fog lights turn off headlights?

How would one wire the fog lights to turn off the headlights, unless both high beams and low beams are on, in which case the fog lights should turn off? Here in Norway it is illegal to drive with the foglights and headlights on at the same time. The fines are quite heavy, so I'm trying to wire the lights so that it is impossible for me to drive with illegal lights. I have searched both this forum and the rest of the web, but haven't found what I want. My car is a 1992 VW Golf mk2.

Ah - the advantage of older vehicles that switched off their front parkers when the beams were on - that's what fog lights were controlled by (the front park lights).

And what the heck do the Norwegians do with newer vehicles that can have foglights on with headlights? We had the same laws here - and maybe still do - maybe new vehicles have been exempted as being "(mostly?) internationally acceptable". [I define many as being foglights - they throw low and wide - even if white. And they are often on with headlights (and at times somewhat annoyingly so)...]
Hmm - maybe we are in the same boat (not the TAMPA! But MS Tombarra is cool ) - not that I would ever want to drive with fogs and beams, but getting fines for the mistake is another issue....
Actually my Cibie Bi-Oscar low-beams are technically foglights... oooh though naughty oldskool rallyers!

I should tell you to "stick" - all my cars have the separate front-park circuit (though all the fronts have been transferred to the rears to be on with beams) so I don't have a problem...


But it's certainly do-able.
However the car's wiring may simplify things. Rather than have multiple - or maybe multi-pole - relays, it could just be one depending on what switching the Golf uses (though I think it'll be 1 plus the foglight relay).


I'll look for some 1992 VW Golf Mk2 wiring....
Remind me if I look too long...
Or better still, beat me with my stick!

Easy, trigger or feed (if a pos trigger) the fog relays from the LOW beam headlights! One is yellow primary colour, the other white primary, I can't for the life of me remember which is which but then I'd test anyway.
N.B. Ex factory ALL European cars are pre-wired to have the front AND rear fog lights ONLY come on with the low beams.
P.S. Have you started to learn Mandarin yet Peter?

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Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

My last reply will only allow the fogs to pwer up when the low beams are on.
Ex factory as far as I know you can't have high and low on at the same time so the question is moot.
Fog light feed is a yellow/white from the headlight switch pin 13 marked 83a this info from the Polo of the same vintage, my Autodata is woefully inadequate on this point.
At the switch find the high beam and front fog wires and do as follows.
Cut fog lamp output after the switch, then with a standard 5 pin Bosch relay, switch side to 87a
Spur from high beam (probably WHITE/ black, TEST) to 86, inline diode on this wire, 1N4004, band towards relay.
Ground (earth, 0V) to 85 (tap any plain brown factory wire.)
Fog lamp side of cut wire to 30.
87 not used.
This will immediately shut down your fog lamps when high beams are activated.
Having said that, I will again state that with OEM/ex factory wiring this is what should happen anyway.


-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

oldspark wrote:

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Ah - the advantage of older vehicles that switched off their front parkers when the beams were on - that's what fog lights were controlled by (the front park lights).

And what the heck do the Norwegians do with newer vehicles that can have foglights on with headlights? We had the same laws here - and maybe still do - maybe new vehicles have been exempted as being "(mostly?) internationally acceptable". [I define many as being foglights - they throw low and wide - even if white. And they are often on with headlights (and at times somewhat annoyingly so)...]
Hmm - maybe we are in the same boat (not the TAMPA! But MS Tombarra is cool ) - not that I would ever want to drive with fogs and beams, but getting fines for the mistake is another issue....
Actually my Cibie Bi-Oscar low-beams are technically foglights... oooh though naughty oldskool rallyers!

I should tell you to "stick" - all my cars have the separate front-park circuit (though all the fronts have been transferred to the rears to be on with beams) so I don't have a problem...


But it's certainly do-able.
However the car's wiring may simplify things. Rather than have multiple - or maybe multi-pole - relays, it could just be one depending on what switching the Golf uses (though I think it'll be 1 plus the foglight relay).


I'll look for some 1992 VW Golf Mk2 wiring....
Remind me if I look too long...
Or better still, beat me with my stick!

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I think that the rules regarding lights are different here than they are where you live. The norwegian rules state that the parking lights (5 watt) must be on at all times, and that it is illegal to use fog lights with low or high beams. Lots of people in newer cars drive with the fog lights and low beam on at the same time, and risk a 2000NOK (USD337) fine. There are no relays for any of the lights on my golf, and it does not have fog lights. I plan on adding both.

Are you absolutely sure? UK and Germany state front and rear fog lights (2 on the front) with low beams only.
It's the Japanese and North America which appear to have no rules, and what about Iceland with all those lights on the roof, or don't you watch Top Gear?
Anyway that's all moot because I showed you how in my last post using a relay and a diode.
Fine, run them without relays from terminal 13 on your lighting switch. It should only power up when fog is selected.
That will keep you legal.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

We HAD the same rules except that we do not need running lights (parkers). And we don't have "rear" foglights (strange isn't it?, but usually the parkers & hence tails are on).

But those rules may have changed since i was involved...

howie ll wrote:

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Are you absolutely sure? UK and Germany state front and rear fog lights (2 on the front) with low beams only.
It's the Japanese and North America which appear to have no rules, and what about Iceland with all those lights on the roof, or don't you watch Top Gear?
Anyway that's all moot because I showed you how in my last post using a relay and a diode.
Fine, run them without relays from terminal 13 on your lighting switch. It should only power up when fog is selected.
That will keep you legal.

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Yes, I'm sure about the rules here. They are a bit different than for the rest of western europe (DRL have also been mandatory since the mid-eighties). High and low beams can be on at the same time if I pull and hold on the light-stalk to the left of the steering wheel.

I don't understand what you mean about running without relays from terminal 13. I am in the process of installing relays for my headlights because I am not satisfied with the output from them.

This: https://www.a2resource.com/electrical/CE2.html was the only wiring information I could find online.

Better than my finds but still ambiguous without switching circuit else better descriptions.   

If B/03 is "beam power", then that could be used (ie, to disable the fogs).



An independent arrangement is to have the bulbs (from one side, both hi & low) each go through a diode (IN4004, IN4007 etc) to 86 of an SPDT relay with 85 to GND. The "signal" +12V for the fog goes thru 30 & 87A (Normally Closed) to or from the foglight switch to the foglight SPST relay (86 with 85 GND) and 30 from fused foglight power (eg, from the battery) and 87 to the foglights.

Hence normally the foglight switch power goes through the un-energised SPDT relay (30 - 87a).
High or low beams on (+12V) goes thru the respective diode to SPDT relay 86, hence energising it and breaking the 30-87A connection, hence no +12V to energise the foglight relay (86).   

Apart from the foglight switch, all the above can be done in the engine bay.
It is 2 relays, but one relay is for the foglights (which I recommend anyhow), and the SPDT relay is the signal's "logic switching".
The SPDT could be replaced with electronics, but a relay is IMO elegant enough (assuming you don't mind the SPDT relay being on whenever the headlights are on).

I'd use 2 SPDT relays plus a 3rd as a spare. (IE - an SPST is an SPDT with one terminal unused.)

All moot Peter, I'm guessing the GTI was pre-wired anyway*, has our friend actually looked behind where the fog lights would go, or looked at the lighting switch for a WHITE/ yellow wire?
*All UK spec. cars had them as standard.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

Yes - it could be....

I know some people think fogs should or can be on with (low) beams, but I don't know how different regions or vehicles wire them.

And one day I'll get back to my esteemed comrade on the "fogs with lows" issue... One day.

Or one relay, 86 to 12v+ and 85 to low beam, stops them coming on with the head light.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.

I thought of that, but hi-beam...?

Ah - but Howie probably knows that their low is perhaps on with hi???

I have checked behind the headlight switch and the foglight switch. There is a thin WHITE/ yellow wire from the foglight switch, but none from the headlight switch.

That's the one.

-------------
Amateurs assume, don't test and have problems; pros test first. I am not a free install service.
Read the installation manual, do a search here or online for your vehicle wiring before posting.