2 jl w6 vs w7 and 12 vs 13
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=105617
Printed Date: April 18, 2024 at 6:47 PM
Topic: 2 jl w6 vs w7 and 12 vs 13
Posted By: swargy
Subject: 2 jl w6 vs w7 and 12 vs 13
Date Posted: June 22, 2008 at 5:07 PM
As the title says, I'm stuck between the following
qty type
2 12w6v2
1 13w6v2
1 12w7
1 13w7
I currently have 2 Infinity 12.1D subs. I do not want to lose SPL but I want to gain sq. I do know that the w6 have better sq but I'm thinking that the 13w6 isn't any louder than my current subs, but 2 12w6v2 should be louder and have better sq.
I have only heard the w7 once and I HATED it. Yes it was extremely loud but the sq went to crap at loud volumes. All it did was mash together all the notes and it was just a ton of crappy bass. I don't know if the guy had a crappy setup or if that is how the sub really is.
I have always liked the look of two subs instead of one. I am willing to build an enclosure up to 2.5 cu ft. I will be building a sealed enclosure since it is better for sq. From what the jl site says 2 12w6 would need 2.5 cu ft. and a w7 will need 1.8 cu ft so that is fine.
According to the JL site the 13w6 moves 69% more air than the 12w6 and the 13w7 moves 39% more air than the 12w7. Yes 69% is a lot but it isn't 100% so it isn't as good as 2 12w6. Also given my setup below it seems like it would be stupid to have that powerful of an amp and only go with one sub.
As for my setup, here it is...
-Kicker 1/0 gauge wiring. 4 ga is going to the amp.
-Rockford Fosgate t10001bd. According to birth sheet it is 1400W @ 1 ohm, so more than enough power for all these subs. The only thing I don't like about the w7 is the weird impedance. Why would they choose 3 ohms!?
Also for the enclosure I plan to us 3/4" MDF for the whole thing except the back. I plan to use 1/2" polycarbonate (lexan NOT plexi) for the back. Is this a bad idea? I am OK with bracing it if I need to. It isn't that big of a deal to have the polycarbonate but I would like to have it. Also the amps will be where my spare tire is currently. With this new setup I would be unable to access my spare tire anyways so I figured why keep it in there. Ill just free up some space and make the install nice and clean.
Replies:
Posted By: swargy
Date Posted: June 22, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Also forgot to say I have a pioneer DEH-7800mp deck. I believe it has 5v preouts. And Stinger Dream Series interconnects.
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: June 22, 2008 at 7:29 PM
The W7 you heard had to have been set up incorrectly. Either the amplifier was set up wrong causing the signal to clip early, the enclosure was wrong, or the sub was being overdriven. Because the W7 is one of the best SQ subs on the market. I would definitely take it over a pair of W6's any day (although the W6 is a very nice sub too). That amp has a lot of power so whatever setup you choose, be very careful on setting the gains and turn it down if you hear any distortion. This is especially true since your head unit has high voltage pre-outs. And just because your amp makes a ton of power at low impedances, there is no reason to choose the subs just based on trying to load it down to get that power. You always want to match the amp to the subs, not the other way around.
Posted By: swargy
Date Posted: June 22, 2008 at 10:27 PM
I was hoping you could tell me why you would take the w7 over a pair of w6s.
I have only heard from one other person and they said that the sq is about equal between 1 w7 and 2 w6.
Also I currently have that amp at 1/4 gain and it is too much for my current subs! Like I always do, when I get my new sub whatever it might be, I will start the gain out pretty low and work my way up.
Also with the W7 if I wire it in series I will be running 3 ohms and only about 800W into the sub. If I wire it in parallel it won't match the amp so I am unable to do that. Wouldn't 800W into a w7 be worse than 1400W into 2 w6? Especially since the w7 can handle up to 1500W safely.
Also... If I do decide to go with the w7 would the 13" be worth the extra money?
Posted By: theterminator
Date Posted: June 23, 2008 at 1:01 AM
Check out TC Sounds/Audiopulse. Tremendous SQ and good spl. Just remember your system is only as good as its weakest link.
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: June 23, 2008 at 1:38 AM
swargy wrote:
I was hoping you could tell me why you would take the w7 over a pair of w6s.
I like the sound of it better than the W6's. The shop I work at is a JL dealer so I've heard quite a few systems using both subs. The W7 uses a specialized overhung motor topology that keeps BL consistent over excursion thereby lowering distortion (primarily 3rd order).
swargy wrote:
Also I currently have that amp at 1/4 gain and it is too much for my current subs! Like I always do, when I get my new sub whatever it might be, I will start the gain out pretty low and work my way up.
Then you are setting your gains incorrectly. It doesn't matter where on the dial the gain is set just as long as it is set correctly for the input level.
swargy wrote:
Also with the W7 if I wire it in series I will be running 3 ohms and only about 800W into the sub. If I wire it in parallel it won't match the amp so I am unable to do that. Wouldn't 800W into a w7 be worse than 1400W into 2 w6? Especially since the w7 can handle up to 1500W safely.
Why would that be worse? Thermally the W7 can probably handle 1500 watts safely. But the enclosure used will determine the mechanical power handling of the sub.
swargy wrote:
Also... If I do decide to go with the w7 would the 13" be worth the extra money?
That depends. The nice thing about the W7 is that they use proprietary motors for the different sizes. This means that each size is engineered to perform within their intended parameters with fewer compromises. The 13 will be a little louder and have a shallower roll-off down low. However the compromise is it requires a larger enclosure.
Posted By: swargy
Date Posted: June 24, 2008 at 3:49 PM
So I decided to go with 2 12w6v2 subs. I plan to buy them online this friday so I hope to have the boxes built and subs installed on saturday the 5th. I'll let you guys know how I like them.
I decided the w6 because it seems stupid to buy a w7 and run it at 800W if I could run each of the w6 at 700W. I have come to the conclusion that the w7 is all around better than the w6 (if properly enclosed) but in my opinion it isn't worth buying the w7 since the sq increase in minimal and at these powers the spl would probably decrease.
Isn't it a gain in volume takes either a gain in air displacement and/or power. Well the air displacement between 1 13w7 and 2 12w6 are almost equal and the power on the w6s will be more than on the w7 thus increase in volume.
Thanks for everyones help.
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: June 24, 2008 at 4:03 PM
swargy wrote:
I have come to the conclusion that the w7 is all around better than the w6 (if properly enclosed) but in my opinion it isn't worth buying the w7 since the sq increase in minimal and at these powers the spl would probably decrease
Good conclusion. . . ! I had a 13w6 and replaced it with a pair of 12w3's - much, much happier. ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: June 24, 2008 at 5:45 PM
Find a authorized dealer for your JL purchase.....there is nothing like getting the shaft from a e-tailer with no warranty support from JL Audio as they do not authorize any dealer to sell online. Penny saved, pound foolish.
-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: June 24, 2008 at 6:46 PM
I thought Crutchfield is an authorized online dealer
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: June 24, 2008 at 8:16 PM
swargy wrote:
but in my opinion it isn't worth buying the w7 since the sq increase in minimal and at these powers the spl would probably decrease.
How can you have that opinion if your only experience is with an improperly set up W7? Linear motor topology woofers like the W7 are in a leage of their own IMO. But then based on your posts I'd say you are looking more for output than SQ so I would say you made the correct decision. I hope you enjoy your new system! 
Posted By: swargy
Date Posted: June 25, 2008 at 6:21 PM
Steven Kephart wrote:
swargy wrote:
but in my opinion it isn't worth buying the w7 since the sq increase in minimal and at these powers the spl would probably decrease.
How can you have that opinion if your only experience is with an improperly set up W7? Linear motor topology woofers like the W7 are in a leage of their own IMO. But then based on your posts I'd say you are looking more for output than SQ so I would say you made the correct decision. I hope you enjoy your new system!
I might be changing my mind slowly. I was looking at the specs of the 13w7 and the 13w6v2. I was also looking at enclosures. With 2 w6s I would need a larger enclosure than just 1 w7 and I dont have that much trunk space. Also 1 13w7 will be louder and have better sq then the w6. So I'm about 90% I'm getting the 13w7.
the 13w7 displaces 5.9 L of air while 2 12w6 will only displace 5 L of air so it will be louder.
Another reason I was drawn in towards this sub is because I went to see it at a local dealer and the sight of it just sitting on a table just made my mouth drool :)
also I could either really overpower the w6 or slightly underpower the w7.
I had one last question though. Would it be fine to run the 13w7 at 800W? Would I be reaching the limits of the sub or not even come close?
Also.... Would it be a bad idea to run my 1 ohm stable amp at .75 ohms? I would probably be pulling about 1600W then.
thanks
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: June 25, 2008 at 8:17 PM
800 watts would work just fine with the W7. I am in the process of building a system using a single 12W7 and a 500/1. What's nice is the lower power allows me to build the enclosure a little larger without worrying about the customer damaging the sub. I wouldn't recommend running the amp below it's rated impedance. It will more than likely eventually damage the amplifier, and the damage may not stop at just the amp. Keep in mind that power ratings are only helpful as guides, not as audio laws. As long as you are happy with the results, don't worry about the fact that you aren't loading the amplifier to it's limits. Because to be honest, the difference in output produced from a sub running at 800 watts compared to 1600 watts is only 3dB which isn't that noticeable. And that's without taking into account power and thermal compression from the sub and power supply sag in the amp.
Posted By: swargy
Date Posted: June 25, 2008 at 11:59 PM
Good point with the 3db increase. I knew that but didn't think about that. 13w7 should be pretty awesome though, especially paired up with the diamond audio hex components.
Also I plan to build a sealed box to JLs specs. The only problem Is I'm not positive id I can get a box that is more than 15" tall and I have to have it be AT LEAST 15" tall since the sub is 13.5" + 2 3/4" MDF pieces.
Also I plan to put a polycarbonate sheet on the back of the box. I already bought the sheet. It is 1/2" thick. Is that enough? If it isn't then I'll just double up the 1/2" sheet since I have enough.
Remember, polycarbonate is NOT plexiglass, it is much much stronger.
I'll let you know how I like the sub when I get it, but I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed.
Also when I do get it my friend and I just want to mess around and we are going to put my 13w7 in his car along with my 2 old infinity 12.1D subs and then his 2 12w3v3 subs just to see what kind of spl we get.
Posted By: pbguy
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 2:12 PM
You are worried bout it too much. That amp pushing one 12w7/13w7will be perfect, if you port it I would expect around the same db numbers as your old set up. I have a 500/1 on my 12w7 and its retarded loud and clean.
Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:10 PM
swargy wrote:
I might be changing my mind slowly
No No! Dude - if you want OUTPUT you want CONE AREA. swargy wrote:
Another reason I was drawn in towards this sub is because I went to see it at a local dealer and the sight of it just sitting on a table just made my mouth drool :)
No! None of that overbuilt, roided-out sub makes NOISE except the CONE. All that 10 or 11 inches of subwoofer isn't going to do anything for ya except make ur install difficult. Great, clean sound at excursion is all fine and good - but this is going into a vehicle - that chugs down the road and accepts all sorts of foriegn noise and such - the real differences between these subs (w6 and w7) are minimal at best - forget hearing a difference once this thing is installed into a vehicle meant for public roads. swargy wrote:
I had one last question though. Would it be fine to run the 13w7 at 800W?
Kephart wrote:
800 watts would work just fine with the W7.
pbguy] wrote:
have a 500/1 on my 12w7 and its retarded loud
I - uhh - would seriously graph these types of statements in WinISD before you take such un-empirical observations to heart and wallet - you'll find the w7 will lag *significantly* behind the w6's under the power conditions you've laid out. Furthermore - swargy wrote:
I currently have 2 Infinity 12.1D subs. I do not want to lose SPL but I want to gain sq. I do know that the w6 have better sq but I'm thinking that the 13w6 isn't any louder than my current subs, but 2 12w6v2 should be louder and have better sq.
pbguy] wrote:
if you port it I would expect around the same db numbers as your old set up
I can assure you - I was dumb enough once to replace a pair of Perfects with a 13w6 - you're not going to get much out of this very expensive equipment swap. If you want to gain SQ - I would start with deadening the entire car - not replacing such quality woofers like a DVC Perfect. Again - go back to WinISD - you're sacrificing all kinds of output. swargy wrote:
Also I plan to build a sealed box to JLs specs.
If you want OUTPUT, particularly anything that can compete with 12.1D's - this is a BAD idea. Build a PORTED box to .5cft larger than the JL recommendations - especially at a paltry 800 watts. Anyway - If I HAD to buy subs in ur situation- I think Kephart's own perennial favorite would be highly appropriate here: https://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=24_93&products_id=653 ------------- "I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Posted By: swargy
Date Posted: July 13, 2008 at 2:25 PM
Just an update on this. I finally finished my install. I made a sealed box that is approx 1.9 cu. ft. the front is 1.5" MDF, the sides, top, and bottom are 3/4" MDF, and the back is 1" polycarbonate. the inside is all lined with mirrors.
I have the sub wired in series so it is running at about 800W. It sounds A lot better than my old subs. It seems to blend in a lot better with the speakers, does an amazing job at hitting extremely low notes. I love listening to Carmina Burana, especially when the kick drum hits.
At higher volumes it is extremely loud. I was very amazed.
The only problems I have with it are,
1. At higher volumes it seems to miss some notes, but it isn't a huge problem since I rarely play the sub that loud, and it is a huge improvement over my old setup.
and 2. When it was wired in parallel and was receiving about 1600 Watts it clipped VERY easily. I was a but disappointed with that since I expected the sub to handle that much power with ease.
Overall I believe that the sub was a great purchase.
Posted By: Steven Kephart
Date Posted: July 13, 2008 at 6:42 PM
swargy wrote:
The only problems I have with it are,
1. At higher volumes it seems to miss some notes, but it isn't a huge problem since I rarely play the sub that loud, and it is a huge improvement over my old setup.
and 2. When it was wired in parallel and was receiving about 1600 Watts it clipped VERY easily. I was a but disappointed with that since I expected the sub to handle that much power with ease.
Overall I believe that the sub was a great purchase.
I'm assuming you went with the W7 then? I'm glad to hear that you are happy with your system now. 1. Keep in mind that this is a very low distortion driver. Non-mechanical speaker based distortion is harmonic in nature so you were probably used to your old speakers producing harmonics of the fundamental frequency that increase with excursion and volume. So it's not missing notes, it's just not adding it's own notes.  2. Speakers don't clip. What you were probably hearing is either your head unit or amplifier clipping. It can sound very mechanical. Either that or you are hearing the sub run beyond it's mechanical limits. Mechanical power handling is a function of the enclosure. Either way you are pushing your system to it's limits at that point which means you should imediately turn it down before damage occurs.
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