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1 ohm amp

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=103779
Printed Date: December 05, 2022 at 8:17 AM


Topic: 1 ohm amp

Posted By: neontuner9
Subject: 1 ohm amp
Date Posted: April 06, 2008 at 9:34 PM

so i finally on decided on gettin an 1 ohm stable amp with 600w rms any suggestions i found kenwood has one but anything else?



Replies:

Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: April 06, 2008 at 9:44 PM

There are MANY companies! What is your price range?

For a true 600 watts rms @ 1 ohm, and VERY reliable at an affordable price only ($229), this is what I would go with:

https://www.sonicelectrnix.com/item_7560_Orion+HCCA-D1200.html



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Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others




Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: April 06, 2008 at 9:48 PM
The Cadence txa-750d is 600w RMS at 1 ohm, if you can find one they're like 150 bucks.

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Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: April 06, 2008 at 9:54 PM

Sorry 'bout the double post, but I was just thinkin that since you have a 2 ohm DVC sub, then you could just wire it at 4 ohms, in which case you could get this amp: https://www.cadencestore.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=125&idproduct=382

or this one: https://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=profile+ap1200&i=489AP1200



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Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: April 06, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Neither of those amps are NEAR the quality of Orion.




Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: April 06, 2008 at 10:52 PM

Just because you're hot for Orion, doesn't mean that those amps aren't "worthy" to power that driver.... Dude asked for ideas for amps, I gave ideas. You think I think thats as good as it gets? He said he didn't want to spend much since it's not even goin into his car. So those were the highest quality, cheap amps I could think of. Take a Ridilan and switch to decaf brother.



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Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 4:41 AM

First off, it's NOT the highest quality if it is cheap! Secondly, if you think that by spending $60 less on equipment that will not last half as long as good equipment will, then you are seriously mistaken as to giving good "ideas". By him buying cheap equipment that will fail in the near future, he will now have to spend double the money to replace the inferior equipment when he could have just spent $60 more on a quality product.

There are MANY other amplifier companies that I thoroughly enjoy, but I would certainly pick ANY Orion product over your Cadence garbage. For the small price difference, it's only common sense to go with quality.





Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 10:11 AM
well ive been told about the orion amp plenty times and believe me i know what they can do its amazin but its for my girl and she really not tryin to spend over 200 for amp i dought shell ever blow anythng even a pyrimad because she just wants bass but i drive car lot to so i want bass so kinda hard im check this Cadence txa-750d you were alkin about i have never heard of that tho and the 4 ohm opition is def out window lower ohms higher watts!!!




Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 12:56 PM

willdkartunes wrote:

First off, it's NOT the highest quality if it is cheap!

Wow, I guess I missed the part where I said cheap amps were high quality, you would think that I would know where I did seeing as how I'm the one that said it, but silly me, I guess I'm mistaken. So let me try again to say what it is I thought I was saying in the first place... He said that he wanted a cheap amp, so those amps were the best/cheap amps that I could think of. I've put the words that I guess I was mistaken about in bold, so that you might better grasp what it is that I'm saying, or trying to say.

willdkartunes wrote:

Secondly, if you think that by spending $60 less on equipment that will not last half as long as good equipment will, then you are seriously mistaken as to giving good "ideas". By him buying cheap equipment that will fail in the near future, he will now have to spend double the money to replace the inferior equipment when he could have just spent $60 more on a quality product.

Again, not quite sure when I said that it's a good idea for him to buy cheap gear, I'm pretty sure I just gave him a list of a few cheap amps. And if he were to buy it, the Cadence gear has a 3-year manufacturers warranty and the Profile has 1-year direct from Crutchfield warranty, so I'm quite sure that if they were to

willdkartunes wrote:

fail in the near future
he in fact will not have to spend double the money. However, I think you'll also find, had you actually done any kind of looking around before trying to flame me, that Profile is actually a decent company that makes a pretty good product for not much money and there is in fact a "senior member" of this forum that owns a Profile amp.

wildkartunes wrote:

There are MANY other amplifier companies that I thoroughly enjoy, but I would certainly pick ANY Orion product over your Cadence garbage. For the small price difference, it's only common sense to go with quality.

Still not sure where I said Cadence was the best, in fact the only reason I posted that link was because it was the cheapest amp I could find that would put out 600w RMS at 1 or 4 ohms. And when exactly did it become my Cadence garbage? I don't even own anything that's made by Cadence, it's too low of quality for my liking...

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neontuner9 wrote:

the 4 ohm opition is def out window lower ohms higher watts!!!

What? They're all rated for the same amount watts, whether it be at 1ohm or 4.



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Posted By: inoitall
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 2:16 PM
an amp will push out more power if its ran at 2 ohm instead of 4 ohm. This could also overheat and ruin the amp if you arent carefull with setting the gains. I do like that Orion amp though. Orion does have some very nice products. If its only a $60 difference, Id go with the Orion, but just remember that the Cadence amp also wont blow if you set the gain correctly. Basically the only real difference between a great amp and a cheap amp is that the cheap amp says it can put out 2000 watts when really can only put out maybe 800. The cheap amps will blow easier if not set up correctly. I have already owned a pyramid amp, boss,and power acustik. I currently own a soundstorm and Kole audio amp. Out of all those amps, I have never blown a single one of them. But just remember that they also cant do what the great amps can do (like the Orion).




Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 2:40 PM

You seem to have missed the point of this thread - Helping this guy make a GOOD decision on a 1 ohm stable amp. Your post is also riddled with tons of misconceptions:

theetimurban wrote:

 And if he were to buy it, the Cadence gear has a 3-year manufacturers warranty and the Profile has 1-year direct from Crutchfield warranty.

Have you ever had to send a product back on warranty? Lets just say it isn't as easy as snapping your fingers. This is how many lower end companies get people to buy their gear. (by the way, if you would read, I never mentioned anything bad about Profile.) I would rather be listening to my music instead of sending my gear back on a warranty claim, and then having to wait for it to come back! (some people don't have loads of stereo equipment laying around for when they have to send things back for warranty claims)

theetimurban wrote:

I don't even own anything that's made by Cadence, it's too low of quality for my liking...


Not only have you now made it clear that Cadence is low quality and you would never own it, but you then suggested that this is the product he should be purchasing over a far superior product! Why would you make a suggestion about products you have never owned? I would never tell anyone to buy something that I haven't experienced myself, or witnessed first hand.

Since this is quickly becoming a waste of my time and others who are reading this, lets get past all of this nonsense and down to the meat and bones. It is NOT justifiable to buy an inferior product, when a quality product is available for a mere $60 or $70 more. Period.



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Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 3:02 PM
If I may interrupt, kids... Since Orion became a Directed brand, it, along with MOST (I didn't say ALL) of the other Directed products, is crap.

Honestly, I think I'd WAY rather have the Cadence over the (newest generations of) Orion, and even in SOME cases I'd rather have the Profile amp, especially considering the OPs desire to purchase a decent one ohm capable amp for as little money as possible. Operative words: "as little money as possible". In that vein, the Profile is a perfectly acceptable recommendation. The Orion stuff is NOW garbage, and in NO WAY is it the same calibre as it once was, especially comparing today's stuff with, say, the first and second generation reds and golds. The Profile is a pretty capable piece of kit, and I'd get it WAY before an Audiobahn or something of THAT ilk.

...and I have 2200 watts of Alpine PDX in my trunk, so there.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 3:26 PM
willdkartunes wrote:

You seem to have missed the point of this thread - Helping this guy make a GOOD decision on a 1 ohm stable amp.

Actually, no, the point of this thread was for this guy to find a cheap 1ohm amp, had you read his last post you would see that he said he doesn't want to spend more than $200. I personally would just hold off on buying an amp and save money for something better, he doesn't.

wildkartunes wrote:

 Have you ever had to send a product back on warranty? Lets just say it isn't as easy as snapping your fingers.

I have, and I agree for the most part, but that was never "the point of this thread"

wildkartunes wrote:

 I would rather be listening to my music instead of sending my gear back on a warranty claim, and then having to wait for it to come back!

Who wouldn't? But even the most "top tier" companies have manufacturing errors.

wildkartunes wrote:

Not only have you now made it clear that Cadence is low quality and you would never own it, but you then suggested that this is the product he should be purchasing over a far superior product!

How about this: once Orion makes/sells an amp that is 600w RMS at 1ohm thats less than $200 and someone asks for an amp thats 600w RMS at 1ohm that costs less than $200, I'll push that on people like crack in Harlem..?

wildkartunes wrote:

Why would you make a suggestion about products you have never owned?

I never told him to buy those amps, I gave him a list of amps that were what he was looking for.

wildkartunes wrote:

  I would never tell anyone to buy something that I haven't experienced myself, or witnessed first hand

Not only do I find this hard to believe, I never actually said, "Go buy Cadence, it'll put a spring your step and a twinkle in your eye." I only ever said, "These amps are cheap and put out the power you're looking for."

wildkartunes wrote:

Since this is quickly becoming a waste of my time and others who are reading this, lets get past all of this nonsense and down to the meat and bones. It is NOT justifiable to buy an inferior product, when a quality product is available for a mere $60 or $70 more. Period.

I agree 100%. But again, I only ever answered what he asked, you're the one that feels the need to dispute everything I've said, and I choose to rebuttle because I love a good banter.



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Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 3:42 PM
Why does everyone always have to be "right"?  posted_image

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Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 4:50 PM
man i didnt wanna have read through all this non sense of people arguing back in forth just wanted simple opions of amp and its model and for buddy that say a 1,2 or 4 ohm will put out same watts i dont know what your thinkin but once again if anybody has and opionon on what 1 ohm stable amp is good and under 200 please do  list what what model orion are you talkin bout thanks




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 5:18 PM
Seriously, I have never seen a 1-ohm stable amp that costs under $200 unless it was used or unless it was a flea-market special that would probably last a couple weeks before it turned into a pile of molten roach carcases.

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Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 5:27 PM

neontuner9 wrote:

for buddy that say a 1,2 or 4 ohm will put out same watts i dont know what your thinkin

I never said that it will put out the same , what I said was that you could buy an amp that puts out 600w at 1ohm or you could buy an amp that puts out 600w at 4ohms, the latter usually being less expensive and safer to operate at.



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Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 6:38 PM

im pretty sure im go with this kenwood excelon it has 600w rms at one ohm and found one for 140 orginally 300 so ...





Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 7:56 PM

haemphyst wrote:

If I may interrupt, kids... Since Orion became a Directed brand, it, along with MOST (I didn't say ALL) of the other Directed products, is crap.

The Orion stuff is NOW garbage, and in NO WAY is it the same calibre as it once was, especially comparing today's stuff with, say, the first and second generation reds and golds.

Ouch! That hurts to hear you say that! lol!

I hear this a lot from the older audiophiles. I have had numerous old AND new products of Orion, or directed electronics for that matter! Unfortunately nobody backs up their story of why they are "garbage". I would love to hear why you think these products are now crap.



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Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others




Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 8:32 PM

haemph wrote:

If I may interrupt, kids... Since Orion became a Directed brand, it, along with MOST (I didn't say ALL) of the other Directed products, is crap.

Honestly, I think I'd WAY rather have the Cadence over the (newest generations of) Orion

Agreed, and -

wildkar wrote:

I hear this a lot from the older audiophiles. I have had numerous old AND new products of Orion, or directed electronics for that matter! Unfortunately nobody backs up their story of why they are "garbage". I would love to hear why you think these products are now crap.

My singular experience with Orion was *very* poor - having purchased an Orion 4-channel at Sounddomain (beginning of 2006, as I recall) before they stopped selling car audio gear - the thing I got in the mail was a JOKE.  The whole amplifier weighed like half of what the ultraportable I'm typing this post on weighs - the chrome wasn't chrome, it was like silverly paint that was flaking off right out of the box, and the instructions had a bunch of max power ratings in it.

After it was installed, as I was adjusting the gain, when I touched the gain knob with the screwdriver, the thing sparked and the amp CAUGHT FIRE and SMOKED for nearly 5 minutes.  It didn't even last an hour installed in the car.

That's my Orion story.



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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 07, 2008 at 9:45 PM
Well... Look at the OTHER products under the Directed umbrella...

Viper, Python, Clifford (a mere SHADOW of what it used to be) Avital? Puh-LEEZE.

Polk, DT and a/d/s... Jokes compared to their former selves, and none of them were ever REALLY good... the a/d/s PowerPlates used to be OK, but in the same era, compared to Nakamichi, Linear Power, the OLD SCHOOL Alpine stuff... Overpriced THEN, to be sure. Jolk Audio? I've met Dr. Polk, and he's as big a snake oil purveyor as Dr. Bose EVER was/is. While his company never dumped 80% of their annual operating costs into advertising as is the method for Bose, and they DO actually spend SOME money on R&D, for the money again, there are MANY manufacturers that can WASTE that gear, for less. YOU can build a better HT system for HALF the money, literally.

What is Precision now? Almost relegated to the second tier at Circuit City/Best Buy. One actually BUILT in the US, I can't even be sure that they are even still DESIGNED here. ( :::::EDIT::::: I did just find that the Directed products are, in fact, DESIGNED in the US, but since they SPECIFIY that portion, my expectation is that they are manufactured overseas) Another manufacturer hawking MAX numbers - meaningless. Orion is doing the same thing. From the Cobalt amps forward, Orion has slipped. And slipped bad.

Truly SAD what Directed has done to once great marques. Everything under the Directed umbrella is now farmed out to overseas manufacturers. Nothing that they sell or oversee CAN be taken as gospel, anymore. Respectable manufacturers still advertise RMS power ratings... Directed won't. Gotta make that dollar!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: April 08, 2008 at 10:06 AM

So far you have listed nothing but a bunch of company hoopla. So your saying the big reason for directed being crappy is because it is foreign made!!?? lol. Not to sound unamerican but almost all the things we purchase here are made overseas! From cars to shoes, it's all foreign man. I see nothing wrong with a company trying to make money either, so long as they still provide a decent product. I also have NEVER seen anything wrong mechanically, thermally, or physically wrong with Orion, PPI, Viper, or Polk Audio. In fact, Polk has a hot set of components out right now - SR6500. So far nobody has been able to tell me factual information as to why Directed is bad. There are many companies that are overseas that are good. So if you are gonna fault Directed for being overseas, then I suppose you don't like JL Audio, Morel, Focal, or MB Quart (german) either?

As far as that horrific story from Sedate, you DEFINITELY got jewed! That is not Orion's quality at all!!! Not sure what you bought but Sounddomain screwed you bad. I have never had an Orion amp do anything close to what you mentioned! They also must have sent you a fake instruction manual because I am looking at one right now! (last years model, the all chrome ones) There is NO mention of max wattage anywhere. Not under the specification section and not under the CEA specifications either! It's all rms ratings man! Make sure your buying from an authorized Orion dealer so you don't get gyped like you did anymore. If you want some quality, I'll send you some Orion amps and you can feel free to beat the hell out of them and I guarantee you they will out live you or I.



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Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others




Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 08, 2008 at 9:57 PM
i deff agree orion products were deff fire back in the old days but since direct recently bought them some no name company just dont have money like that to buy out other big name companys as far as foreign you def are correct if it wasnt for crazy smart chinese n japs we wouldnt have half the technology that we have now im not discrimminatin against any brand foreign or american made im just budget ballin n tryin bump i know its hard in car audio but there are some but few things you can keep for cheap that will last BUT IF SOMEONE COULD GIVE ME THE MODEL OF THE ORION AMP THAT DOES 1 OHM STABLE 600W RMS N ANYWHERE 1K-12K MAX would be very appericated thanks




Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: April 08, 2008 at 11:06 PM

neontuner9 wrote:

AMP THAT DOES 1 OHM STABLE 600W RMS

I still would like to know why it has to be 1ohm... You have a 2ohm DVC driver, you could wire it for 4ohms and it will still  handle 600w rms. I don't know where you got the idea that lower ohms equals more power out of a driver. The Profile AP1200 will do exactly what you want and it's under $200.



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Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 11:18 AM

so ur tellin me at 44 ohms its gonna hit just as hard as 1 ohm get off this website dude





Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 11:29 AM

yes it will...if the amp puts out 600 watts at 44ohms

a watt is a watt.  It is probably a cheaper solution to find a 2 channel amp that does 600 watts at 4 ohms.





Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 12:03 PM
neontuner9 wrote:

so ur tellin me at 44 ohms its gonna hit just as hard as 1 ohm get off this website dude

POWER is the deciding factor... NOT IMPEDANCE! I'm running my Alpine PDX1.1000 at 4 ohms to a pair of 10's in isobarik (for the surface area of only ONE 10), and you'd never know, AND you'd never believe it was only one 10 inch woofer. I PROMISE you that.

But maybe with your attitude it should be YOU getting off this website. He was trying to help you, with accurate information, and you didn't want to hear it.

Impedance means NOTHING. Look for a less expensive amp, or if BENT on spending JUST that amount of money, find an amp that does that much at 4 ohms from a RESPECTABLE manufacturer, and be happier in the long run.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Impedance means NOTHING????????

are you serious or jokin take a 2 ohm sub and 1/2 or 1 ohm amp with respectiful amp u let me know what hits harder got money on the lower ohm one all day long when this amp comes in i will video it hook up at 1 ohm n then im take it to my amp at 4 ohm and i put the db reader in just to prove to you guys lower impendance sub will rock the socks off a higer one i understand he was tryin help but gave up on askin bout 4 ohm subs i want it at 1 ohm





Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 1:22 PM
Whatever...

I am here to tell you that 600 watts is 600 watts whether it is through a dead-freakin'-SHORT, or Teflon oil. THE LOAD IS IMMATERIAL IF THE POWER IS SPECIFIED. If you take the amp you are going to buy, and connect it to a one ohm load, you will get X dB of output. I agree. Now, if you take that SAME AMP, and connect it to a 4 ohm load, you will get X dB -6 output... 'CAUSE IT'S ONLY 150 WATTS IN THAT CONFIGURATION. It's not the same as what we are trying to explain to you.

We were comparing an amplifer rated at 600 watts into 1 ohm VERSUS another, DIFFERENT amplifer rated 600 watts into 4 ohms.

Do what you want, but you're going to HAVE to learn some day that you DON'T know everything, and that if an amp is rated for 600 watts into 1 ohm, it will DO THE EXACT SAME AMOUNT OF WORK when connected to that 1 ohm load, as another amplifier rated 600 watts into 4 ohms, and connected to a 4 ohm load. Power is power. Learn this, and you'll decide that you want to learn even more!

Granted, a 4 ohm load requires more VOLTAGE to make that 600 watts, but the work performed is still 600 watts. End of story. If you have an amplifer, rated at 4 ohms and 600 watts, in THEORY you will have more power (4 times the power) into a 1 ohm load. THIS is why you think you know what you are talking about... But I think this is where your confusion lies. At 4 ohms, the work performed is 600 watts, but at 1 ohm, the work perfomed is 2400 watts... THEY'RE NOT THE SAME THING, DUDE! Do you see where you're confusing the facts?

600 watts at 4 ohms (a voltage amplifier) is a less expensive amplifer than 600 watts at 1 ohm (a current amplifier)... This is all we were trying to tell you.

But, since you are BENT on buying an amp rated at 600 watts at 1 ohm, and you seem to think that the Orion is a good buy, then it is the HCCA-D1200, and it's a piece of crap. Good luck with it.

Learn Ohm's law, and then come back and argue...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 1:58 PM
neontuner9, I have built subwoofer systems at 32 ohms that "hit" just as hard as any other.  Impedance does not matter, it is system design that matters.

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Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 2:12 PM

that i do understand but before no one was mention anything about amp ratings just last few post were they mentioned n that i do know that 4 ohm 600w rms is same as 1ohm 600w rms puttin same watts either way thats not wat i was aruging some people just need chill sometimes gettin all hype





Posted By: the12volt
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 2:44 PM

neontuner9, please attempt to use punctuation. It would make your posts much easier to understand. Thanks in advance.



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Posted By: willdkartunes
Date Posted: April 09, 2008 at 9:18 PM
neontuner9 wrote:

that i do understand but before no one was mention anything about amp ratings just last few post were they mentioned n that i do know that 4 ohm 600w rms is same as 1ohm 600w rms puttin same watts either way thats not wat i was aruging some people just need chill sometimes gettin all hype


I'm as chill as it gets, but you still need to SERIOUSLY listen to haemphyst and the others because they are 100% correct. I run subs all the time for daily listening no lower than 4 ohms and I'm sure most of the systems I've had could bang harder than you could fathom.

Ever sit in a car with the bass hittin and you could hardly breath?.... oh yeah, those subs are running at 4 ohms...



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Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others




Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: April 10, 2008 at 12:25 AM
theetimurban wrote:

Sorry 'bout the double post, but I was just thinkin that since you have a 2 ohm DVC sub, then you could just wire it at 4 ohms, in which case you could get this amp: https://www.cadencestore.com/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=125&idproduct=382

or this one: https://www.crutchfield.com/App/Product/Item/Main.aspx?search=profile+ap1200&i=489AP1200


The Alpine PDX mono amps give max output @ 2 or 4 ohms.  4 ohm from a DVC 2ohm. DONE!



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Posted By: KarTuneMan
Date Posted: April 10, 2008 at 12:32 AM

neontuner9

You are getting some real good education here.... and it's not costing you a dime.  Learn.



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Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 10, 2008 at 4:38 PM

doodie i just got my education pretty good and hadda pay 10k to go to ii

but thanks dudes wait so 1 ohm isnt good for everyday base?





Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 10, 2008 at 4:51 PM
This is what we've been trying to tell you. You have one woofer, dual 2 ohm voice coils. An amp to drive it with 600 watts into 4 ohms will likely be cheaper than an amp to drive it wired for 1 ohm AND you'll have more choices, too...

The amp will run cooler, cleaner, and last longer. Now, knowing that, do you STILL want to spend just 200 bucks?

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: neontuner9
Date Posted: April 10, 2008 at 6:01 PM
this guy recommend this candence amp i have never heard anything about them have you?




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 10, 2008 at 10:39 PM
I think that's enough.

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