much of that warmth. (OEM vehicle cig sockets are usually fine; it's aftermarkets & extension/expansion sockets that seem to be suspect with more than several Amps.)

ronemca wrote:

Sure - and once the car warms up it's dandy. But that takes too long. I'd like to be able to have some heat immediately when I first hop in at 5:30 AM.

Late to the party again, here...

and yes, I'm a southern boy, so take this with a grain of salt:

Install a remote start system. Hit the starter from the warmth of your kitchen as you enjoy the morning cuppa in your pajamas. 15 minutes later you walk out the door and have a toasty warm truck.

Of course it may take longer for your vehicle to come up to temp in the dead of winter- suggest doing a test cycle on a cold vehicle in the midst of a cold morning and get some actual numbers.

Yes it will waste a bit of fuel- or maybe not. You'll be commuting with an engine at proper temperature, and the vehicle will get better economy in so doing.

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

oldspark wrote:

If it takes longer, check for a faulty (open) thermostat else blocked lines & heater core. (I flush my core etc every few years.)

If I may make a suggestion- try RMI-25. It is a fantastic product, and will clean out your radiator and entire cooling system quite well, extending the life of all parts.

Also, a coolant bypass filter is an excellent addition.

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"Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. - Robert A. Heinlein"

I installed a combo alarm + remote start long long ago, and I use it daily when I am setting out from home. However...

I am mainly interested in the other end of my daily journey; leaving work. Despite buying an expensive (read: long-range) remote start system...it will not reach the truck until I am seconds away from opening the doors. Between the walls themselves, the electronics, the steel girders, the walkie-talkies etc. etc. there is clearly a tremendous amount of interference that challenges the little remote. And yes - there are units that can be activated with a cellphone, but the same problem exists; there is no cellular signal until I am damn near outside.

We are going through periods where the temp is around -24 F (with wind chill) and for half that time I am on the night shift...so I'm coming out of the building into the worst of it!

And I am quite disappointed in the 12v add-a-cushion. The OEM seat heaters in my other car are pretty good; you can actually feel the heat within 3 or 4 minutes of activation. But the floppy topper sucks! It takes about 10 minutes before you begin to feel anything - and it is pathetic. At no time would I ever say:

"Geez - my ass is roasting! I need to turn this down a notch!"

< sigh >

If I had a long commute, or I used it to make my living and was in&out constantly (i.e.: towing) I would go the extra mile and install aftermarket heat sheets, but as things are I will just deal. It's Canada, after all.

LOL. Dangfangled modern EFIs have ruined the old money spinner of idling on choke before driving. And I'll stick to my hair shampoo for bad cleanouts IF they are needed - RMI25's opening "an Oxygen Scavenger to prevent cavitation" set my alarm bells ringing, not to mention cylinder pitting. But it's good to see a reasonably priced concentrate instead of the 7% premixes that so many seem to buy down here.

But this thread is about fast or pre-heating. The engine is the best and hence a long range remote is the best. (And automated heat maintainers during stops & cinemas etc.)

Otherwise quickening post-start heating via electric engine fans and waterpumps and cabin heaters being supplied from the head.

Electrics are limited as we have seen - unless perhaps multi-hundred Amp heaters are fitted (as apparently used in come cat converters), but then comes the battery reserve and wear and fuel economy issue. Maybe infrared is a better solution until the engine thermals kick in? (I used to knock infrared heaters until realising they are the best for (immediate) body heating in non heated areas eg, in tents or after stepping out of a shower.)

I'd expect that adding a thermo control unit to remote & autostart systems isn't too difficult - especially to aftermarket fitments.

oldspark wrote:

not to mention cylinder pitting.

Are you saying "cylinder pitting" is a farce and doesn't exist? Sometimes hard to tell with you what you think. I own a 7.3 Ford Powerstroke and liner pitting is always a concern, as it will silently destroy an otherwise perfectly running $10,000 engine.

Anyway, Diesel wet liner pitting is a very real threat to any diesel engine with liners, and some that don't. Google it. It exists. Here's a liner out of a Cat:

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