Duramix 4058
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Fiberglass, Fabrication, and Interiors
Forum Discription: Fiberglass Kick Panels, Subwoofer Enclosures, Plexiglas, Fabrics, Materials, Finishes, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=86227
Printed Date: May 17, 2024 at 9:39 PM
Topic: Duramix 4058
Posted By: bigpete123
Subject: Duramix 4058
Date Posted: November 26, 2006 at 2:53 PM
Hello, I am looking for a product substitute for Bondo that will adhere to both plastic and fiberglass. Obviously Bondo does not stick to fiberglass, at least in the long term. I have heard people recommend Duramix 4058 for this. But when I go to 3M's website, their description of 4058 does not specifically mention whether the stuff will adhere to fiberglass. I'm going to make custom speaker pods in my doors, and I want to "feather" the fiberglass work into the existing plastic panel. Thanks!! Peter
Replies:
Posted By: maliboom
Date Posted: November 26, 2006 at 8:19 PM
Body filler will work if you add FG resin to the bondo instead of the cream hardner, it makes it stonger. Also make sure the plastic surface is sanded before glassing, using 80 grit will help the fiberglass adhere better to the panel. I find that whenever I apply a new layer sanding the base always gives a solid result.
Posted By: bigpete123
Date Posted: November 27, 2006 at 9:24 AM
Yeah, I have heard people say that sanding the plastic helps, but I have also heard people say that technique will only hold up for a year or two. You're confident this is a long-term solution? Also, quick correction to my first post. I said "bondo does not stick to fiberglass". I meant "bondo does not stick to plastic". Thanks!
Posted By: maglin
Date Posted: November 27, 2006 at 10:50 AM
*blinks* find out if bondo sticks to primer. heh. i don't think it should... but there's gotta be a way to prep that surface. you could always mold and glass that plastic peice. hehe.
Posted By: bigpete123
Date Posted: November 27, 2006 at 5:35 PM
Okay, so I sent an email to 3M customer service. FYI, here is their response. It was very helpful: Peter,
All of the Duramix products are urethane formulations and body fillers
cannot be put over urethanes. That being the case, we suggest that you use
an epoxy based product such as the 3M(TM) Automix(TM) EZ Sand Rigid Parts
Repair Kit, 05883. This product can be used as an adhesive and a filler on
both fiberglass and plastic. Since the type of plastic is unknown, we
suggest you use the 3M(TM) Automix(TM)Polyolefin Adhesion promoter, 05907
on the plastic only to ensure adhesion.
If you have any questions, please call us toll free at the number below.
Regards,
Thomas
3M Automotive Aftermarket Division
www.3m.com/automotive
1-877-666-2277
Posted By: killer sonata
Date Posted: November 27, 2006 at 5:46 PM
maliboom wrote:
Body filler will work if you add FG resin to the bondo instead of the cream hardner, it makes it stonger. Also make sure the plastic surface is sanded before glassing, using 80 grit will help the fiberglass adhere better to the panel. I find that whenever I apply a new layer sanding the base always gives a solid result.
close but not quite. you still have to use bondo hardener.
Posted By: bigpete123
Date Posted: November 27, 2006 at 6:05 PM
hot damn, that stuff is expensive!!
Posted By: voc formulator
Date Posted: December 04, 2006 at 3:04 PM
There is a misunderstanding between you and Thomas. If I understand your post you want to use 4058 IN PLACE OF body filler on plastic and fiberglass right?
If so that will absolutely work and 4058 feathers nice with 180 grit paper.
Thomas is correct that you never want to use body filler over Duramix adhesives or their 4058 skim coat because it will not adhere. If you were to use body filler or metal glaze over pinholes in 4058 or an adhesive like 4040 once the product is painted and sees UV light outdoors you will see tiny pinheads and this is the filler popping out of the 4058 or 4040.
This pinhead problem is why Duramix came out with 4058 and though it took several years to perfect the product you couldn't beat it over a Duramix adhesive repair on a TPO bumper.
Keep in mind on TPO or TEO or any other junky plastic you need to use an adhesion promoter whether you use an adhesive like 4040 or a skim coat like 4058. Keep in mind if you sand the duramix after the first application and want to apply more more duramix you must re-apply their adhesion promoter each time.
I sold countless millions of dollars for 10 years as a Duramix rep before 3M bought them out so its safe to say I've shot a few cartridges in my day.
Mix the 4058 on a 'clean sheet' with a body filler spreader by overlapping and don't try stirring it like cake batter because that will introduce air bubbles.
Posted By: bigpete123
Date Posted: December 04, 2006 at 4:50 PM
Wow, thank you for that very informative post. I wasn't sure if Thomas had mispoken or not. So I assumed he understood me. To be completely sure I understand you (I'm not technically advanced in plastics/etc)... All I want is a filler product that will adhere to fiberglass AND plastic. Since I'm attaching fiberglass to an existing plastic panel, I want the fiberglass to blend into the plastic seamlessly. My understanding was that Duramix 4058 won't work on fiberglass. So you're saying that my understanding is incorrect and that duramix 4058, along with some adhesion promoter, will work as a filler on fiberglass and plastic at the same time? Sorry if I'm beating this into the ground, but I want to be sure as this stuff is expensive!
Posted By: voc formulator
Date Posted: December 05, 2006 at 7:59 PM
There's absolutely no reason why 4058 won't work on fiberglass. In the autobody market the presence of fiberglass is rare because anything ~1990 and newer that resembles fiberglass is SMC which is fiberglass with a glorified high quality resin system that can really expand and contract over the course of the day when in the direct sunlight/UV light. On the back of an SMC panel you can see the chopped glass but you can't feel the chopped glass (perfectly smooth) unlike the back of a fiberglass panel.
With a true SMC application we would have never recommended 4058 we would have used 4056 SMC filler which expands and contracts with the SMC substrate that was being repaired. Later Duramix private labeled UPOL's Fibral fiber filled filler under part number 4055 and this could be used in place of 4056 or it would be used under 4056 (4056 would act as the skim/finishing coat.
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