12'' sub opinions?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=103509
Printed Date: April 20, 2024 at 4:39 AM
Topic: 12'' sub opinions?
Posted By: willdkartunes
Subject: 12'' sub opinions?
Date Posted: March 29, 2008 at 9:48 PM
I am currently looking for a new 12" subwoofer for my car after blowing the 12w7 I had in there. I am looking for something that hits just as hard (preferably harder) as the 12w7 but will last longer than the 2 months that I had it! I am looking for strictly SPL purposes and I have a 1.75 cu ft ported enclosure with the port tuned to 32hz and am running a JL Audio 1000/1 slash amp, so any sub that can take 1000 watts rms and is loud as hell I am open to consider. Here are the couple that I had in mind but haven't had experience with any of them: The RE Audio SX12, Image Dynamics IDMAX12, PPI pro 12, SPL W-12, and the DB Drive plw12 are the few I had in mind. I am kind of leaning towards the DB drive or the RE Audio....? Any opinions on these or any other brand not mentioned here would be much appreciated.
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Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
Replies:
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: March 30, 2008 at 1:55 AM
You have a lot of SQ subs listed there. I'd recommend looking at SPL specific drivers. Check out Incriminator Audio linked below for some pretty killer SPL designed subs. But also make sure you are setting your system up correctly. That will make sure you don't blow your next sub. https://www.incriminatoraudio.com/products.htm
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: March 30, 2008 at 3:36 PM
These were the best I could come up with without having to completely change my whole setup. I pretty much want to stick with the JL amp and the ported box that's in my trunk because I don't really have anymore room for anything different. That IA stuff looks killer but I couldn't power the death penalty series and I would be overpowering the lethal injection series... let me see if I could possibly fit a bigger amp... I would definitely like to stick with the JL 1000/1 if possible. Not really trying to set records with this car. I use it as a daily driver and my ears are just VERY bass hungry. Not sure what was up with the 12w7. It was loud and sq was great to my liking but didn't last long at all. Set input sens. correctly, set up the amp according to JL's recomendations as far as Q, freq, slope, infrasonic filter, etc. I also built an enclosure exactly to JL's specs. According to the JL dealer I talked to, they said that 12w7 is only rated for 750watts rms and I was definitely pushing it to it's limits. That could be... but JL Audio is suppose to be soooo good according to everyone.  Not bad stuff in my opinion but definitely overpriced. So Steven, you think the IA DP12 is louder than the 12w7......provided I give the 1500watts rms to it? I'm looking for bass that will straight up make me deaf. The W7 was all right but I need something louder. Which probably means I'm going to have to dump that piddly 1000 watt amp.... so be it. If I need to I will. ------------- Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: March 30, 2008 at 5:18 PM
The problem is that the W7 and 1000/1 wasn't a good choice for you. The W7 is one of the best SQ subs on the market, and it can get really loud. But if you want pure SPL, there are better choices. The 12W7 blew because too much power was sent to it. Whether this happened because the gains were set too high, or you turned the system up past clipping; it was still user error and not the fault of the equipment. If you push even the best stuff beyond their designed limits and they fail, it doesn't mean they are overpriced. There is nothing piddly about the 1000/1. It is an incredibly well built amplifier that can produce a lot of power even at higher impedances. The problem is that you need a lot more power at lower impedances, and that's where other amplifiers will be a better choice for you. I'd suspect the IA subs set up correctly could get louder than the W7. This will more than likely require a different enclosure and amplifier to get it there. We have some SPL competitors here that could answer that question better than I can though.
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: March 30, 2008 at 5:50 PM
I certainly wasn't knocking the reliability, or quality of JL Audio. I especially love their amplifiers which are capable of producing a true 1000 watts from 1.5-4 ohms. I also don't think that their being overpriced had anything to do with it blowing. I certainly take full responsibility for the 12w7 failing. I completely agree that I pushed it past it's limits due to me wanting more bass out of it than it could provide. I also meant exactly what you said, that I need more watts at lower ohm ratings than that slash amp can produce. Sorry I wasn't far more exact on my wording. I do believe that the cheapest scenario in my situation would be to just drop another 12 in my box hooked up to the same JL 1000/1 slash amp. Maybe in the future I will consider switching the complete setup... By the way, I can't find any dealers that sells IA products??? Out of the subs I listed, which one would you choose? I don't mind sq but I'm really looking for something loud. If any of the subs that I have listed have the capability of getting as loud or louder than my previous 12w7, then I have achieved what I set out to do. If none of the subs listed are capable of this than I would love to know so I can come up with an entirely new game plan. As I have said before, I have no experience with any of these subs (with the exception of the PPI sub) and would love advice as to which would be "the better of the bunch".
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Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: March 30, 2008 at 9:23 PM
Kephart wrote:
The problem is that the W7 and 1000/1 wasn't a good choice for you. |
Agreed - but we can certainly work with that beautiful (and NOT overpriced or overrated) amplifier - wildkar wrote:
I pretty much want to stick with the JL amp and the ported box that's in my trunk because I don't really have anymore room for anything different.
wildkar wrote:
I do believe that the cheapest scenario in my situation would be to just drop another 12 in my box hooked up to the same JL 1000/1 slash amp.
Changing your diaphram in this situation will change absolutely NOTHING about the bass your system produces. Nothing at all. Okay. You do NOT need another amp - that thing will make you deaf if you just hook it up to the RIGHT drivers - I think your problem, wildkar, is that you are trying to get output from a single subwoofer - this doesn't really work - especially when you talking about a daily driver and all - jumping about brands isn't going to help do anything but get poorer - and I'm sure NONE of the subs you've listed are in any material way better than a freakin 12w7 - For that thing to sound good at all you must have it a >2cft box? JL gives specs for that woofer through a range so some precision would be helpful - but eitherway you need CONE AREA - not another hugely expensive woofer your going to blow. To that end - why don't you try a PAIR of ported 12's? At 500watts RMS you have a massive number of choices that would perform virtually identically to (at least as far as a car moving down the road at 60mph) a w7 in terms of SQ - and get ya another 6db ~ 8db easy. Or you could really get serious and parallel three 8-ohm 10's - that'd take care of your output problem real nice. Reading over your posts, I can assure you that another 12 inch sub isn't going to do anything for you except lighten your wallet. Remember - CONE AREA. ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: March 31, 2008 at 11:40 AM
That all sounds very nice. If I had the luxury of going with more "cone area", rest assured I would definitely take that route if it was an option. Unfortunately I am dealing with a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer in which the ported 1.75 cu ft enclosure takes up almost all of that trunk space quite nicely. That is why I am sticking with a single 12. I am not about to take the back seat out and build a wall. lol. I also find it very amusing that you talk about a 12W7 as if it were the god of all 12" drivers. It is an excellent driver don't get me wrong, but for strictly SPL purposes it can easily be beaten. I have been doing a lot of reading on that IA stuff! Thank you very much Steven for mentioning it. One death penalty series 12 should be more than sufficient for my needs. I guarantee I will not blow it on 1000watts, yet according to the test results from chad hicks, the output of that sub seeing that low power is quite impressive! (while 1000watts rms is not really low by any means, it is low compared to say 5000watts) I believe it is certainly possible for me to stick with the same enclosure and amplifier and only switch drivers and probably get more decibals than the godly 12w7. sedate wrote:
Changing your diaphram in this situation will change absolutely NOTHING about the bass your system produces. Nothing at all. Okay.
Nothing at all??? I wouldn't go that far... ------------- Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
Posted By: skee-weezy
Date Posted: March 31, 2008 at 12:33 PM
considering what u already have.... i think u should probably consider steppin up to a 13w7.... only thing u will need to change would be your box..... the image dynamics is a great sub, but like the other guy said i think u might be barking up the wrong tree as far your choices in subs... if it's raw un-adulterated bass u seek... i should probably look at some ofthe more common stuff... not to mention... u can save a buck or two... and most times if u blow em up... u can do an over-the-counter swap with an authorized dealer... no sending the sub out and waiting for it to come back...... NEVER FORGET..... JL AUDIO IS A 'SOUND QUALITY COMPANY'... they don't own a single spl or db related record.. and u know what.. they have to aspirations to do so... ------------- there can be only one.......
Posted By: dustysnakes
Date Posted: March 31, 2008 at 12:35 PM
hey man hate to be the shop guy around here but just from personal experiance (8 in my car) the re sx12 is a really nice sounding sub super clean as long as you pump the power to it im running 4 merlin series md1d's on mine. and they will get loud but the port has alot to do with it. and it just so happens ehhh heeemmm ... that i have one in the shop clearanced right now for just over 2 bills sorry guys you know how slow business is lately
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keep it greasy
Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: March 31, 2008 at 6:01 PM
13W7 wont be a big improvement.
If you want SPL than you need a new enclosure and more SPL oriented subwoofer.
SPL and small enclosure don't really go hand and hand except for some fart boxes.
1000 watts can get you a lot with the right setup.
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: March 31, 2008 at 8:27 PM
wildkar wrote:
I believe it is certainly possible for me to stick with the same enclosure and amplifier and only switch drivers and probably get more decibals than the godly 12w7.
Then this would be a very foolish belief. I mean - if you really believe this, why did you insert the word 'probably'? From a strictly technical standpoint, you might see a 1 or 1.5db gain @ a certain frequency - you aren't going to experience some feeling of "oh that's what I wanted" - it just isn't going to change that much - ESPECIALLY if you don't change the enclosure. wildkar wrote:
If I had the luxury of going with more "cone area", rest assured I would definitely take that route if it was an option. Unfortunately I am dealing with a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer in which the ported 1.75 cu ft enclosure takes up almost all of that trunk space quite nicely. That is why I am sticking with a single 12. I am not about to take the back seat out and build a wall.
I drive a 03 Impreza. If I could get 3-1/4 cubes for a ported PAIR of 12's in the trunk - AND have 16 inches left for a nice display for my amps - I can assure - you can too. Excuses here amount to little more than poor carpentry skills. wildkar wrote:
yet according to the test results from chad hicks, the output of that sub seeing that low power is quite impressive!
Why don't you model it and find out for yourself how it'd stack up to a 12w7 - I think you'd be a bit suprised. https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~74558~PN~1 Anyway - you seem to have your heart set on repeating your previous mistake - eitherway, I'm interested, so keep us posted as to how your final results turn out - especially if you get that Incriminator. ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: April 01, 2008 at 10:26 AM
That's great that you can fit that nice sized enclosure in your car, but you would know what I'm dealing with if you seen my trunk! I also have 2 JL amps in the back with an extra battery as well, so 16" is hardly enough free space after the enclosure. Space is kind of tight and believe me my carpentry skills are not too bad. If I needed to make serious modifications and switch the whole setup in the trunk, I could probably fit a 2.5 cu ft box, but that's about the max for that trunk. The rear metal struts under the back panel extending into the trunk will only allow me to go so tall and wide with the box and I can only go so deep so I still have room for the amps and battery in front of the box.... I am definitely getting the Incriminator Audio Death Penalty 12" and I can guarantee that this SPL based sub in the proper enclosure will hit far more than 1 or 1.5 more db than the 12w7. I'm not sure how you think that anything JL makes could stack up to anything SPL based. As stated by another guy earlier, JL is for sound quality which happens to get pretty loud as well. "Pretty loud" doesn't mean it's good enough for SPL. There is a reason why JL Audio doesn't compete in SPL comps; because they would get killed.
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Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
Posted By: boogeyman
Date Posted: April 21, 2008 at 7:03 PM
some sound deadening would help....................
Posted By: chillin420
Date Posted: April 22, 2008 at 5:32 PM
without changing the size of your box and at least doubling the power i agree with sedate. you will not notice that much more of a difference, well you might get 4 or dbs more right before you BLOW another sub... i believe that i could easily pull out more space in your trunk... have you pulled your spare out et and worked that space into your enclosure. that would ield at least another .75 to 1 cuft... i would honestly build a new enclosure about 2.5 cuft or greater or go for sone subs like some 12w6 but two, run off the 1000/1 each sub can fir nicely in a 1 cuft enclosure and would probbly hit hader than you 1 12w7.
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you can do it....
advanced MECP, lol does it really matter....
patience is a virtue
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