Is Working For Free Ok?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Discription: General Mobile Electronics Questions and Answers
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=94617
Printed Date: April 27, 2024 at 1:29 PM
Topic: Is Working For Free Ok?
Posted By: tex12gage
Subject: Is Working For Free Ok?
Date Posted: June 08, 2007 at 6:06 AM
Hey...I've been installing on my own for about 8 years now. I've been to an audio school, and I'm good with installs and fabrication. I already have a good job with great pay, so I'm not interested in that....What I want is more experience. I get alot of time off with my current job. (i work 12 hour days so I only work 14 days a month, and I get a full week off every 3 weeks). I have a local shop that does a great job...So my question is: Would it be appropriate to ask him for some experience. He wouldn't have to pay me. I'd just like to work for him for better experience, So I can hopefully Open my own place eventually. What do ya'll think?...Especially shop owners. . ------------- TEX
Replies:
Posted By: duct tape
Date Posted: June 08, 2007 at 7:14 AM
it cant hurt to ask. the only problem that i can see, would be the insurance risk. i'm not sure if he could have someone that wasnt technically an employee, working on customer's cars, or be working in a shop with many tools that could potentially harm you if handled wrong.
-------------
Posted By: tex12gage
Date Posted: June 11, 2007 at 9:08 PM
Yeah I didn't even think about the insurance part of the deal.... Anybody else got any input? ------------- TEX
Posted By: dtpaudio
Date Posted: June 13, 2007 at 12:47 PM
Wow. I had an experience like this about six months ago. I took what was supposed to be a two week apprenticeship leading to a job and wound up getting burnt on the deal. Fourteen hour days for two weeks just to have him try to turn it in to more free labor. I'm not sure how he pulled it off insurance-wise, but it just wasn't a good experience being that low on the totem-pole.
-------------
Be loud,be obnoxious,man up, and bounce with a legend.
Posted By: madfleet
Date Posted: August 04, 2007 at 8:08 PM
As a shop owner, I would have only two concerns. 1. Would you be insulted, and/or willing to, if you were asked to not only assist with installs, but all other things associated with our business, like getting lunch, sweeping floors, helping customers, picking up, performing vehicle checklists, etc.? (basically be a true team player, even if its only honorary,) and; 2. If the experience and relationships you gain would be used against me as competition? (i.e. recruiting my employees, soliciting my customers, any trade secrets or relationships I/my company has.)
Posted By: swerks
Date Posted: August 06, 2007 at 10:41 PM
If you are an experienced installerof 8 years you should be getting paid for your work!!! I do not give my work away to anyone(maybe family and very close friends) Installers are worth $$$$
get paid!!!
-------------
Steve Sverdahl
Swerksound Auto Electric
Red Deer Alberta
Posted By: madfleet
Date Posted: August 07, 2007 at 4:11 PM
8 yrs. doing your own stuff is not the same as working as a pro for 8 yrs. you want to learn you pay. if free labor is all you have then that is what you offer. schools charge to teach regardless of your experience level. if you don't work for free then why teach for free?
Posted By: swerks
Date Posted: August 08, 2007 at 11:39 AM
the owner of the shop in your town should have no problem putting you on the payroll. to me work=$$$ no matter what. i would want at least a small wage. Ive seen a lot of shop owners "teach for work" and i believe that not being paid also means that there is not really alot off accountability for you to do good work if you are being paid you are acountable
-------------
Steve Sverdahl
Swerksound Auto Electric
Red Deer Alberta
Posted By: madfleet
Date Posted: August 09, 2007 at 6:09 PM
I disagree. I started that way and I work with several school districts in Florida giving students an opportunity to learn. I don not pay them. You know, I "teach them for work". Oh, and by the way accountability is learned, not purchased.
Posted By: liinstaller
Date Posted: August 09, 2007 at 7:51 PM
The reason for working hard is to show the shop owner that it would benefit him to put you on the payroll as an employee.
Posted By: swerks
Date Posted: August 13, 2007 at 2:01 PM
well. here is an example of sorts. in the early days politiciand an judges werent paid. as a result they often did whatever they wanted. this led to vast corruption throught govt in north america so they became paid employees of the govt therefore holding them %100 resonsible for what they do. sure there is still corruption in govt but nowhere near the level that it was. accountability is not learned especially for some one who has no legal endearment to their work.however quality workmanship is learned and there should be no reason a shop cannot pay while training except for cheapness
work for free? not me!!!
-------------
Steve Sverdahl
Swerksound Auto Electric
Red Deer Alberta
Posted By: madfleet
Date Posted: August 13, 2007 at 5:26 PM
Well, I guess it is good that we are not politicians or judges. Thanks for the history lesson. Was that free, or should I send a check? Since, I assume you have no direct experience with these examples, other than reading a book or two, or what a peer told you about his shop, I am having difficulty understanding your argument. I am speaking from experience. Direct experience. Accountability is learned and taught, Not paid for. If the person is crap, he's/she's crap, I don't care what you pay him/her, or what task you put in front of them. Why would you bring someone on board, if it is just to get paid. We hire people that enjoy the biz and work. Chances are, if someone wants to learn, they will do whatever it takes to do well. We do numbers many shop's dream of, and we teach for work. No one asked you to work for free. No one expects you to. Make your money. But don't tell someone else it is wrong, because you don't agree, if they have a true desire to better themselves.
Posted By: swerks
Date Posted: August 13, 2007 at 5:30 PM
I hire people for one reason to make money for my company that is what buisness is all about. but i guess guys that hire on the "work for lessons" basis know that
work for free?
not me!
-------------
Steve Sverdahl
Swerksound Auto Electric
Red Deer Alberta
Posted By: moto17
Date Posted: August 13, 2007 at 6:12 PM
i'm trying to get in the industry,and i'm having issues getting started do to experience.i agree i would work to learn,learning is all i'm interested in! plus that is a chance to proove yourself and maybe get a paying job.for me apprenticeship may be all i have.if you can afford to do something like that you should (KNOWELEDGE=$$$$)
Posted By: swerks
Date Posted: August 13, 2007 at 6:28 PM
keep applying do you live in an area with big box stores they are a great place to get a start nowadays and will pay you to learn, and usually pay for your mecp as well. if that route doent work mobile dynamics has funding sources avaliable call them! you could qualify for govt funding. they are the best school of its kind in the world hands down! thhey will help you get a job when you graduate!
-------------
Steve Sverdahl
Swerksound Auto Electric
Red Deer Alberta
Posted By: moto17
Date Posted: August 13, 2007 at 10:30 PM
i live in michigan,and i have been to best buy and more in a 60mile radius.most are not hiring ,some need more experience.i already am mecp certified.mobile dynamics has already been a thought, but not a real possibility.
Posted By: swerks
Date Posted: August 13, 2007 at 10:47 PM
try the car dealerships many of them are now hiring in house installers, if you are mecp and can install alarms and starters one may hire you try it out. i live in alberta where the economy is probally thestrongest in the world right now and finding work is easy.move to alberta haha
-------------
Steve Sverdahl
Swerksound Auto Electric
Red Deer Alberta
Posted By: moto17
Date Posted: August 14, 2007 at 2:40 AM
thats a good idea that i had not thought of.michigans economy is not the greatest,probably one of the worst,so relocation seems better every day.thanks for all your advice
Posted By: swerks
Date Posted: August 14, 2007 at 8:40 AM
[QUOTE=moto17] thats a good idea that i had not thought of.michigans economy is not the greatest,probably one of the worst,so relocation seems better every day.thanks for all your advice[/QUOTE
one of the best jobs ive ever had was for a large ford dealer. almost wish i was still there, almost.
-------------
Steve Sverdahl
Swerksound Auto Electric
Red Deer Alberta
Posted By: swerks
Date Posted: August 14, 2007 at 8:46 AM
moto17 wrote:
i live in michigan,and i have been to best buy and more in a 60mile radius.most are not hiring ,some need more experience.i already am mecp certified.mobile dynamics has already been a thought, but not a real possibility.
it can be a possibility for anyone, especially americans a the us govt has funding for mobile dynamics. i am a canadian and couldnt get funding because our govt have any. the toronto campus is not far from michigan. i would call them what have you got to lose its a toll free call ------------- Steve Sverdahl
Swerksound Auto Electric
Red Deer Alberta
|