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I cant paint worth crap

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Fiberglass, Fabrication, and Interiors
Forum Discription: Fiberglass Kick Panels, Subwoofer Enclosures, Plexiglas, Fabrics, Materials, Finishes, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=54218
Printed Date: March 29, 2024 at 3:27 AM


Topic: I cant paint worth crap

Posted By: 95Pony
Subject: I cant paint worth crap
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 10:23 AM

Ok, I reviewed this forum looking for info on painting. Yes, I read "Painting fiberglass for beginners and I found it quite dissapointing. Now ultimately , I would like to achieve my look with good ol' spray paint. In the painting fiberglass for beginners its very contradictery, one spot says its just as good and another says it looks like crap. Well, which is it? Ive seen some spray paint jobs and they definetly didnt look like crap. Ive used bondo body filler and sanded the crap out of it using 220 then 300 then 600. I stoppede at 600. Should i go up to 1500 and ultimately up to 2000? Also, anyone know which brands are good. Rustoleom or? Wal-Mart guy wasnt much help. Thanks for your help This is what ive done so far. Doesnt look very good...

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Replies:

Posted By: Francious70
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 10:45 AM
posted_image

Paul




Posted By: Dyson
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 11:20 AM

if the piece is currently in paint, you need to sand from 800, 1000, 1200 and 1500, then apply a clear coat. Dont go past 1500 as the clear wont stick to well.

Rule of thumb.

600 grit wet - ready for primer - then 600 and 800grit wet - ready for paint - tack cloth between coats and apply 2-3 coats.- then wet sand with 800 and 1500 - ready for clear - apply 3-4 coats of medium wet clears coats. - wet sand with 800 and 1500 and then 2000 grit papers. then buff with a fine rubbing compound and polish with a super resin polish. then stand back admire your work, if it looks crap stop trying and take it to a body shop!

hope this helps you out!





Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 11:50 AM
Yeah that did help, but ive got another questions. I tried wet sanding and wasnt too happy. Everyone says wet sand your paint and then clear coat it. When i wet sand the paint it looks faded and like crap. Why would I want to clear over the faded crappy look after wet sanding. Thanks for the tips though and any others would be great!!!




Posted By: oonikfraleyoo
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 12:09 PM
Try rubbing compound on either a buffer or with some elbow grease.

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Nik
Jeeputer Progress
[|||||||||||-] 90%
Check it out.




Posted By: Rick_h
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 12:32 PM

95Pony wrote:

Yeah that did help, but ive got another questions. I tried wet sanding and wasnt too happy. Everyone says wet sand your paint and then clear coat it. When i wet sand the paint it looks faded and like crap. Why would I want to clear over the faded crappy look after wet sanding. Thanks for the tips though and any others would be great!!!

Do not worry about what the base coat looks like after you wet sand in prep for clear coat.  The clear coat will give you the gloss back.

Looks like your peice has some oranage peel to it.  Thats a phenomana and has to do with temp, humidity and application rate and thickness and drying time.  Some of which are out of your control.  I have layed on a laquer primer only to have it dry as it hit the work peice.  What a mess, a bunch of little balls of paint!

Do not try and apply thick coats in an attempt to smooth it out.  Put enough coats of paint on to sand a coat off during wet sanding or as it is termed in the body world, color sanding. Final wipe, tack and then clear coat.  Follow same guidelines with clear coat as color coat.

Rick H...





Posted By: 95Pony
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 1:53 PM
Hey thanks again for the tips.  So is it true it takes like 3 or 4 coats of spray paint to equal one coat of automotive? Maybe my problem is I laid too thick of layers. Just lays really thin coats right? Do i  have to wait a long time to apply the next coat? The can says to wait a few minutes (like 10) and any brands that are good that people could reccomend would be great. And also, Ive heard Rage Gold is far superior to regular bondo brand. Is that true? Is it worth going to the trouble to get it instead? Thanks again everyone for helping a newbie (Hey I only just turned 17!)




Posted By: DukeDuke
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 4:39 PM
Rage gold is nice, so is bondo. It is all a matter of personal preference and what you are doing with it, some like Rage, some like Bondo, some dont want to touch either of them. The best thing to get is the spray bondo from Select Products, I have never heard a bad thing about it, everyone I have talked to loves it. As far as paint goes, unless you want to paint it again in a year-couple years, go with a quality paint, go to Sherwin-Williams Auto, they sale good stuff, as well keep your eyes open for a SEM paint and PPG. That crap wal-mart sales aint gonna cut it. Spend the extra couple dollars and get good stuff! Hope I was some help!

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Duke Duke




Posted By: Rick_h
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 6:17 PM
Some body supply shops can custom mix the color and then put it in a spray can for you, cost like 22 bucks a can, not cheap but way better than the walmart stuff. I also like BPS (Best Paint Sold)I get from Tractor Supply Store (TSC). It is like 5 bucks a can but goes on real nice and last.
As for filler, I have been using half time by USC. Great stuff! I went to pick up some Rage Gold today the supplier hit me with a free gallon of USC filler and hardner to try. I bit, what a mistake, it is total crap compared to Half Time or Rage Gold or Rage Extreme. Going to go and get what I went for in the first place! The projects I am working are are too small for power tools so hand sanding everything, I want the best filler I can get! My vote, Half Time or Rage.
By the way, your first coat of paint should be thin. You need to get something down for the other coats to stick to. Follow what ever the can says and weather makes a BIG difference, I mean BIG difference.
Rick H...




Posted By: oonikfraleyoo
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 7:54 PM
I just used Half Time for the first time this weekend. I have to say that is some goog stuff. I may even like it better than my beloved Rage. Not sure yet. I am sure that I hate Bondo. They make ok FG resin but the body filler is crap.

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Nik
Jeeputer Progress
[|||||||||||-] 90%
Check it out.




Posted By: Rick_h
Date Posted: April 19, 2005 at 8:38 PM
For me SMC resin, but at 75 bucks a gallon! Ouch. Damn good stuff though. I tried Evercoat the other night, crap wen't right back to SMC.
I can use a peice of emory cloth on Half Time for hours, but with the crap filler in about 5 minutes its plugged.
So in the long run, maybe the better more costly supplies are worth it.
I do not worry to much about paint coat, to get back on his topic, as I use a texture coat and interior paint on the projects I am working on. That texture coat sure can hide alot!
Rick H...




Posted By: Dyson
Date Posted: April 20, 2005 at 3:14 AM

As Rick said, it really doesnt matter what the base coat looks like once you have wet sanded it, as long as the whole piece is smooth and doesnt have any cracks or scratches, the clear coat brings this out. Spray painting really does take a lot of practice, but once you follow the basic method you will pick it up quite easily. If you have a lot of orange peel on the clear, wet sand with 600, 800 and then 1500 and apply another coat.

Colour coats are best applied thin, wait 10, tack cloth it, and then apply another. Repeat the process.

Clear coats are best applied a little thicker, but this takes practice to make sure you dont have any runs in the piece, you will be tempted to spray it on thick so you get it done quicker, but in the long run you will be way better off taking your time, than having to sand the whole lot off and start again! If you have any more questions fire away! posted_image





Posted By: abovestock
Date Posted: June 11, 2005 at 3:38 AM
Orange peel happens no matter what, does not depend on sht. You need to wet sand the clear with 800 to 1000 to 1500 to 2000 to 2500 (2500 if you are feeling froggy) and then polishing compound. For best results buy a small air compressor, a jamb gun(small HVLP) and some good paint, this is the only real way to achieve the best paint job possible. Trust me the investment pays off




Posted By: audiomechanic
Date Posted: June 12, 2005 at 2:00 PM
ok, there seems to be a little bit of confusion about painting here. I am not gonna try and say that the projects you guys are doing are not turning out good (I have never seen any of them). What I will say, is that some of the things you guys are doing are not correct or condoned by the paint manufacturers, and can shorten the life of the paint job or cause problems.

first i will start with fillers and sanding:

most of your filler sanding can be done with 36 or 40 grit. there is no need to go higher than 80 grit. Most of the filler or sanding primers will fill in the sanding scratches. Body fillers are used to smooth out low spots and make things as "flat" as possible. By "flat" i mean no waves in the piece. As a rule use the filler approperiate for the situation;
long hair fiberglass filler- 1/2-1/4 inch deep
short hair fiberglass filler- 1/4-1/8 inch deep
body filler- 1/8 or less
spot filler(2K glazing putty)- pin holes or very minor imperfections

Primers:

after you are satisfied with the way it looks and are sure you got out all the major flaws, it is time for the Polyester primer. It takes MEKP as the hardener just like resin does. some brands sand easier than others. I use Featherfill G2 by Evercoat. A few of the other brands i have used with good results are Omni MX245, Duratec, and Sherwin Williams 21. Apply 2-3 coats over areas with filler and 2-3 coats over the entire project for a total of 4-6 coats using a 2.0mm tip. After the poly primer cures (1-3 hours), spray a guide coat. This can be any contrasting color. some people use a light coat of black spray paint, but 3M and others sell guide coat in a can. sand it with 180 grit. USE A SANDING BLOCK or a DA. Never sand without something between your fingers and the sandpaper. It can and most of the time will leave little low spots from your finger tips and/ or palm. Sand the poly primer to 400-600 grit making sure to get rid of all the sanding scratches from the previous grit. If you break through the poly primer dont worry. Once you are at 400-600 grit, of there are large area where the filler is showing, spray a couple more light coats of primer on those spots. If there are just a couple small patches, don't worry about it. If there are any imperfections such as cracks, deep scratches, pin holes, fabric showing through or anything at all, FIX IT NOW. it is your last chance. If all is good, mix up a 2K sealer primer. this give an even color and surface for the base coat (color) to adhere to. sealer should not be sanded unless it is to remove dirt or other things in the primer. if you need to sand it, look at the can to make sure you do not need apply another coat. all you are looking for is even coverage, not thick filling coats like the other primers. most sealers need to sit for at least 1-2 hours before the color can be applied. if left longer than 24 hours, they need to be scuffed and another coat needs to be applied for maximum adhesion.

Base (Color) coat:
get the color code from the car and have the paint mixed to match. Because of the fade some cars have it is wise to shoot a test piece to make sure the paint match is pretty close. if not it can be altered(tinted) at the paint store. Using a 1.3 -1.5mm tip in your gun spray thin coats. depending on the sealer used it may take a few to get an even color over the entire piece(s). usually it takes 2-3 coats for even coverage waithin at least 10 minutes between coats. If there is any dirt in the base color, wet sand with 600-800 grit then reapply the base. This is recommended by ALL the paint manufacturers!!!! once an even color is achieved, let it sit for at least 1 hour before applying the clear. mose base colors can sit for a few days with out top coating. if they sit longer than recommended, there might be an issue with the clear not sticking to the color.

Clear coat:
This is the step that brings out the shine and true color of the base coat. It is also will also show any imperfections that you may not have caught before. at this point if you have a pinhole you missed or sanding scratches, you are stuck with them unless you want so sand back through all of the clear and base to fix them. Use the a slower reducer to help the clear flatten or lay down. the downside to using a slower reducer is that the flash time is a little longer between coats and has a little more time to collect dust and other stuff in the air. but the benifit is there is less orange peel.
Spray the clear coat with a 1.2-1.5mm tip (i use a 1.3mm). It works good to apply a lighter layer as a tack coat let it sit for about 10 minutes then shoot on 2-3 medium-heavy wet coats waiting about 10-15 minutes in between coats. when the clear is ready for the next coat, you should be able to touch it and not have it stringy when you remove your finger. make sure you touch an area that will NOT be seen. once you have applied all the coats of clear let it sit over night (12 hours).

Wetsanding:
sand with 1500 or 2000 grit using a DA or sanding block and sand paper. make sure the entire surface is dull (no shiny spots). using a buffing machine, foam pad, and compound, buff it out. start with a rubbing compound, then machine glaze. use a different foam pad for each different compound. dont turn the machine up too fast or you will burn throught the clear (1500-1800 rpms).   

I hope that cleared up some things and will get you practicing with a more accurate picture of the process in your mind.



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