dead battery overnight audio system?

I've researched this forum and others and have not found anyone with the exact same scenario, maybe you all can help in my troubleshooting.

Here's my Setup:
Mazda 3 2006 with an after market sound system. Head Unit, 4xSpeakers, 2 Amps (2500w RMS), 12" sub, and 5 Farad Tsunami Capacitor. Stock battery, alternator, etc...

Here's my problem:
Battery is dead after leaving the car parked for 12-14 hours.
I have to jump it off and then it runs fine until the next park. Sometimes it has a hard time turning over even after 6-8 hours.

Here's what I've done:
Battery Tests out "Good Low Charge"
Alternator Tests out "Good"
Starter Tests out "Good"
Amperage Draw measured across the battery is .02amps with the car off.

I have double checked and made sure that the amps turn on and off with the head unit.

The only thing I can think of to note is that the capacitor has an LED readout that turns off about 3-5 minutes after the car is off.
However, their are LEDs running up and down the sides of the CAP that never turn off. I don't think these are drawing a amps off the battery though? But it is one of the only things I can put my finger on.   Also, there is not a remote wire for the CAP to turn it on and off with the system.

The terminals are tight on the battery and I have double checked my ground on the Amps in the trunk and they seem to be solid.

Also I am pretty sure that the wiring for the Amps and Capacitor are done correctly. Pos on Battery to Pos (in) on Capacitor to Amps (Split off Cap), Neg on Capacitor to ground, Neg on Amps to ground. Remote on/off from head unit to Amps. And like I said the draw on the battery when the car is off was measured to be .02amps.

Any help/ideas/comments would be greatly appreciated. I cannot continue to jump my car off at 7:00 in the morning, to go to work. What's draining my battery? I know some of you experts have some troubleshooting tips for me that I haven't done yet.

Thanks in advance!

is the amp staying on after the ignition is off??

No, I've checked that and both amps turn on and off with the Stereo and/or if i cut off the ignition. There are power LEDs on both which shut off and you can hear a subtle but audible click.

Thanks for the thought...other ideas?

Try pulling the fuse to your main audio system supply to verify it is something in the audio system causing the problem.

-------------
Support the12volt.com

You've done some troubleshooting and testing but I didn't see anywhere where you said you put a new battery in.  DYohn's troubleshooting suggestion #1 will verify for you whether the audio system is causing a drainage problem or not.  My immediate thought is that the battery is shot and needs to be replaced.  Is that possible with a car as recent as 2006?  Oh yes, as every extra demand that is put on it shortens its life.  Biggest damaging factor is running it down to the point it has to be recharged.

With the new battery, you should also look into upgrading the Big 3 to help out that power supply.

Note:  Caps don't use remote turn-on wires.  They recharge immediately upon discharge.  This puts an additional strain on the battery which has to feed amperage to the cap and then get recharged itself.  LEDs pull extremely little amperage and shouldn't be a concern even if they have been staying lit.

-------------
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

Thanks DYohn, I will pull the fuse tomorrow and see if the battery is still draining.

stevdart, after I pull the fuse, if the problem persists, I will replace the battery, I just didn't want the expense right now. Probably get a yellow top. I also have the wire and terminal connectors to do the Big 3 and will be doing that as soon as there's a little warmer weather.

Another thought though...if I'm not measuring any real amperage being pulled from the battery when the cars off and lets say I don't find a problem with the wiring or the system. Could my alternator just be too weak to re-charge the battery after using my system. I never run it with the car off and I've never let the battery go dead by leaving on a light etc...

My Alternator is putting out 90amps and is stock. Would you think thats an adequate charging system for the car + system. Like I said it's about 2500w RMS (Maybe that's not enough info to know?) but what's an educated guess?

Thanks

My main thing is, I don't want to buy a yellow top and it start dying on me when the issue really lies somewhere else.

I think we (or at least I) try to get a feel for the way someone uses his sound system by the little bit of information we read in the posts.  Two amplifiers rated at 2500 watts each is surreal.  If they, in fact, were putting out that much power you are indeed a candidate for a very high output alternator as the available capacity left over in a stock alt wouldn't nearly cover the added load of the system.  But I don't think this is the case and the system is not used that way.  What I surmise, though, is that you play it a lot and often when the car is either idling or off.  That's kinda normal.

The alternator, be it stock or aftermarket, powers at its fullest when the engine is rev'd, like as if you were always driving highway.  And daytime is better because the headlamps aren't pulling their respective load on it.  But, usually, systems are best enjoyed while parking, idling, night time, stuff like that.  The alt can't produce enough in those situations.  Instead, the battery supplies the needed amps and is constantly, but slowly, being recharged when it has a chance to.  While the alternator is likely not "too weak" to resupply the battery, it just doesn't have enough time to do it while the extra loads are turned off.

Something about batteries:  a warm battery performs better than a cold battery.  Often its the case where you can restart a car with a weak battery soon after you turn it off (while it is warm) but not after waiting for a complete cooldown.  I think this might be what you are experiencing.  Just the couple of jumpstarts you mentioned will result in a battery whose life is shortlived.

The capacitor in your system is adding to the problem at this time.  I suggest you remove it and listen for a decrease in bass response.  I am willing to bet you don't hear a change.  If it is not improving your system it is doing nothing but presenting another load on the battery.  If it is not improving it is degrading.

Something I've done in the past:  I have traded batteries from another family vehicle, without the knowledge of any other parties (!), for the sole purpose of troubleshooting.  That's the key word:  troubleshooting.  Rules and mores can be bent and nearly broken for this divine purpose. 

-------------
Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

Hey stevdart, actually the two amps combined are about 2500W RMS (850W for the doors, and 2000W for the sub). But I still get your point.

I will have to remove the CAP as I agree it is adding to the problem as it is trying to recharge when I crank the car.

^^(for the divine purpose) nicely put   

Thanks again for everyone's input.

So would the general recommendation be to replace the battery and run the system without the Cap?

(For the record the battery was dead this morning again, but I had not unhooked the system from it)

Just to add to the battery idea.  I had the same issue with my car.  Battery was dying all the time.  Car only had 31k miles on it and was around a year and a half old.  Replaced it and didn't have a problem after that.  Kinda sucked the dealer didn't warranty it though.  Said since I had over 30k miles on the car it was "out of warranty".  WTH?!?!  Then wanted to charge me over $100 for a new one.  I laughed and told them to push it out of their shop if they had to.  They were definetly on something that day.

I do roadside assistance for all autobrands in the US except ford...well until a month from now..then we get that contract too. And I see how crappy the battery's are in these "new" cars, they are the worst part of the cars these days, they are probably made by little kids over in china and bought for $1 each for the performace they provide. Pick up a new deep cycle battery and try that out, the red top optima is actually preferred over the yellow top for our applications.

-------------
2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.

Thanks guys, I got an Optima Yellow Top today (Stock Battery wouldn't even jump). I hated to fork out the cash, but I installed it this evening and the car cranked. I haven't hooked up the system to it yet though, I kinda want to see if there's problems first.

Thoughts... Could the built in voltage regulator in the alternator be fried? Overcharging the battery? Or more likely just too many deep discharges? The battery wouldn't hold a charge at all when I had it tested today, went up to around 12v and dropped to 9v in a matter of 5seconds.

I'm just really worried this is going to happen again and kill the new battery I just bought. I can't afford for this to keep up.

Could a bad ground at the head unit cause the problem? I'm still looking for ideas and troubleshooting tips as I don't think the battery was the main source of the problem, though part of it.

Thanks again to all of you for your comments/ideas, much appreciated!

Update ->> OK...battery is still draining. I've identified the problem fuse to be the "Room Fuse" which is all of the interior stuff, basically. I pulled my entire dash/center console out and checked all of the bulbs/connections etc. Didn't find anything. Alternator tests good, Battery is good (Brand New).

What could still be draining my battery? (My car was rear ended, small dent, a couple months ago but repaired) Could that have set off some sort of airbag/impact sensor that is draining my battery? I'm really reaching here.

Any more help would be greatly appreciated.

I've checked all headlights/taillights, trunk, dome, cigg lighter, etc...?

I'm confused here - how exactly do you know that this new Yellow is still draining?  My Yellow Top is 3 years old and it can run my headlights all night and still start no problem in the morning.

-------------
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Hey Silver...thanks for the post...

After leaving the car for 12-20 hours I noticed it was sluggish to turn over...so I hooked up a multimeter in series with the battery. Positive cable to multimeter/ multimeter to positive post and measured the current draw that the system was pulling when the car was turned off. (Parasitic Drain) It measured to be 150mA-160mA with an initial spike of 250mA (enough that it was making a huge spark when I touched the leads to the battery).

This is far above the max recommended parasitic drain on the battery which i've read to be 50mA and specifically 35mA on my car. (A Mazda 3 2006).

The image bellow shows what I have finally identified as the source of the problem. The Large Green Harness shown in the upper right corner of the fuse box is where the problem originates.



When I unplug the green harness the amperage draw stops.

I pulled all of the fuses in the engine and in this under the dash fuse box. None of them stopped the amperage drain. Do all of the wires in the Large Green Harness go through a fuse in this box? IF so, then there has to be a problem with either the green harness or the fuse box itself. (Since I've pulled all of the fuses and none of them solved the problem).

Does anyone have ideas on how I could test each wire. And more importantly, does anyone have information on which wire is which? It's labeled "Front-1"

Thanks!

jice] wrote:

---

Hey Silver...thanks for the post...

---

*Not Silver...sedate (sorry) My brain's fried from messing with this for the last week.

J