ed 13ov.2

Well, I am working on redoing the system in my car and I am starting with subs. I am custom building the boxes. I have been testing a lot of subs in WINISD and I think I have decided on the Elemental Designs 13OV.2. With the box I have designed it seems to have the best mix of SPL and group delay, especially for the price. I plan on running 2 in seperate boxes. My specs, if you would like to check it out, are: 1.4 ft^3 box tuned to 28 Hz, with a port 6"x2" and 26.48 inches long (port will be external), being driven by 600W. If anyone has any input or suggestions on a different sub I am open. I have tried subs from JL, JBL, Orion, etc. and nothing has really compared for the price. I am open to 10", 12", or 15" but I would like to keep box size to 1.75 ft^3 or less. Also I am looking for a minimum freq. of 40 HZ, 30-35 preferred, up to 80 Hz. for the range. Thank you for any help.

I have a 19Ov.2 in 6 cubes at 40Hz...love it.

1.4 at 28hz is fine...but tuning to 28Hz isn't really necessary. lowest I'd tune is 30Hz and I rarely do that.   The 13Ov.2 work well in bigger than "spec" boxes also.

Are you thinking of going with two 13Ov.2s with 600 total???

By the way the other 2 sub I found that I was greatly considering but just don't seem as good are the Image Dynamics ID12 and I found a pair of HCCA 10s (1999 version) for a good price. I like the HCCAs but it seems Orion lied about the sensitivity according to WINISD or I would get those. They are 12Db higher according to the manual than WINISD says they are. If they really were they would get as loud as I desire and I would get them.

600 Watts to each one.

You're right, it's even better tuned to 30Hz in a 1.6 ft^3 box.

Pretty much every driver I have entered into WinISD does not have the same sensitivity/SPL rating as the "manufactures" specs.

As with what I've done but 12Db seemed excessive. Which is sad considering it's Orion I wouldn't expect them to over rate by that much.

Well it seems with your advice the 13Ov.2 is exactly what I want and not just the best overall compromise. Yes it will be 600 Watts each powered by 2 Pioneer PRS-D200Ts. I like the Premier series HUs and Amps. I have one of their HUs in my car right now and it's way better than the JVC I have in my last car.

600 watts is perfect per 13Ov.2

Don't look into the spl rating much.

https://stereointegrity.com/docs/Efficiency.pdf

Well, I guess that will be the route I go. My next problem is should I spray the inside with sound deadener or fill it with polyfill or anything like that?

Just so I can understand my comparisons more, how important is the difference in group delay, like is 3ms a big deal?

I forgot to ask too, should I be worrying so much about the real low frequencies, like below 40Hz. If I should be would a sub with higher spl low or higher be/sound better. I did look at one sub where the spl crossed right around 40Hz and wasn't quite as loud as the ED.

the eD in 1.6 cubes at 30Hz should sound very nice and dig pretty deep.

Yes, it does seem to be ideal. I think I will order 2 of those and get going on the boxes. I have a can of 3M spray on sound deadener around here somewhere, should I spray the inside of the panels with that?

it is not necessary at all to use sound dampening material inside a 3/4" MDF enclosure.

Just use some caulk and seal up the seams from leaks. If you want you can lay down a couple coats of fiberglass resin on the interior for extra strength and seal up any leaks...but it is not necessary.

Ok, thank you very much. You have been extremely helpful. I may be going with a 13Kv.2 due to it's lower cost, and it has better group delay and is slightly louder. Once again your help is greatly appreciated.

600 watts for a 13Kv.2 is pushing it. Overall the 13Ov.2 will perform better and probably suffer from less power compression

As long as I kept the gain down it'd be alright wouldn't it. Or is that not really proper. I entered it in WINISD with 500W when I came up with my results by the way.

Or I could power them using 1 PRS-D1200SPL which would provide 500W each.

well yes you can set your gains down. But with the power and if you can afford the 13Ov.2 they really are a step up in out and sound quality.

The 13Kv's are great subs for the price though also...either way you'll be happy.

my experience with elemental designs is outstanding. I just put 2 130v.2 subs in a xb powered by a 9.1, 1 ohm, nearing 3/4 gain, roughly 500 rms per sub and no problems, have done numerous other installs using elemental products, and have recently ordered all ED products for my company demo vehicle. Almost every install job that I sell is started off by introducing them to the ED lineup. They have a 5 year warranty for a reason, can withstand a vast amount of abuse, and are well worth the money. Good choice in product, and yeah the PRS-D1200 would work fine on those subs

I'll go with the 13O's, I don't mind saving my pennies. Would the PRS-D1200SPL or 2 PRS-D2000T's be better to power these? I was thinking the D2000's but the D1200SPL is a sub amp.

Either amps will do perfectly fine. 1200 watts is plenty for a pair of 13Ov.2 subwoofers.

If you can afford the 2000 watt amp than go for it...the head room will be nice and chances of clipping will be near none

i used the 1200 in my last install on a scion dealership demo vehicle that required terms of a full pioneer audio upgrade , and wasn't thrilled with the output for the cost. If your looking for an amp to match with those subs, I would highly recommend the Elemental Designs 9.1. huge power output based on output per dollar, industry leading warranty, and I have yet to get one to blow up, to hot to touch, etc. The best part, only $350 shipped to you. good luck, and send or post pics of the install after complete

I have a Nine.1 and I love it...pushed my 19Ov.2 easily

oh, almost forgot to mention the 9.1 has a fuse rating of 1440 watts rms peak @ 1 ohm @ 12 volts, and 1644 rms peaked @ 13.7 volts. Still plenty of headroom for those 2 subs, and the match is perfect. at least check it out, it will be worth it

Thank you very much guys, I will be going with an ED amp, but I found another sub. I found one that just really appeals to me. I'm getting a Credence sqare 15", found here https://www.credencespeakers.com/SQ15D2_4.htm in a 1.5 ft^3 sealed box. The range and SPL are amazing for a sealed box, it's the perfect combo IMO! I will get one to start and eventually buy a second. I'm thinking a NINe.1 to power them but I need to look at the ED amps more. This should be a good start to my upgrade, and a big step up from the Orion Cobalt bandpass that I have now (which sounds surprisingly good btw... even though people seemed convinced bandpass is a one note wonder). Again thanks for all of your help!

Those subs look pretty low quality...Q is pretty high. I wouldn't get that sub. Spec way towards sealed enclosures.

If that makes you happy though...IMO it is a BIG step down in sound quality and output.

the spl and range are impressive for a 1.5 sealed enclosure, but for the money, and rated rms power that the sub can handle, there are a ton of other subs out there that will give close to the same numbers for the same or even less money. The increased spl , i would assume would be caused by the additional cone surface area provided by the square design. I would highly recommend looking into some other brands subs, before committing to that sub. try the ED line, HAXO, bravox, etc. just a thought. not trying to talk you out of a sub that your really into, just trying to help point you in the right direction

Hey, it's cool. That's why I'm on here, so I can pick the brains of those wiser than me. Speaking of HAXO though, I was looking at their LXO 12, I was quite impressed by it. In WINISD I put one in a 1.4ft^3 box tuned to 35Hz and it really looked like it would shine. How do you guys think a couple of those would sound? Obviously loud, but SQ wise... I'd imagine pretty good, but I don't know. What would you guys recommend powering 1 or 2 of those with. BTW if I do those, due to the cost, I would get one to start and another a little ways down the road so if I could power them off one amp I'd want it to be good for one of them to start.

The LXU 12 also looks great, it seems to fit my needs a little better than the LXO I think. It's not as power hungry, but still gets real loud and probably sounds amazing. I'm thinking a couple in 1.4ft^3 boxes tuned to 34Hz. Just don't know what to power them with.

Anyone know if the NINe.2 can do 800Watts at 2 Ohms? Or is it not 2Ohm stable in 1 channel.

The LXO's are more SPL oriented drivers...the LXU's are SQ drivers.

The Nine.2 can probably not put out 800 watts...doubling the rating as the impedance is halved is just theoretical...I doubt it. It won't be warrantied if you fry it at 1 ohm.

If your looking at doing the LXU 12, or should I say a pair of them, your only wiring option would be single 4 ohm, so your looking at 800 rms maxed on a 2 ohm load. If your going that route, I would once again direct my attention to the 130v.2. Tad cheaper, and it can give you the best of both worlds, very nice for the sq, and still hits low. As for power for either of those choices, I would be looking at the 9.1 again, gives tons of headroom for either combination due to the 130v.2's can handle most of what that amp has to offer in a 1 ohm load, still gain to play with, and would still be a good match, headroom also for a 2 ohm load on the LXU 12's. With the 9.1, I can almost guarantee that you will be more than impressed, along with either of those sub choices.
The only reason I am trying to veer you from the 9.2 is because it doesn't have a sole purpose of lower freq. It also does quite well when applied to components, etc. Not to say you wouldn't get decent power, but the amp would see more of a strain due to power requirements of the subs. Hope this helps

I got ya, I actually was thinking of using 2 9.2s on 2 ohms not at 1 ohm. The 9.1 wouldn't give the lxu's their full power though right? Although I was also thinking the 13O might be a better choice, the extra output isn't much for the extra money. only other subs I was looking at was Fi but I don't think they can compare with cost to performance. So narrowed back to the 13O, ED can't be beat, big surprise huh? Lol!

you don't need to power a subwoofer to the maximum rated RMS power handling.

the Ov series subs are made to work in small sealed and ported boxes. The LXU's are for larger enclosures

Actually I configured an LXU in a 1.4 ft^3 tuned to 34Hz enclosure and it looks like it would be really good. Better than the 13O probably. I also forgot that ED carries HAXO now and the LXU is only $15 more than the 13O. But if you guys think I would be better off with the 13O I've got nothing against it, I've just been trying to explore my options. I've just been finding out about most of these companys and I'm still figuring out all of this subwoofer stuff, I've got a good handle on it but nothing like some of you guys.

I haven't ever heard either sub either so I don't know how they actually sound. That is the biggest reason why I'm looking for input. WINISD can tell me only so much and I don't completely understand all the specs, I do enough to tell a really bad sub though. Have any of you used one of the LXU's before? Does the O series sound better? It wouldn't surprise me one bit if they did.

here's the word I just got from Elemental, the Haxo line is a fairly new company, and they are wanting to get the line out there to be heard. The HAXO subs are more efficiently used for SPL, and excel in large sealed applications as well as ported, whereas most of the ED line are pointed more toward sq, and are meant for smaller sealed applications and smaller ported apps as well. Their basic terminology is if you like the ED subs (meaning sq), then you prob won't like the HAXO brand, and vice versa.
Yes, aznboi is correct saying that the subs don't have to be powered to their full RMS rating. However, if you match an amps max power rating to a dual subs maxed rating, by the time tuning comes into play, you will only be using around half to 3/4 of both the subs, and amps potential, thus creating a longer life for both. Also, the O's sound incredible

the Ov series do sound incredible....my 19Ov.2 pounds yet sounds good on pretty much anything I throw at it.

I was looking at the specs on the two and I was thinking the O was probably better. It has a lower total Q, lower fs, higher xmax, and more cone area.

Anyone know a home size and tuning frequency for the 16OV.2? The reason I ask is I got to thinking that may be better than doing 2 13O's. It would save me quite a bit of money and space.

Huh wow, my phone put home instead of good there earlier, sorry about that. I just put a 16OV.2 into WINISD with a 2.4 ft^3 box tuned to 30Hz and it looks really good. Louder than 2 13O's would be I think and better group delay. I also thought of a really good design to optimize my trunk space if I use 1 sub. Do you guys think 2 13OV.2's would end up being better or the 16OV.2?

Only thing is it doesn't go as deep, but in car I assume that would be taken care of.

basically depends on the budget. I have yet to hear the 160v.2, but with an assumption based on how the 130's sound, I would have to say that 1 should sound good. It obviously won't carry as much of a cone surface area, so some output will be lost, but I would have to say as long as you tune it accordingly, it should be good to go

Well, in WINISD anyways the 13O puts out around 115.5dB and the 16O puts out around 120. I've seen it said somewhere that theory says +3dB for each speaker added so the 16O should be louder than 2 13O's. And the 16O's group delay is 8ms better at 30 Hz and then obviously better in the slope around that but only a couple ms worse in the higher frequencies like 50Hz. All of this in 1 ft^3 less space than 2 13O's. All of this is theoretical by numbers obviously, but very promising. And as you said with the rep of the OV series it should most definitely sound great.

relying strictly on calculations will give a decent promise to what the actual output would conclude to, however, I have personally ran a single Alpine type R 12", in a .85 cube sealed enclosure, and hit 131 db, which totally blew my calculations out the window.
Yes, it is calculated that each additional speaker added, or twice the power output will show a 3 decibel increase. It is also noted that the more surface area that you have, based on the same power supply, will increase the sound. Case in point, the square sub that you were looking into earlier, the square design pushes more air than a circular sub, therefore giving better numbers, the same with the combination of the areas of dual subs vs 1 larger single. You should see some better numbers, lower freq control, etc

You hit that 131 dB in car though right? You get a pretty large cabin gain to F3 and dB once the sub is in car usually don't you? Also the 16OV.2 has greater xmax and spl which mean greater potential output too right? It's not just cone area really but displacement isn't it? 16OV=183120mm and 91dB 13OVx2=199470mm and 89.1dB both are pretty close, I'd say one spec would probably offset the other making them almost equal.

a single 16Ov.2 is capable of hitting 140 in a trunk. A guy over on ROE put a system in his GF's car with a single 16Ov.2 and its pretty loud.

I wouldn't look at the SPL numbers on WinISD.

Two 13Ov.2s have more cone area and can handle more power.

You are never going to get the sub to its xmax unless the enclosure is HUGE. So that doesn't really matter

Well, regardless now I am doing the 130V.2's I got one on Ebay for $80. I wanted to do the two 13O's, but I figured the 16O would be almost as good if not as good but for less money. But now I found a deal on one, so it's a go. Now I just need to take my measurements so I can figure out my box design, I hope to mount it off the floor. I do still have one question in my mind, does it matter which direction I aim my port? Should I aim it the same direction as the speaker or maybe the front of the car?

If its a trunk i would do subs back port back. In some trunks though it sounds better with subs back port to the side

Sweet, thanks a lot guys for all of your input, you were a great help!