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opinion sound quality ipod/cd’s

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=104228
Printed Date: October 05, 2022 at 8:43 PM


Topic: opinion sound quality ipod/cd’s

Posted By: waveshredder
Subject: opinion sound quality ipod/cd’s
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 8:38 AM

Hi again. I have a Pioneer DUH-P5000UB deck that comes with built in ipod control. If i went with a 160 gb ipod with all of my music on it, would it sound better than using cd's or would i get cd "like" sound from the ipod? cd's are getting to be pain in the butt. The ipod is so simple and could handle litteraly all of my music. I'm just not sure of the sound quality compared to cd's. Thanks in advance for your opinions.

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"To defy the laws of tradition, is a crusade only of the brave" Primus



Replies:

Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 9:04 AM
no the quality will not be as good as a CD...BUT you can raise the quality to the highest setting before transferring the files to the Ipod




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 9:12 AM
The key is how you encode the music files off your CD.  If you use any of the lossy compression schemes like MP3, your quality suffers.  If you use a lossless compression scheme like Apple Lossless or FLAC, it is very close to original CD quality.  If you use an uncompressed method like WAV or aiff, it will be exactly the same as the CD.  The iPod itself - at least the latest generation ones - reproduce surprisingly high quality sound when they have high quality files to play.

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Support the12volt.com




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 9:45 AM

Cassette tapes...now THEIR the things that got to be a pain in the butt!  8-tracks never lived long enough to go down to PITA status.  You normally only had a handful of favorites that you played, anyway.

Remember all the cellophane tape on the highways?  CD's are hardly ever "eaten"!



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 10:07 AM
DYohn is right, completely, except that iPods do not recognize .FLAC at all. They will ONLY recognize Apple Lossless (AAC lossless or .m4a) files.

If you use iTunes, you will ONLY get "near CD sound" (and BARELY that). The reason for this is because iTunes will only rip in compressed formats, and I believe that it will only rip .mp3 as high as 192K... GAH!!!! iTunes is also a bloated, resource-hogging, default-overtaking, security-hole-riddled POS. I highly recommend AGAINST it. And that is a recommendation from the IT guy in me, forget how I feel about it personally! Additionally, you MUST CHOOSE BETWEEN ONE MANAGER OR THE OTHER! iTunes will become the default on any computer you install it on, and will delete any files you have already transferred to your device.. iTunes SUCKS!

If getting the Classic 160, (and ripping lossless) as I did, you'll be able to still get THOUSANDS of songs on it. I use all lossless ripping, (the largest footprint) and I have over 2500 songs right now, and I have used just over 32G. If you want true CD quality, you will have to use lossless formats, but this will relegate you to using YOUR deck, and no others (unless they also support lossless playback, like the Alpine W205).

How do I get my music, then? I use dBPoweramp with the .m4a lossless CODEC for ripping, and I use MediaMonkey for controlling the device. Both free, and FANTASTIC pieces of software, I highly recommend using them! (And donating, as I did, to help these guys and thank them for their work.)

iTunes will only allow you to copy music TO your iPod, once there, you cannot remove it, you cannot connect your iPod to another computer, copy it, burn it to CD... Nothing. iTunes will also only rip to lower bit-rates. If you BUY your music from iTunes (God forbid you BUY inferior format music!! And I assure you AAC is inferior - it is a compressed format, and the DEFAULT format from iTunes!) you will get a one way transfer, and once in place on your device, I hope you REALLY like it there, because you can do two things with it from there... Listen to it, and delete it. If you want true CD quality, you need to rip "lossless". MediaMonkey allows two way data transfer, on-the-fly bulk file tagging, a really nice player interface, small (resource-wise), and I have found it to be quite stable.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: waveshredder
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 12:39 PM
haemphyst wrote:

DYohn is right, completely, except that iPods do not recognize .FLAC at all. They will ONLY recognize Apple Lossless (AAC lossless or .m4a) files.

If you use iTunes, you will ONLY get "near CD sound" (and BARELY that). The reason for this is because iTunes will only rip in compressed formats, and I believe that it will only rip .mp3 as high as 192K... GAH!!!! iTunes is also a bloated, resource-hogging, default-overtaking, security-hole-riddled POS. I highly recommend AGAINST it. And that is a recommendation from the IT guy in me, forget how I feel about it personally! Additionally, you MUST CHOOSE BETWEEN ONE MANAGER OR THE OTHER! iTunes will become the default on any computer you install it on, and will delete any files you have already transferred to your device.. iTunes SUCKS!

If getting the Classic 160, (and ripping lossless) as I did, you'll be able to still get THOUSANDS of songs on it. I use all lossless ripping, (the largest footprint) and I have over 2500 songs right now, and I have used just over 32G. If you want true CD quality, you will have to use lossless formats, but this will relegate you to using YOUR deck, and no others (unless they also support lossless playback, like the Alpine W205).

How do I get my music, then? I use dBPoweramp with the .m4a lossless CODEC for ripping, and I use MediaMonkey for controlling the device. Both free, and FANTASTIC pieces of software, I highly recommend using them! (And donating, as I did, to help these guys and thank them for their work.)

iTunes will only allow you to copy music TO your iPod, once there, you cannot remove it, you cannot connect your iPod to another computer, copy it, burn it to CD... Nothing. iTunes will also only rip to lower bit-rates. If you BUY your music from iTunes (God forbid you BUY inferior format music!! And I assure you AAC is inferior - it is a compressed format, and the DEFAULT format from iTunes!) you will get a one way transfer, and once in place on your device, I hope you REALLY like it there, because you can do two things with it from there... Listen to it, and delete it. If you want true CD quality, you need to rip "lossless". MediaMonkey allows two way data transfer, on-the-fly bulk file tagging, a really nice player interface, small (resource-wise), and I have found it to be quite stable.
  Excellent, freaking, reply !! I can't thank you enough for your candid talk. It just so happenes that i downloaded MediaMonkey this morning. I will definitely use it and conribute.

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"To defy the laws of tradition, is a crusade only of the brave" Primus




Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 6:50 PM
iTunes is a lot better than Zune...Microsoft sucks at making software.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 9:56 PM

aznboi3644 wrote:

Microsoft sucks at making software.

One of the world's richest men shrugs that off and goes on his merry way to the BANK.   DOH!

Just a story:  when Bill Gates was just a pauper putting all the pieces together long before the debut of the first Windows, he bought a software program from a little company that my brother was involved with.  It was Paintbrush.  Yep, my bro was a member of the group that developed (what is now known as) Paint...(and my bro is still a pauper).

https://www.answers.com/topic/pc-paintbrush-1?cat=technology



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: April 24, 2008 at 10:00 PM

aznboi wrote:

Microsoft sucks at making software

Redmond's three-hundred billion dollar market capitalization would beg to disagree.

https://finance.google.com/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:MSFT

Dyohn] wrote:

he key is how you encode the music files off your CD.  If you use any of the lossy compression schemes like MP3, your quality suffers.  If you use a lossless compression scheme like Apple Lossless or FLAC, it is very close to original CD quality.  If you use an uncompressed method like WAV or aiff, it will be exactly the same as the CD.

haemph wrote:

The reason for this is because iTunes will only rip in compressed formats, and I believe that it will only rip .mp3 as high as 192K... GAH!!!!

I can't hear the difference between mp3's @ 128kbps and a CD.  192kbps and a CD are sonically indistinguishable formats.

No stereo - installed a CAR of all places - could possibly articulate these differences . . .



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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 25, 2008 at 12:26 AM
I STRONGLY beg to differ. At listening levels required to overcome road noise, with the windows down, the high frequency artifacting is SO fatiguing... It eventually becomes painful. (Not to mention what compression artifacts do to bass frequencies.) You need to sit in a car with significantly higher resolution some day.

Sonically indistinguishable, huh? I can guarantee you that even at 320k, I can hear the difference in my house. They are ABSOLUTELY NOT indistinguishable. MP3 just plain sucks. It does. Period.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: April 25, 2008 at 12:36 AM

haemphyst wrote:

Not to mention what compression artifacts do to bass frequencies.

Well hell, I'll ask it-- What do compression artifacts do to bass frequencies?



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Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 25, 2008 at 1:50 AM
They get "furry". What used to be nice, fast, attacks become loose, flabby, lose articulation.

Mid-bass transients go out the window, too. SO MANY bad things happen when compressing music like that...

A fantastic example: The Wallflowers, Bringing Down the Horse. Play a WAV file or a lossless version of track one - One Headlight. This is one track that will beat the shiite out of your midbass drivers, I guarantee it. Play it LOUD. GREAT transient track, with a ridiculously fast and deep kick drum. You should feel this one, it's not a "listen to" track - a DRIVING song. Now compress it... What the hell, go to 128K. Listen again. You'll hear the difference, pretty much immediately.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: April 25, 2008 at 2:07 AM
I know Microsoft makes billions...yet they can't even make a simple Zune software that works and is user friendly.

I can't even change the details for the songs like the artists or song titles...I have to use another program for that.

I know on iTunes it's easy to do everything.




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 25, 2008 at 2:15 AM
aznboi3644 wrote:

I know on iTunes it's easy to do everything.

Except what YOU want to do. It's easy to "everything" as long as it fits Steve Jobs' idea of "fair use".

It's a POS. Use other software. Free, secure, stable, manipulable... Any or all of the above... There are other answers to iTunes.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: theetimurban
Date Posted: May 03, 2008 at 1:43 PM

haemphyst wrote:

What used to be nice, fast.....become loose, flabby

Story of my life........



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Posted By: teenkertoy
Date Posted: May 04, 2008 at 6:08 AM
sedate wrote:

I can't hear the difference between mp3's @ 128kbps and a CD. 192kbps and a CD are sonically indistinguishable formats.

No stereo - installed a CAR of all places - could possibly articulate these differences . . .




Not everybody can hear the difference, and more power to you. You won't have to spend money upgrading your audio systems in your car, home, office, etc because of it. Good for you.

Some people however, and I'm guessing the vast majority of the long time users of this forum, can absolutely hear the difference. Quit spreading your opinion as fact.

128 vs CD is easy, 192 vs CD starts to blur the line, but it's still there. Not always as easy to detect, but it's kind of like wine tasting. Some people can taste what kind of wood the wine was stored in, while others just enjoy whites or reds.

As for the iPod, absolutely go for a lossless, first generation rip. That is, rip straight from your CDs instead of converting whatever you might have already. If you start with an mp3 and then convert it to AAC, it will still sound like junk. "Garbage in, garbage out". And stay away from iTunes, it's best advice any iPod user could have.

-Justin

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Malcom: "This is the captain. We have a...little problem with our engine sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then...explode."
Jayne: "We're gonna explode? I don't wanna explode.




Posted By: deegz97
Date Posted: June 30, 2008 at 1:30 PM

Hi everyone! First time poster. I just joined this morning...been meandering through the site for about 3 months trying to figure out up from down as I jump back into the world of car audio (I have been out of the scene for about 10 years).

I agree with the itunes is (expletive deleted) notion. But my question lies here: I will go home tonight and download one of the other applications mentioned by haemphyst, but the how do I load the raw files to my ipod? This may seem like a dumb question, but curious. Will those programs recognize my ipod or do I need to link the itunes library to the new, raw versions of the chosen songs?

Thanks to all for the thoughts, help and general knowledge found on this site! It is a life/mind saver!

jeff





Posted By: gus1
Date Posted: June 30, 2008 at 3:35 PM
Well, for those of you that absolutely need to use something with a piece of fruit on it, try RockBox. Solid program. Encode at 320 or better yet FLAC, or straight WAV.

I will stick to MTP players.... they all use Windows Media for an interface, don't care what computer they are connected to, and moving files on and off is a breeze. The one I happen to have (Creative Zen) supports whatever you can play in WMP, and Audible book format, and .MP4 (oddly enough).

It is awful nice that Apple has convinced the masses that their product is the best..... marketing is a powerful thing........

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Wherever I go, that is where I end up......




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: June 30, 2008 at 4:19 PM
I use my iPod and iTunes everything ripped in Apple Lossless and it sounds more than fine.  But hey, do whatever floats yer boat.

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Support the12volt.com




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: June 30, 2008 at 6:33 PM
I hate Itunes and have been looking for a replacement so I will try your suggestions guys. One question though, when I swithc programs do I have to reformat my Ipod and reload all the music or can I keep whats on there? I mean I guess for best sound I would want to dump it anyways. Also do these programs allow me to load video as well as audio or only audio. Thanks

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: June 30, 2008 at 10:50 PM
DYohn] wrote:

I use my iPod and iTunes everything ripped in Apple Lossless and it sounds more than fine.  But hey, do whatever floats yer boat.

How you gettin' M4A from iTunes? Last time I checked it didn't support the lossless... Not only thet, but I like being able to copy my files off WITHOUT having to ask permission! ;)

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: July 01, 2008 at 8:11 AM
M4A is (and to the best of my knowledge always has been) one of the default formats for ripping to iTunes.  I do not puirchase any music from their store, all my tunes are off my CDs.

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Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: July 01, 2008 at 9:27 AM
Yes, that is true, but M4A is not, by default, lossless. The iTunes doesn't support lossless ripping, AFAIK.

See here:
m4a.jpg

You'll notice that both formats (lossless and AAC) can carry an M4A extension. The playback software will have to have the correct CoDec installed to play, or you'll get an "unrecognized file type" error.

FLASH: With a moment of searching, I was able to find that apparently, and according to wiki, iTunes 7 does support lossless.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: July 01, 2008 at 9:34 AM
so I downloaded media monkey and it pretty much rocks to no end so far, but d you have an alternative program for loading video as well?

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: July 01, 2008 at 9:53 AM

haemphyst wrote:

FLASH: With a moment of searching, I was able to find that apparently, and according to wiki, iTunes 7 does support lossless.

For your dining and dancing pleasure:  https://www.applelossless.com/

I have compared the same file ripped using Apple lossless via iTunes, using WAV via Music Man Jukebox, using FLAC via WinAmp, and direct off the CD.  To my jaded ears on my home 2-channel system the difference, if there is any, is not audible. YRMV.



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Support the12volt.com




Posted By: jettagli03
Date Posted: July 01, 2008 at 9:57 AM
iTunes selecting Lossless Encoder:

Edit/Preferences/Advanced/Importing

Then you click on "Import Using" and select Apple Lossless Encoder.

It's that simple.




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: July 01, 2008 at 8:17 PM
OK. So the latest version of iTunes supports lossless. I can admit that. I still won't install it on my computer! :) I'd MUCH rather use a free software that allows me to freely copy, listen, delete... isn't a resource hog, doesn't change system settings to suit it's own needs and desires... isn't riddled with security flaws, doesn't give me Opera when it automatically updates (yes, I know I can turn that "feature" off, but why should I have to?)

Hmmm... Yeah, MediaMonkey for me...

Good information, DYohn. Thank you.

Here's my search for video alternates...

Floola information...
Floola video...
Floola home...

This method DOESN'T WORK! (I only mention this, in case you stumble across it in your searchings)

Mentioned at the end of the CNet video:
Ephpod2
XPlay3 (Not so much a fan of this one, I think...)

There are a couple of options for you to try for video management. Lemme know what you think of them!

Ephpod seems to be impossible to find for download. Hurry here before IT disappears, too!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."





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