1 bit dacs vs burr brown dacs

I Am Trying to set up a grat car system. I have some confusion on how to get the best sound. I wanted a 2 din DVD player but I dont believe I will get the best sound. So I decided I wanted pure sound over the DVD. So I have been looking at Denon, McIntosh, and Alpines. I have seen all kinds of DAC setups, so I want to know whats best. Alpine has 4 chips at 18bit Burr brown, Denon has a 2 chip at 20bit Burr brown, and Mcintosh has a 2x24 Burr Brown.    I understand that the higher bit is better, so the 24 bit is better, but what is the gain in 4 DACs over 2 DACs? if any? Thanks for any help in this!

I would imagine any of those head unit brands would provide sound so clean that the differences would be far, far beyond anything a human is going to hear.

I'd get the McIntosh though - just for *bling* factor.

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

Truthfully I don't think you will really be able to hear the difference in a 1 bit DAC and a 24 bit DAC, the real difference will come from the quality of design of the rest of the circuitry. You could put a 1 billion bit DAC in a new Sony head unit and it will still sound like a mentally challenged 5 year old slave designed it. Head units are like speakers, you need to go take a listen to see which one processes the sound the way you like it. I have a Eclipse CD5100 and a CD7000, I did a swap in my truck for back to back listening, and although they are the same brand, the CD5100 sounded like crap compared to my CD7000, I did everything I could to get them to sound the same, but it just wasn't going to happen, the CD7000 just has way far superior of a design. With head units, you really do get what you pay for.

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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.

Don't forget the Kenwood quad DAc with dual offset.

I have personally never been a fan of 1bit DACs. They ARE audibly different than the 24-bit models, and my opine would be to stick with the higher order bit units.

The benefit to 1-bit? CHEAP!!! And if the DAC is cheap, why would the manufacturer spend lots more money on the rest of the circuitry, when they are skimping out on the FIRST ANALOG STAGE in the whole thing? Answer... They WON'T.

To me, 1-bit means "cheap", or "mass-market"... Also, EVERY 1-bit DAC is as GOOD AS IT WILL EVER BE!!! DSD is, mathematically, right now, the best it can EVER GET, whereas multi-bit PCM is literally infinitely perfectable, meaning it will (well, CAN) ALWAYS get better!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Exactly, good point! If the manufacture is going to be putting a higher bit rate DAC they generally will be making better circuitry to compliment it. IMO the head unit should be the most important device in your system, no matter how good of speakers you have, the signal will only be as good as what the head unit can produce.

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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.

OK, so, the question is what is better, four 18 bit DACs or two 24 bit DACs? I think I have gathered that there will be little difference in sound reproduction. My set up is front and rear MB Quart separates with 6.5 mid woofers, Q series, I have a soundstream rub-angina amp running my JL Audio 10" woofer and a sony explode 4ch amp for the MB quarts, havent decided on the head unit yet. Looking at the older denons or Mcintosh, or I have found a stand alone Nakamichi DAC, but the problem there is there is only a left and right output, not sure that I want to split the signal because of line loss, does anyone have any suggestions? Also, I would like to thank everyone for their input. It has been very helpful.    Randall

Hate to break it to you, but no matter how nice of a headunit you buy, that sony amp is going to be the weakest link in your system. Lets just say it's going to color your music in ways you couldn't imagine.

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dwarren wrote:

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Hate to break it to you, but no matter how nice of a headunit you buy, that sony amp is going to be the weakest link in your system. Lets just say it's going to color your music in ways you couldn't imagine.

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I agree. Look at spending as much on a nice 4channel that you will in your HU -to get the best sound. The installation of your front speakers is also very important.

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2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001

Dump the Sony and don't buy a cap!

The sony specs say that it has .005% THD. Thought that would be clean. I know it has enough power to run the MB Quarts, so why is that not a good amp? More clarification please. I know I could get a better amp but the price on a high end 4 ch amp is up there. I dont have enough mounting room to use two separate 2ch amps with better stats. I have a nice MA Audio 4 ch competition amp but its too big to mount under the seat. Which is where I need to mount it.

Which Sony amp is it, EXACT model number, please.

But to answer your question, you need to know the TEST PARAMETERS, which are supposed to be specified.

.005% sounds like a THD at 1W output, NOT at rated output. (Especially for an X-plod amp - NOT great gear, by any means) Tell us your exact model, and I'll see if I can't describe for you better the test parameters. Sony, MA, Audiobahn... all those flea-market makers will always tax the amplifier to it's LOWEST capabilites, to make the numbers SOUND better than they really are.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Put that spec sheet up to your ear and tell me how it sounds. There is far more to an amp and a cd player than a "good" spec.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

The Sony is an XM-504Z, tha MA audio is a M486i. I have a feeling the MA Audio is much better but I have mounting limitations. But I might be able to take it back to the drawing board.

From what you have told us, this project MA Xplode.

1 Bit or 1 Mega Bit DACS. It won't matter using the amps you are describing. THD numbers mean nothing. The fact Sony even stated .005 THD should be a clue how worthless this number is.

If you take a look at the greatest home tube amplifiers, the numbers suck. Single digit dampening, slow slew rates, high distortion. Listen to them and you will know why they are prized.

Went to MA Audio's website. Picked an amp at random. I found BS wattage ratings and the size. Nothing else. Audiobahn crap in a less sexy package. Let's see how much longer MA survives.

How about an old soundstream rubicon? I really dont need that much power. Even though the MB Quarts are rated at high wattage, right now I am running them on a stock head unit,(probably 15-18 watts) and they sound awesome! Just a little more power to keep them from bottoming out, and I should be fine. Trying not to spend a fortune on the amp, I imagine most of my money will go into the HU. I am seriously considering the Denon A-1 dual 24 bit DACs. Doesnt look as sleek as the newer HU but the sound quality is said to be unmatched.

More power isn't going to keep them from bottoming out. You are going to need a High Pass filter or seal up the doors better.

I started off with the Quart Q's, and moved on ...
70hz @ 24db/oct was the lowest xover point without over extending the cone. Zapco C2k-4.0 biamped.

The Soundstream is heading in the right direction, much better than the Sony or the MA.

I guess I shouldnt say bottoming out, Just lack of power. I have made high density foam enclosures(baskets) so they should be pretty well sealed up. Im not getting any slap or unusual excursion so I believe that setup should work well. But its hard to say until I get the amp an HU in place. Just about to buy a Soundstream rubicon 4CH amp. Then I just need a HU, still thinking about the Denon DCT-A1.

I know this isn't exactly on topic - but WHERE are you going to get a Soundstream Rubicon amplifier in 2008?

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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview

You can find them occasionally on Craigs list, I have an electronics shop near my house that specializes in older car audio stuff and many times they will have consignment, you can still find them, it just takes patience, I got the one to run my sub (rubicon Angina) off the net.

Every review I have looked at on the denon states how it skips badly, and can only play store bought cd's, are you sure you want that pain?

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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.

Good point, no I dont want any more headaches. I think wiring alone will be enough of a headache. I just bought that soundstream Rubicon 4ch amp on Ebay. Wonderful!! That part was easy. OK, so, now back to the HU. Any suggestions?

How much are you willing to spend?

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2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.

For the HU I would Like to get out for under $1000.00. I have seen some that I like in the $800.00 Range. Of Course, If I could find a good one for less that would be great. I might go a little higher but I would have to know its worth the money.

[QUOTE=rspoon16] I guess I shouldnt say bottoming out, Just lack of power. I have made high density foam enclosures(baskets) so they should be pretty well sealed up".

This could be part of your bottoming problem. The Quarts are designed for inf. baffle mounting. Unless you have built the proper foam enclosures you might not be loading the drivers correctly.

Thats a good point you bring up. I am not sure that the enclosures are properly built to specs. Not even sure what specs are correct. I reallly was just trying to keep some of the rattle down of door panels etc.