shady shop ripping off customers

Alright guys, I've noticed that over the years, many shops around my area have been ripping people off, selling crap as high-end equipment, overcharging for crap installs, frying people's own equipment on purpose(to sell them one to replace it) messing up people's cars, blowing out fuse boxes, deploying air bags, frying ECU's, programming (3) remotes to an alarm, and only giving the customer (2)....to later steal all their stuff. and a lot of other things.

None of this has ever happened to me, but many customers have come to me to fix thier installations. I feel really bad for some of these people because they work really hard and save up money to have a little system and then they get shafted, and all thier hard work is down the drain.

Does a shop need any type of licensing to be able to do installations? Can a shop charge tax on the installation labor?

What kind of things should a shop be doing or not doing as far as installations? Should these shops be reported to anyone?

I have customers that are really wized and want to take action against these shady shops. I'd like help my customers out so that these sort of things don't keep on happening to people.

I'm pretty sure that labor is not taxable.

I have discussed this with my accountant, and in Canada our labour IS taxable. (GST) I am not sure about PST (no PST in Alberta)but the GST is. "Goods and SERVICES Tax".

Labor is not taxed in mi, but that is under review. You would have to check with your state and local goverments concerning any laws about proper licensing. As far as shady work there is civil action that can be taken in the case they are wronged by a shop. I personaly would just keep doing  quality work and not get to involved as if they are shady enough to screw people over and steal equipment from customers they may be inclined to burn your shop down etc........Just my 2 cents.

In mn certain labor is taxable, in wi it is not. I tax everything, easier on the books, to compensate for that I dont charge a shop suppliy charge either.. And I have never been questioned on it. In mn when the labor tax went into effect it was a royal pain, no one knew what to tax so the shop got screwed by uncle sam, and the customers would complain about it on the invoice. so there we finnally started taxing everything also. The better buisiness beurua is a really good place to report shops like that. or internet sites like Angies list ect ... If I blew something up on a customers car I guess I'm just too honest, I get them a rental car and pay for the entire bill plus give them a voucher for their next visit. I've only had 1 guy that has been ready to spit nails at me, but ya can't please everybody. It's too bad there are shops that do that type of stuff. It gives us all a bad rap. I have the guys that do things out of their trunks and don't warrenty their work or are gone the next day, and because they bought the stuff on the net, the dealer or custmer comes to me for the factory warrenty. I hate to tell anybody where the bear doodies in the woods, but sometimes ya just have to explain it to them flat out. You paid 200 for an install that I would have charged 4-500 on. if you would have paid the money and thought about it, then you wouldn't be in the mess your in now! Number one is you wouldn't be here, number 2 if there is a problem it will be fixed timely and properly and free of charge.   I had some guy cuss me out over that one too..   Bed liners are another fly by night operation around here, they under cut me, then go and steal the dealer buisiness cuz of their lowball price. Then out of business they go, and the customer is stuck holding the bag.. a substandard product that is not preforming, and really can't be fixed unless someone with the same product is willing to do it. What a PITA!

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Tire Proz Stillwater Mn
High End Restyling and Comlete Repair

evileagletalon wrote:

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Alright guys, I've noticed that over the years, many shops around my area have been ripping people off, selling crap as high-end equipment, overcharging for crap installs, frying people's own equipment on purpose(to sell them one to replace it) messing up people's cars, blowing out fuse boxes, deploying air bags, frying ECU's, programming (3) remotes to an alarm, and only giving the customer (2)....to later steal all their stuff. and a lot of other things.

None of this has ever happened to me, but many customers have come to me to fix thier installations. I feel really bad for some of these people because they work really hard and save up money to have a little system and then they get shafted, and all thier hard work is down the drain.

Does a shop need any type of licensing to be able to do installations? (A) Can a shop charge tax on the installation labor? (B)

What kind of things should a shop be doing or not doing as far as installations? Should these shops be reported to anyone? (C)

I have customers that are really wized and want to take action against these shady shops. (D) I'd like help my customers out so that these sort of things don't keep on happening to people.

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A: This varies from location to location. Most states require that a business license is required to start up a shop, but no licensing is required to work there. The best thing to do would be to talk to the permit and licensing authorities for the area. In the case of big box companies many require the employee be at least mecp basic (bronze) before they can be hired.

B: Again this varies from location to location, but tax cannot be added on unless it is required by law to tax labor. Adding labor tax to a bill where it is not obligated by law to add tax constitutes fraud and is a VERY serious offense.

C: All problems with any shop (the trouble makers, yours, or even the one I work at) should be submitted to BBB (Better Business Bureau for those who don't already know) and have them involved as much as possible. That way a record of any shady business is retained and should a certain amount of problems occur, an audit and review can be commissioned to take action.

D: Have a record of all the problems you have encountered doing RRs (Restore/Repair) on vehicles that have come from shops in question. Ask that the customer keep an extra copy of the receipt somewhere safe and have a statement filled. Once you think you have enough statements and records filled, I would look for any patterns and report them to local authorities. Something else I would do is to have the customer say to the shop in question, "Show me how you found how the situation came about"

There are a lot of ways to help protect your customers and yourself. Just make sure you watch your back and keep your installs clean too. Not trying to make you feel threatened but what I mean is make sure your moves are legal and backed by local authorities.

Given some time (A few cases I am aware of took about 8-12 months to really have effect) shady shops will get the picture and start getting legitimate jobs on order and fewer shady ones. The shops may not like you after that, but the important thing is that the customers know you are about them, not just their wallet. Simply put, one good experience and a customer will tell 10 people about it. Give them a bad experience and they'll tell 100 people about it.

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Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.

Make sure that you have proof of all these claims against the shops because if you do not, then the shops can counter sue you for slander. Just trying to save your buddies an embarassing situation and money.

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Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA

Velocity Motors wrote:

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Make sure that you have proof of all these claims against the shops because if you do not, then the shops can counter sue you for slander. Just trying to save your buddies an embarassing situation and money.

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Ohh believe me, I have bags of rca's that were cut, and re-connected with a different brand RCA to make a single RCA, then sold to the customer as "brand new".

About 9 decks that have the speaker outputs fried,....the RCA's work, but the speaker outputs don't. These were sold to them as "brand new"

I have a stack of pictures of shady jobs...

I should charge more to R/R these people's sound systems, but I feel bad for these people.

I work with a company in MS and I know we have to tax labor because it is considered a service. I don't have any problems with shady businesses, but I have a horrible problem with people that come here wanting us to fix what "Their partner" installed.... But hey.... we're in the business to make money, right?

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...don't crush the weasel...

Yes but first and formost, the loyalty should be to the customer themselves. If a shop carries a bad reputation, then they'll lost customers and money. Would you buy a car that is known to be a lemon and not told about it? We are in it to make the money, but there is also a code of ethics that people SHOULD abide by. What else are they to be determined then except as con-artists? Also such practices such as re-wiring and selling items that are known to be fried with no notes can be considered false advertising or lemon sales. In many states that constitutes fraud at various levels.

Again as stated earlier by both VM and myself, keep records on EVERYTHING you can and do not present information that can be considered incomplete to officials as evidence. Again cover your backside and make sure that the laws and officials are used properly and backing you up before making any moves. Make sure that teh customer also has a copy of the work you find suspect as well if the authorities question them regarding the matter as well. Get in touch with BBB as well as support reference on suspect shops.

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Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.

evileagleton wrote:

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Ohh believe me, I have bags of rca's that were cut, and re-connected with a different brand RCA to make a single RCA, then sold to the customer as "brand new".

About 9 decks that have the speaker outputs fried,....the RCA's work, but the speaker outputs don't. These were sold to them as "brand new"

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There was a thread.. I can't seem to find it to link to it.. over in the "car audio" section where the poster had bought a JL300/4 from a shop.. amp had a bad front channel... so the installer sold it to the poster along with the install.  So the poster started having problems with the amp right away and posted some pictures of the amp and how it was wired.  The installer wired the front speakers to the rear outputs and paralleled the rears to the front channel that wasn't bad.

My own experiences with shops have never been like this though... I've only paid to have two things installed in my life and niether of them were stereo gear.  Usually just horridly rude and smarmy know-it-alls behind the counter. 

evileagleton wrote:

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I have a stack of pictures of shady jobs...

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I always get a kick out of stuff like this.  Post one or two of them would ya?

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview