Connectors or Solder
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Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Mobile Electronics Questions and Answers
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=22542
Printed Date: April 28, 2024 at 3:31 AM
Topic: Connectors or Solder
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Subject: Connectors or Solder
Date Posted: December 08, 2003 at 1:18 PM
The majority of the people I have spoken with use o'l faithful solder and electrical tape, but are there other's out there ? I know of one installer that swears by the T-Taps and he refuses to use sodler because he says " ....even with solder and tape you can stil have strands that poke out of the tape ". So what do you guys use ? :errr: ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Replies:
Posted By: auex
Date Posted: December 08, 2003 at 1:49 PM
Hey, why can't I vote in this pole?
-------------
Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.
I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.
Posted By: StealthEs
Date Posted: December 08, 2003 at 4:11 PM
Never had any problems with good old solder and tape. Have heard of people that get cold solder or something along that line. ------------- Cris
Posted By: jayts95
Date Posted: December 08, 2003 at 7:09 PM
At the shop that I work at we are supposed to solder all of our connections. Most of the time I do. Sometimes a wire is just to hard to reach to be able to solder it. Every now and then a t-tap comes in real handy. I don't think that t-taps are bad if used correctly. I personally would never use them for higher current connections. (Such as in a remote start)
Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: December 08, 2003 at 9:05 PM
Just a thought, if solder is the "best" way, why don't the car manufactures use it?
Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: December 08, 2003 at 9:26 PM
Time = Money . . .
Regards
EVIL Teken
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: December 09, 2003 at 9:11 AM
They don't use it because all their connections are in Molex plugs. You don't see them use T-Taps  . If you get a cold solder, it's probably because the installer didn't allow the solder tip to heat up the wire or the sodler he was using was not the proper type. Speaking of solder, DO NOT use the lead free stuff, it's crap and take forever to heat up properly to the wire. By the time the sodler has melted, so has all the insulation around the connection. ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: December 09, 2003 at 5:40 PM
I think what he means is that why do they not solder the ends of the connectors.
Everything we do at work, regardless if it is crimped the ends of the connector is soldered on as well.
This process is not done at the automotive level, because the time and material costs would be too great.
They also have invested into millions of dollars in equipment which applies enough equal pressure onto the insulator to ensure proper termination of the harness.
This is something the average person cannot do on a consistent bassis. You will see that the many more companies are using a combination of crimping and
Ultra-sonic welding which uses extremely precise increments of heat and pressure to fuse the two objects together, which makes a bond almost as stroung as soldering.
Regards
EVIL Teken . . .
Posted By: NowYaKnow
Date Posted: December 09, 2003 at 8:57 PM
Well from other discussions you probably have seen I go with the poke, wrap, and tape method most of the time..Strip the wire, poke a hole in the middle with an awl or something similar, put your wire through the hole, wrap it around tight, then tape. Also on top of that I always double tape all ignition wires and put a wire tie on each wire, then a wire tie on the complete bundle of wires. Another tip I use is to use a pair of pliers to "crimp" the connection after I wrap the wire around, or just after you put the wire through the hole. This helps to ensure a good connection. I would say this method is reliable as any when done correctly. Bottom line is a bad installer will make bad connections regardless of what method he uses to connect. I have checked and repaired bad soldered connections, bad poke/wrap/tape connections, bad t-taps, etc..If done correctly, I think there are a lot of different methods out there to use, soldering still being number 1.
Mike
Posted By: nevrgonastopme0
Date Posted: December 12, 2003 at 11:51 AM
Solder, all the way, and i highly agree with Velocity Motors, the lead free crap sucks so bad, BEWARE THE CRAPY STUFF
Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: December 12, 2003 at 6:25 PM
With the lead free solder, you will not have to worry about waking up in 30 years with a third arm, do to lead poisoning. 
Regards
EVIL Teken . . .
Posted By: mikeshonda750
Date Posted: December 12, 2003 at 10:17 PM
Though i am totally new to the mobile electronice field and wasnt very current on whats acceptable and not acceptable I do agree soldering is the way to go. I have been in the automotive repair side of the industry for many years and have made a few observations about various connections and splicing. 3M Scotchlok: What horrid little pieces of crap! The idea is decent, but not very effective. Almost every pickup i have had to diag that had tail light problems (ie blowing fuses, not working ext) had 1 other thing in common. It had a trailer hitch installed. Nuff said T-Taps: To be honest, i have never seen them used, and if i have, i didnt know they were called t-taps, so i dont know for sure Solder & Heatshrink: If you can do it, go for it! I would much rather not cut the wire and simply use electrical tape, but heatshrink is awesome. Probably the best i have seen so far was the type that the GM dealers use which when heated oozes a small ammount of glue out to seal and finalize the connection. Butt Connectors: I was a fan of butt connectors simply because i thought they were alot faster than getting the soldering iron out and doing it that way. Boy was i dead wrong! Strip the wire back, solder it and tape! Much faster, Much more permenant, much more professional looking and (for shop owners and number crunchers) is cheaper in the long run. Im no expert installer. Have probably 30 or so remote starts/alarms under my belt, and the bottom line is, solder is faster, safer, cheaper and forever, anything else is just a comeback waiting to happen! We have all had that "1" come back and bite us in the ass. Our fault or not, wouldnt you feel much better when the car rolls out of the shop knowing that you did the job correctly and professionally and never run the risk of a wire comming undone and catching the car on fire Strip, poke, slip through and twist method: No brainer here. Your BEGGING for people to come back with problems! Why not take an extra 10 seconds and solder it up and tape it up instead of "I TRIPLE tape my connections! Run a hose clamp around that and squeeze it down to ensure nothing is comming loose and i wire-tie that so the screw wont back off!" though i suppose the installer who uses this method doesent need any wire strippers, they just use their teeth!! -------------
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: December 13, 2003 at 12:31 AM
A third arm wouldn't be a bad thing ........ would it ?? Think of those times you wish you had a third arm while installing a remote starter or taking off a door panel ? ------------- Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Posted By: hotrodelectric
Date Posted: December 13, 2003 at 9:28 AM
Well, since most of what I do is from scratch, I crimp (as applicable), solder and then shrink tube. I use butt connectors when I have a group of wires to go together, such as a gang splice. Scotchloks? Those things are forbidden in my shop. T-taps and quick-fuse connectors are also out. If I do have to tap a wire after the harness is made, I strip the insulation from where I want to go, twist, solder, and insulate well with tape. Obviously, I have to buy the uninsulated terminals, and my shrink tubing bill is a bit higher than most. Eh, I just pass the cost on
Posted By: brunetmj
Date Posted: December 16, 2003 at 8:54 PM
Is there any special soldering techniques used to get to those hard to get at places. I mean how do you solder standing on your head? I like the idea of soldering all connectors but how is it done when i can hardly reach them. any tips?
Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: December 16, 2003 at 10:11 PM
If you are soldering properly, you start by with a clean and hot tip which is precoated with solder.
Next you heat up the target wire. You then place the solder above and opposite of the soldering iron, and let gravity do its work while you hold the iron steady.
All said and done, it should take you aprox 3-5 seconds to make a proper connection.
Even crimping takes longer than that, and does not ensure a 100% solid bond at all times.
So there you have it.
1. Iron Prep + Preheat + Opposite flow + Steady hand = Solid connection each time.
Regards
EVIL Teken . . .
Posted By: buslar
Date Posted: December 17, 2003 at 2:35 PM
I find I can solder almost as fast as any other method. I also can feel very sure I won't have any connection problems. I hate to see taps or scotchlock's as they always damage the base wire and if you put enough current through them they always fail. Take the time do the job right.
Posted By: AudioBAHNvlcm
Date Posted: December 17, 2003 at 6:19 PM
i usually just twist the wires together, and duct tape the hell out it.  nah im just kidding, solders the only way to go
Posted By: mikeshonda750
Date Posted: December 17, 2003 at 7:43 PM
Heh funny you should mention the twist and tape method. As alot of you know im a beginner, and this proved to be a BAD thing. Heh what were they thinking, take someone who is great at troubleshooting electronics, toss em under a dash and him be able to crank out remote starts in an hour?? YEP! Kinda off topic but not 100%. There brilliant idea on making me "quicker" was to hire a guy who has done them before and show me the secrets of it.. you know... the "Go for the ignition wires over here instead of WAY up there" or "Theres a door lock module right there, why take off the kick panel" type thing. Would be kinda cool... if he was showing me things to make me faster instead of doing a crappy hack job and jamming them out. There is one thing that makes him about 1/2 hour faster than me, and really... he wouldnt be faster than me if I had just a TAD more experience doing them. He uses the wrap and tape method and I CANNOT STAND IT! His excuese is "I havent had one come back yet" and "Feel the wires where i taped them up, there not going anywhere". I have put up a HELL of a fight about this install style and tho both owners of the company agree with me, we want to be soldering them, they both seem to be blinded by the $$$$$ because he takes less time. Less time staring at wiring diagrams, less time making connections. Sorry... had to let some of that off... been bothering the sh*t out of me BTW... soldering in tight places: I have found that if i cannot reach the wire with the soldering iron, I shouldnt be making ANY connection there. If you cant reach it with a soldering iron, how you gonna reach it to twist and poke... or how you gonna crimp the butt connector... not to mention... how you gonna tape it when your finished? If your not firmiliar with soldering... we use soldering irons, which are long and kinda skinny... like a 12inch screwdriver. 90% of the time... you have no troubles getting the iron onto the wire... and from there you just pull out enough solder and bend and twist it around to get you to the wire.... -------------
Posted By: italnpimp59
Date Posted: December 17, 2003 at 9:25 PM
i just use butt connectors....i install at at shop where the customers expect head units done in less than 30 minutes. plus for all the time it takes vs the money we make...its not worth it. ive never head a problem with buttconnectors as long as i crimp them good
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Posted By: mikeshonda750
Date Posted: December 17, 2003 at 9:44 PM
Heh actully... if you were to start soldering and get good at it... your costs would decrease, and your install times would improve, not to mention knowing its forever done. Yeah, no comebacks is great.... many times i have had to correct peoples mistakes because the customer was too pissed off about the shotty install job, and too worried they would screw it up again.
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Posted By: hotrodelectric
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 12:07 AM
That's one advantage to building complete electrical systems from scratch- I don't need to worry about taking 15 minutes too long to install a stereo, especially when I know in advance what's going in. I can pre-wire the head unit, amp and speakers, make the connections the way I want them, then merely install the components when the time comes. Crimp (or a solid mechanical twist), solder, shrink tube- it's almost a mantra with me. No scotchlocs, t-taps, end caps or wirenuts. No heat-gun meltable solder splices, no twist-and-tape. Yeah- it's time-consuming and in some cases difficult. But, in 20+
years of doing this, I don't have comebacks.
Posted By: bradleonard
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 4:14 AM
In my experience, soldering has its drawbacks just like crimp connectors. Crimp butt style connectors hold great 99% of the time, but blade and ring connectors always have a tendency to pull out. The problem with soldering is time, it always takes longer. Of course it a better connection, if you know how to solder, which many people don't. The key to soldering is a good regulated temp soldering station. I don't care what anyone says, you cannot solder faster than crimping. You are a hack if you solder that fast, or you are a really slow crimper. The bottom line is, Crimping and Soldering are the two standards. Anything else is incorrect.
I remember back in the day when we would use wire nuts. Surprisingly the usually held as good as anything.
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werd
Posted By: livewire 1096
Date Posted: December 22, 2003 at 3:35 AM
crimp or solder? i worker a shops that insisted one was better than the other. now i'm the owner. each has it's place and purpose. the key is which ever you use do it right. ------------- livewire 
Posted By: bobs94
Date Posted: December 23, 2003 at 12:53 AM
Head units = butt connectors + electrical tape over all wires together. Theory is one connection can not fail without them all failling.
Alarm/Remote Start = Solder + electrical tape over entire wire to blend them in to factory wiring.
Posted By: NINsane18
Date Posted: December 25, 2003 at 10:27 PM
LoL Evil Teken, I have been using non-lead solder forever, and read some of the previous posts where people mentioned the leaded melts so much faster. I was all pumped cause I found leaded solder, and it worked great, but a third arm wasnt what I had in mind 30 years from now  Hopefully we will be okay if we hold the solder in our hands and not in our teeth  ------------- Tim-May!
Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: December 26, 2003 at 11:41 AM
NINsane18 wrote:
Hopefully we will be okay if we hold the solder in our hands and not in our teeth
LOL, I know . . . But on a more serious side note. It is not the fact that the solder is in your teeth, it is from the gases that are emitted from the burning process which is present, while soldering. In the case where little children used to ingest the leaded paint flakes off the of walls. However you look at it, lead always did what it intended, whether it be for gas, paint, or solder. But the side affects of its use are what most people should be aware of. I already have a third leg, I rather have a third eye instead ! Regards EVIL Teken . . .
Posted By: n0risc
Date Posted: December 26, 2003 at 12:20 PM
The reason why top professional installers use this method, is for servicability and removability. The key for good alarm installation is not curring any wires in half, and leaving factory wires intact. The only wire you should ever cut in half in any vehicle alarm installation is the starter crank wire, thus it has to be broken by a relay. Possibly any anti-theft, passlock I&2, or transponder systems, those wires as well may have to be cut in half. Most vechicles bought today are a form of lease/rent and have to be returned in a specified time. Those that lease and want extra security tend to add aftermarket alarms. To avoid confusion and mishaps by cutting wires in half, and depending on reconnections that fail, it's best to keep the wire intact. The T-Tap method is great, but, they only come in specific AWG characteristics and I have found them being more of a nusiance than a time saver. Especially the unexperienced that cannot look at a naked wire, and dechipering the size of it. Plus, some wires have thicker jackets than other, but might be the same size. The T-tap cannot pierce through thick jacketed wire, such wires located on most ingition switches. Even though their mostly 12AWG, they look like 10AWG or 8AWG because of the jacket. I've seen some installers still actually strip the wire, and use a t-tap after that. Making the T-tap have to work less piercing through the jacket, but if you are wasting time doing the T-taps intended job, why not stick with the traditional method; which is Strip, Poke, Loop, Tape, and Ty Strap. This is by far the best way for servicability, removability, and furthermost, testing. What a pain in the ass to solder a connection, and then have to De-solder it to test a characteristic of its function. A complete utter waste. These are not aircrafts nor do they have to be installed like one. The difference in time between soldering, and loop taping, is almost double. I can say this, If you've installed alarms in a specific vechile so many times, where you can hook it up completely with every option available, and maybe its a friends or personal vehicle, go ahead and solder them if you wish. But, i dread the day the friend/customer/ or yourself want to remove the system. NO! its not proper to cut the wires and butt cap the ends, by anymeans. If some people want to be ANAL RENTENTIVE about installation, they are barking up the wrong tree. They should be anal rententive about removal, servicibility, with keeping installation time in mind. Any connection that requres a Butt Connector, or any type of crimp connector, you'd better learn the ways of double crimping, and knowing how to crimp properly. If you just take the connector and do not observe the 'slit' in the metal, you are crimping incorrectly. All crimp connectors, at least the good ones, will have a slit down the actual metal itself. You proceede to crimp in that direction first, and flipping 90 degrees and using the flat crimp to finish. The crimp when finished will look like a heart. n0risc
15 year veteran audio&alarm installations. mikeshonda750 wrote:
Strip, poke, slip through and twist method: No brainer here. Your BEGGING for people to come back with problems! Why not take an extra 10 seconds and solder it up and tape it up instead of "I TRIPLE tape my connections! Run a hose clamp around that and squeeze it down to ensure nothing is comming loose and i wire-tie that so the screw wont back off!" though i suppose the installer who uses this method doesent need any wire strippers, they just use their teeth!!
------------- 167.3
Posted By: mikeshonda750
Date Posted: December 26, 2003 at 6:26 PM
Are you REALLY that bored? -------------
Posted By: Teken
Date Posted: December 26, 2003 at 8:38 PM
mikeshonda750 wrote:
Are you REALLY that bored?
LMAO . . .
Posted By: superchuckles
Date Posted: January 02, 2004 at 4:45 AM
from an electrical integrity point of view, a clean soldered joint (with flux if necessary) is the best connection - but it's a waste of time if you're not using heat shrink tubing. however, having been in the auto industry for over 20 years now, i can tell you what does and doesn't work - scotch locks in my opinion (and everyone who i know that knows their salt about electrical) should be illegal in the united states - especially on a car where things don't just sit static day in and day out. i would rather twist wires into a pigtail and use masking tape (and i would too) than use a scotch lock. not only do they make one of the worst electrical connections known to man, but they often damage the origional wire you're tapping into. go to a circuit city - go to an auto electrical shop that does fleet work for police, etc - i can tell you from first hand experience what they use - stereo shops 90% of the time use crimp caps for all their connections, the other 10% of the time they use butt connectors on wire joints that are just straight splices. obviously lugs and spade ends, etc are just going to be the same thing (a crimp connector) with a lug end on the other side, or spade end on it, etc. some people don't like butt connectors, and will say they don't provide a good electrical connection over time - well, maybe - if it wasn't crimped on good in the first place, and you are using the lowest possible grade butt connector - but even then, i've seen them exposed to all the elements for 10+ years without a problem 1. for the neatest and fastest installs, nice clean and good connections, get yourself some snapon crimpers, and buy in bulk your butt splices - the good ones have the slim tube insulation on them where even the yellow (12g) butt connectors are only just barely larger than the wire itself. the cheap-o butt splices have really big ends and bulk up if you have to do 10 or more wires in a bundle. where bulk isn't a problem or you have a lot of wires tying to a single point, nothing beats crimp caps - plus they're easy to remove when crimped right in the first place. i can install a stereo in half the time using crimp caps and butt connectors that it takes someone to solder every connection, then heat shrink the tubing over all the splices, and i guarantee that the quality of the electrical connection even over a 5 or 10 year period would at most only be detectable with perhaps an oscilloscope at extreem settings.
Posted By: Focusedonsound
Date Posted: January 02, 2004 at 1:05 PM
Superchuckels please don't take this the wrong way. I understand that everyone is entitled to their opinion. And trust me when I say that I am by far the furthest thing from a professional but I do know this.
Just because its quicker....doesn't mean its the right way to do it. There will always be a number of different ways to solve a problem and the person who gets there the quickest isn't always the most successful. There are many reasons why I will NEVER (I say that extreamly strongly) bring any of my cars to any local sound shop. And that is becuase of the quality of service you receive.
I don't know about you but I work very hard for all the things that I have. And I am not about to loose it to a shop that takes 10 min to install a head unit becasue they wanted to cut corners and use crimp connectors. That is the # 1 reason why I know I am here and I think a lot of other enthusiests are here at this forum. We want to learn the correct ways of doing things. And we like to do them ourselvs. I would much rather sit down and take the extra however long it takes to solder my connections give them a tug make sure that they are secure. Heat shrink them/tape them and leave the connection knowing that the only think thats going to break that connection is just short of crushing the car. just my $0.02
Posted By: superchuckles
Date Posted: January 03, 2004 at 3:58 AM
Focusedonsound - it's ok, i don't take it the wrong way - but perhaps i should clarify what i mean by fastest. what i mean is, if i added every single install i've ever done, with every single return (and i mean return as in even if it was taken somewhere else) that was because of a problem with a connection i made, i can guarantee there is nobody, and i mean nobody - no world class record holder of soldering can even come close to touching the time it takes to use crimp connectors. that said, i have nothing against soldering. quite to the contrary, i would wager that i can solder better than the majority of people who do it daily - how many people do you know that can consistantly desolder and reflow ultra fine pitch surface mount chips without using expensive rework equipment, AND without damaging either chips or circuit boards? nothing beats solder for the very best electrical connection, strength, and it ends with the smallest connection (bulk wise). but - why go thru the trouble of making sure you do all that right, then just throwing it right out the window using electrical tape? if you're going to take that much time to do it right, for gods sake, do it right all the way and use heat shrink tubing and be a 100% professional instead of being a 50% professional. if you do electrical for a living, you can't afford to do solder/heat shrink because your costs will exceed your income - period. i know there's a lot of butcher shops out there, but - they wont stay in business either if all they do is butcher. i get almost all my work from referrals, and i get a LOT of it thank you very much.
Posted By: Overcranked23
Date Posted: January 03, 2004 at 8:22 AM
What the heck is a T-lok??? I dont really care to give an opinion thus it has been shared in the past post numerous times I will say that according to the MECP study guide that a poorly crimped connect can and will cause voltage loss and I have been known to cut wire thickness down to fit the in the But conector! I know I know but if the wire is a to big of a gauge anyway it dosen't matter!! Just solder your lazy if you don't and I am lazy ------------- don't fowl the track
Posted By: livewire 1096
Date Posted: January 03, 2004 at 5:22 PM
you guys will beat a horse. a bad crimp causes voltage drops. bad soldering causes voltage drop. time and mother nature cause voltage drop. crimp or solder, the key is to do it right. use good crimpers(aka staking tool) or sweet the solder into the wire correctly and you will have a good conection. if you don't you have problems. no matter what yo do you'll never be time and mothernature. all conections in the mobile environment break down over time. thats why its so important to do right the first time. the issue isn't whats faster or better. it's which one you are able to right in the shortest time. right being more important than the time. now can we let it go and move on to another horse to whip. (maybe like, less filing/taste great) ------------- livewire
Posted By: mikeshonda750
Date Posted: January 03, 2004 at 5:43 PM
It is a never ending debate... please reffer to my post above with the pic in it.... I would also like to know what a t-tap is... is it the scotch lok look alike that instead of having a blade in it that makes your connection, has a small screw in it that you tighten down into it? bah who cares.. solder/butt connectors/poke&tape/scotch lok's whatever, it doesent really matter, the butt connector guys will defend butt connectors regardless... same as the solder guys/poke&tape/ext. so it doesent really matter. Im curious though, while it is a great idea to use heatshrink on a soldered joint, what is the problem with electrical tape? Take a look through any professional/union electrician's tool belt or truck, 99% of the time you will find rolls and rolls of electrical tape(among other things such as wire nuts). Ya cant tell me professionals have been doing an unprofessional job for the past 100 years??? btw... cutting the wire size down (actully snipping strands of it off) so you can connect 2+ wires in the same end of a butt connector is a NO NO. thats why using butt connectors is such a bad thing, you cant take a 10gauge butt connector and expect to tie 2 10gauge wires into 1 end of it... and if you use a bigger connector, the other side is now tooo big for the single 10gauge wire... my theory on why people have problems with soldering is because they dont have the proper equipment avaliable and simply dont know how to solder correctly -------------
Posted By: livewire 1096
Date Posted: January 03, 2004 at 7:39 PM
a t-tap is only a slightly improved scotch lock. it's one peice that snaps aroond the wire piercing it. then you conect to using a spade connector in it's socket. pro electricians use mostly solid wire(which is one reason they can use wire nuts), don't solder and don't install in the mobile environment. so don't bring them into this little debate. it's apples and oranges. poke&tape is b.s. they should be assamed. like i said before you can't beat time and mothernature, so why give them a head start with poke and tape. talk about potential for voltage drop. i'm sad now the ravens lost. go green bay. ------------- livewire
Posted By: mikeshonda750
Date Posted: January 03, 2004 at 8:04 PM
Your right, they do work with solid wire and dont install in a mobile enviroment, thats why they can use wire nuts, yet you advocate the use of butt connectors? Im sorry, maybe you arent.... Im still wondering, why is electrical tape a bad thing? something that has been used in the mobile enviroment for years and years sucessfully. Comparing apples to apples, instead of asking that union/pro electrician... ask a professional auto mechanic... no some young punk who just got his papers... but someone who has had to take the ASE tests a few times... while solder+heatshrink is the preffered method among all of us, where heatshrink isnt an option doesent mean soldering shouldnt be
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Posted By: superchuckles
Date Posted: January 03, 2004 at 9:42 PM
first off, an electrician uses tape only to do one of a few things usually - 1, to temporarily insulate something, 2 (and this is by far and away the most common use) to mark the proper phase of the wire) and 3, (this is very close to number 2) to bundle wires together tightly for a "pull". very very seldom are there instances where an electrician (commercial or residental) will use tape on a connection. they will almost always use wire nuts, because that's what code calls for. now, getting that out of the way, the reason i prefer not to use tape in a car is the high amount of heat that happens in summer in a car. i live in california, and when it gets to 110 outside, it's 180 in your car. after 1 year, the tape has the sticking power of old transmission fluid on the bottom of a car. the best built harnesses use heat shrink, for several reasons, probably the main one being that it is a permanent insulator as close as you're going to get to the origional insulation on the wire. that's why i've said that if you have the time to go ahead and solder your joints professionally, why do a second rate job insulating it? solder is permanent, why not make you insulation job equally permanent. that's all.
Posted By: FYRHWK1
Date Posted: January 04, 2004 at 2:21 AM
superchuckles wrote:
go to a circuit city - go to an auto electrical shop that does fleet work for police, etc - i can tell you from first hand experience what they use - stereo shops 90% of the time use crimp caps for all their connections, the other 10% of the time they use butt connectors on wire joints that are just straight splices.
I can't say anything for the other shops, but I've been working for circuit city for a good amount of time now, and unless we're crimping a spade or ring terminal on to a wire for a connection to a speaker terminal/amp/etc we solder. It doesn't look bad for me to hardwire a radio up and take an extra 5 minutes to solder/tape everything (and it only does add about 5 minutes, I tried caps in the exact same car doing a similar radio, both came to us with the harness missing). It does however look bad if a car comes back with a pissed off owner and a repair bill that he got screwed on because one of my connections came loose, shorted and blew a fuse. I'm not knocking crimps, I just solder and tape more, its worth the time if you're doing good installs IMO. Heatshrink is another matter, that does add a good bit of time, at least in my experience, and I can't say ive ever heard of tape coming off even in heat, assuming you tape properly in the first place.
Posted By: jayts95
Date Posted: January 04, 2004 at 4:03 PM
I just wanted to add my 2 cents. Soldering is great and all, but twisting and taping wires is fine also if you do it correctly. Do whatever you feel comfortable with. I have used both methods and they have both worked fine. I noticed some comments on the use of heatshrink. That stuff is awesome. The only problem is the cost and the fact that you have to cut the wires to use this method.
Posted By: superchuckles
Date Posted: January 12, 2004 at 7:59 AM
you may have to cut the wires, but the connection becomes permanent - if i solder a connection and use heat shrink over it, it is as good or better than the factory job, and guaranteed not to come apart without the wire itself breaking - ever. twisting and tape is when all you have is tape, because just twisting the wire will make an ok connection for the moment, but the problem is there is nothing to bond the wires together should the adheasive on the tape fail (and unless it's the real good 3M stuff, the adheasive will fail after 1 or two summers under that hot dash or in that hot trunk, etc) -- then the only strength against some tug on the wire will be your twist..... and unless you tied it in a square knot or something, it's likely to give. also, tape is slow (though faster in comparison to heat shrink - depending on how much taping /heat shrinking you need to do) - so like i've said before, if you've got the time, or if you're building a show car that every bit of the harness is under the scrutiny of everyone, then solder and heat shrink (even offered in colors that can match your existing insulation) is the way to go. if you are running a stereo shop, and you can't get your installers to work for .75 cents an hour, or you can't get them to do 50 splices, solder joints, heat shrinks in 10 minutes time all over the car, sometimes (too many times usually) in cramped quarters, then crimp connectors are the way to go. they already have their necessary insulation, and when you've practiced it - even a little, you get very proficient at stripping the correct lengths, and crimping connections very quickly.
Posted By: markcars
Date Posted: February 23, 2004 at 4:39 PM
First off, I am not an auto professional. I don't know if this is a terrible idea or not, but the last few times I worked on my car, I soldered the connections and then surrounded the bare wires with a glue gun, then tape it for looks/extra safety. Just a problem though, is when you have to remove the connection. If you cut the wires where the glue is stuck, then its ok. Please tell me if I am doing something wrong.
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