do y adapters make you lose any quality
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=102419
Printed Date: May 11, 2024 at 11:21 AM
Topic: do y adapters make you lose any quality
Posted By: mazzasec
Subject: do y adapters make you lose any quality
Date Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:40 PM
Do Y adapters make you loose any type of quality? It just confuses me. Cause your changing 1 output to 2 outputs. Can someone explain to me how this doesnt derease quality or the level that is being put out ? Cause I got 2 channel RCA's going into my amp. But I am gonna get another one of the same amp and run each sub to its own amp So I would be converting the 2channel RCA's basically to a 4 channel like this. Can someone explain if any quality or output is loss? And if so why it just gets to my head that something has to happened converting 2 to 4. Would this be an appropriate way to wire the RCA's?  
Replies:
Posted By: techman93
Date Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Due to the fact it is a low level signal that gets amplified and the fact you are paralleling the outputs. It doesn't change the level by an amount that would be audible. The amplifiers are equipped with level adjustments so you can balance out sensitivity of inputs being used.
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The wire I'm test'n isn't doin' what it's supposed to be doin'... I am so glad I printed that tech sheet, with the wrong info.
Do it right the first time... or I might have to fix it for ya
Posted By: mazzasec
Date Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:49 PM
So that would be appropriate way to wire my amps RCA and i will still get the suffcient quality and output?
Posted By: techman93
Date Posted: February 21, 2008 at 10:56 PM
The way you have it will take right to one amp and left to other. You could get the y able the changes to two female and add a small rca with a right and left going to both amps so when it is running mono you will get them to blend right and left into each amp.
The way you have it will sound fine as well.
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The wire I'm test'n isn't doin' what it's supposed to be doin'... I am so glad I printed that tech sheet, with the wrong info.
Do it right the first time... or I might have to fix it for ya
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: February 21, 2008 at 11:02 PM
Yes that is the way you need to do it.
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 12:40 AM
mazzasec wrote:
| Do Y adapters make you loose any type of quality? It just confuses me. Cause your changing 1 output to 2 outputs. Can someone explain to me how this doesnt derease quality or the level that is being put out ? |
No - especially not with those pricey JL interconnects you are using. Word to the wise - the wire you use doesn't really have any bearing on the signal quality - expensive wire enriches nothing but the seller. mazzasec wrote:
And if so why it just gets to my head that something has to happened converting 2 to 4.
This does make some basic intuitive sense - and I actually this is a real interesting statement just from a psychological standpoint - but anyway - no - low level signals don't work like that - I can't really explain it technically - maybe heamph or DYohn can - but it isn't like water in a pipe- it doesn't have mass that is being split up so it doesn't reduce the signal or degrade it or anything. You could daisy chain 10 amps like that and they would all recieve a useable signal. mazzasec wrote:
But I am gonna get another one of the same amp and run each sub to its own amp So I would be converting the 2channel RCA's basically to a 4 channel like this
This wouldn't work for a 4-channel/sub-amp setup, but for subwoofers this is okay - you'd lose stereo seperation if you were doing it with 4-channel. ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: mazzasec
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 8:43 AM
sedate wrote:
mazzasec wrote:
Do Y adapters make you loose any type of quality? It just confuses me. Cause your changing 1 output to 2 outputs. Can someone explain to me how this doesnt derease quality or the level that is being put out ?
No - especially not with those pricey JL interconnects you are using. Word to the wise - the wire you use doesn't really have any bearing on the signal quality - expensive wire enriches nothing but the seller.
WEll I aquired those wires when Hi Fi Buys was going out of business so before you think I am just some stuck up person that buys overpriced JL im not those wires were probably 75% off the price
Posted By: Alpine Guy
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 10:25 AM
Do it like that. ------------- 2003 Chevy Avalanche,Eclipse CD7000,Morel Elate 5,Adire Extremis,Alpine PDX-4.150, 15" TC-3000, 2 Alpine PDX-1.1000, 470Amp HO Alt.
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 1:17 PM
mazzasec wrote:
so before you think I am just some stuck up person that buys overpriced JL im not those wires were probably 75% off the price
Naww man - its not like that - I went through a stuck-up phase and had all JL interconnects. In a 93 Corrolla with 140K miles. I dunno what I was thinking. They cost me more than my 6-channel.  ... and more than the car itself! Real nice wires to be shure - and didn't mean to offend - I just don't wanna see anyone waste thier money. Trying to be - uhh - 'helpful.'  ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: n2audio
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 1:28 PM
mazzasec wrote:
Do Y adapters make you loose any type of quality? Can someone explain to me how this doesnt derease quality or the level that is being put out ?
Think of your head unit's pre-amps as a high quality amp and the amp they're connected to as a speaker. You know how a good amp can double its output power when the impedance is halved? Your HU can do the same thing, but since the pre-amps have such a low output impedance compared to the rca inptus of the amp they can be split several times (each split cuts the amps input impedance in half) w/no significant loss of voltage.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 2:04 PM
It all has to do with output CURRENT, and input IMPEDANCE.
Because the input impedance of most all amplifiers is relatively high, paralleling them really doesn't affect the overall load that the output op-amps are seeing, even though, TECHNICALLY, the impedance is still cut in half. Operational amplifiers are rated and designed to drive current, I have actually seen "safe" output currents in the 1A range, even from those little-bitty 8-pin DIPs.
Op-amps (just like high-level amplifiers) are VOLTAGE devices, meaning they will do whatever they can to maintain a given output voltage, up to the point of their destruction. They do this by increasing the output CURRENT. Sound familiar? So, really, their "output power" (even though "rated" in milliwatts) will double, just as does their high current counterparts, when putting a second woofer into the system.
While yes, the distortion WILL increase, it will rarely begin increasing to noticeable or significantly more measurable levels, until the op-amps are driven very close to saturation, basically when the load being driven (all of the paralleled amplifier INPUTS) comes MUCH closer to the output impedance of the driving op-amp. We're actually talking about 10 or so inputs...
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: noobgalore
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 6:26 PM
you will have to turn the gains up more since the signal will be half of what it usually is but thats what the gain is for to match the signal it is recieving.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 6:30 PM
noobgalore wrote:
you will have to turn the gains up more since the signal will be half of what it usually is but thats what the gain is for to match the signal it is recieving.
No, it won't. It will be FAR LESS than 1dB of loss, even if you dont touch the gains at all. ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 7:32 PM
Love your tech explanations, haemph. It takes me awhile but I end up getting things better.  ------------- Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Posted By: noobgalore
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 9:28 PM
haemphyst wrote:
noobgalore wrote:
you will have to turn the gains up more since the signal will be half of what it usually is but thats what the gain is for to match the signal it is recieving.
No, it won't. It will be FAR LESS than 1dB of loss, even if you dont touch the gains at all.
Im just going by my own experence. I have a alpine 9852 which has a pair of 2 volt preamp outputs and when I split it to run my 3 amps I noticed a difference. If you say you dont thats fine I'm not trying to argue I'm just offering input.
Posted By: n2audio
Date Posted: February 22, 2008 at 9:39 PM
noobgalore wrote:
haemphyst wrote:
noobgalore wrote:
you will have to turn the gains up more since the signal will be half of what it usually is but thats what the gain is for to match the signal it is recieving.
No, it won't. It will be FAR LESS than 1dB of loss, even if you dont touch the gains at all.
Im just going by my own experence. I have a alpine 9852 which has a pair of 2 volt preamp outputs and when I split it to run my 3 amps I noticed a difference. If you say you dont thats fine I'm not trying to argue I'm just offering input.
your ears were playing tricks on you, because it didn't happen, or the alpine preamps are junk. Those are the only 2 possibilities.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: February 23, 2008 at 12:25 AM
Operational amplifiers are DESIGNED to maintain a given output voltage, regardless of the load to which they are attached. This means that:
1: If you have amplifiers rated as a 10K ohm input (fairly typical, and generally higher than that) and you have an output op-amp that is rated 500 ohms output(again, quite typical) you would be able to load that output op-amp with 20 amplifiers (with typical 10K ohm input impedances), before there will be ANY discernable loss of voltage.
2: Either a: your amplifers were NOT typical in their input impedance. They were obviously FAR lower impedance, or b: there was an issue with one of the amplifiers you installed.
Those are the ONLY two options.
stevdart wrote:
Love your tech explanations, haemph. It takes me awhile but I end up getting things better.
Thanks... It's what I do!  ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
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