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center channel

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=105720
Printed Date: April 24, 2024 at 1:42 AM


Topic: center channel

Posted By: getz999
Subject: center channel
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:11 PM

Me and the boys on my car forum are having a little debate.

I recently threw in a center channel speaker in my vehicle. A little 4 inch Infinity Reference.


The factory speaker locations are being powered by an Infinity 4 channel amp.

In order to power the center speaker, I bridged it over my front two channels coming off of the radio.Taking the negative from the front left, and the positive from the front right.

They are saying that the impedeance is now 2ohms, and will cause my head unit to fry. I know this is not true, as the radio is still being presented with a 4 ohm load. However, I am fully aware that the head unit is now working twice as hard to power my center speaker. I am also fully aware that this is not necessarily a TRUE center channel,I am holding off on purchasing a center channel amplifier for now.

I guess my real point of this topic is, does anyone see anything inherently wrong with the way I setup the speaker. Once again, I realize the radio is working a little harder, but I do not see this causing my radio to go up in smoke, or anything of the like.

Thoughts?

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I drive a Saturn...commence insults



Replies:

Posted By: jar754
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:19 PM
what kind of radio?




Posted By: sedate
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:21 PM

getz]I wrote:

bridged it over my front two channels coming off of the radio.Taking the negative from the front left, and the positive from the front right.

They are saying that the impedeance is now 2ohms, and will cause my head unit to fry. I know this is not true, as the radio is still being presented with a 4 ohm load.

Um.  You probably won't have ur head unit for long. 

They correct - you are presenting your head unit - designed to run 4-ohm ONLY - with a 2-ohm per channel load.  This will, in all likelyhood, damage/destroy ur head unit at some point in the near future.

getz] wrote:

does anyone see anything inherently wrong with the way I setup the speaker. Once again, I realize the radio is working a little harder, but I do not see this causing my radio to go up in smoke

Well you won't see it go up in smoke, as u'll be shorting an integrated circuit instead of a coil - it'll prolly just shutoff - permanently - at some point in the very near future.

You should disconnect that speaker dude.

getz]I wrote:

drive a Saturn...commence insults

Insults?  At $4.50/gallon?  Looks like you CAN make good choices. . . .



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"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview




Posted By: jmelton86
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:29 PM

With proper installation of the front speakers, this ghetto 'center channel' will not be needed.



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2013 Kia Rio -90a alternator
DDX470HD GTO14001 GTO1014D (x3)
Big3 in 1/0G
1/0G to GTO14001




Posted By: getz999
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:32 PM
I dont see how I am presenting the radio with a 2ohm load

Its a Pioneer 7800, probably 25ish RMS per channel

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I drive a Saturn...commence insults




Posted By: advanced_audio
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 8:15 PM
It's simple ohms law. Search for ohms law and you will get why your radio will be very quiet soon.




Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 8:25 PM

Since you are powering your other speakers with an amplifier, if the only speaker connected to your head unit is the center channel speaker, your radio will be fine.  On your radio each channel acts as a bridged amplifier connection.  On a 2 channel bridgeable amplifier, there are 4 terminals.  The 2 terminals that are not used to bridge the amp.  Usually the left negative and the right positive are connected together.  They are essentially the ground for that channel.  The left positive and the right negative wires have audio signal on them.  The right channel is electronically inverted (180 degrees out of phase with the left channel).  So when you bridge an amp there is now voltage on both the positive and the negative wire.  Bridging a 2 channel amp into a 4 ohm load is the same as having each channel running into a 2 ohm load.  2 ohm left plus 2 ohm right = 4 ohms across the amp.  Same as a 4 ohm mono load. 

Your radio just as the bridged amp has voltage on both the positive and negative wires.  Essentially your radio has 4 bridged amplifiers built into it.  So if you use one wire from front left and the opposite wire from the front right, your radio output chip will be fine as long as you do not have any other speakers connected to the front channels.      But as JMelton stated above it will probably be ghetto.    For a center channel speaker to work properly, special decoding in needed to tell the speaker what to play.  Stereo means 2 separate channels, one left and one right.  That is where you get stereo separation.  With the center speaker basically being a mix of the left and right channels, I really think it will do major harm to your sound quality. 





Posted By: getz999
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 8:50 PM
i am an idiot wrote:

Since you are powering your other speakers with an amplifier, if the only speaker connected to your head unit is the center channel speaker, your radio will be fine.  On your radio each channel acts as a bridged amplifier connection.  On a 2 channel bridgeable amplifier, there are 4 terminals.  The 2 terminals that are not used to bridge the amp.  Usually the left negative and the right positive are connected together.  They are essentially the ground for that channel.  The left positive and the right negative wires have audio signal on them.  The right channel is electronically inverted (180 degrees out of phase with the left channel).  So when you bridge an amp there is now voltage on both the positive and the negative wire.  Bridging a 2 channel amp into a 4 ohm load is the same as having each channel running into a 2 ohm load.  2 ohm left plus 2 ohm right = 4 ohms across the amp.  Same as a 4 ohm mono load. 

Your radio just as the bridged amp has voltage on both the positive and negative wires.  Essentially your radio has 4 bridged amplifiers built into it.  So if you use one wire from front left and the opposite wire from the front right, your radio output chip will be fine as long as you do not have any other speakers connected to the front channels.      But as JMelton stated above it will probably be ghetto.    For a center channel speaker to work properly, special decoding in needed to tell the speaker what to play.  Stereo means 2 separate channels, one left and one right.  That is where you get stereo separation.  With the center speaker basically being a mix of the left and right channels, I really think it will do major harm to your sound quality. 




Thank you, this is the kind of response I was lookin for. I have been basic MECP certified for the past couple of years, and am currently working on my Advanced Certification. I more than understand Ohms Law.

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I drive a Saturn...commence insults




Posted By: getz999
Date Posted: June 26, 2008 at 8:55 PM
Also, as I said, I am currently in the process of looking at center channel amps/decoders. I realize sound quality is not being maximized with the current setup, it was more or less an experiment.

And it is correct that a properly setup up front, will almost eliminate the need for a center channel, but I am always into the game of trying stuff I have never tried before.

As a proffessional, I am constantly learnign and trying to better myself in terms of installation. This market is constantly evolving and changing every year, which means my skills will have to change and improve at a constant rate.

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I drive a Saturn...commence insults




Posted By: audiocableguy
Date Posted: June 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM
I'm with jmelton and "I am" with this one. More speakers aren't always the answer and the less processing the better.


"I more than understand Ohms Law". Never heard ANYONE say this.




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: June 27, 2008 at 6:59 PM
First of all, since you can't bridge an OTL (Output TransformerLess) ouput, or bridged output, you are not bridged at all... You can't "bridge a bridge". Since the reference is still the same mid-point voltage, with no opposing voltage interconnect or reference, you are simply running the deck at 4 ohms. You would have the same output delivered to the 4" center channel whichever of the 4 front channel wires you used, in whatever combination.

:::::AFTER CLOSER RE-READING:::::
...of the entire thread, I see that i am already explained this to you. posted_image

Long days of work and then longer nights of additional work make me sometimes jump ahead without fully observing... Sorrry kids!

I have a couple of additionals, as well, if you would be so kind as to entertain...
1: The center channel is dead. It never worked well in the car, anyways, as you are OFF CENTER. You can't have a true center channel, unless you put it in your steering wheel. But then, you are creating a whole MESS of additional issues.
2: Look into a good TD. Array your speakers appropriately, and revel in the rock solid center channel, produced within your head.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: getz999
Date Posted: June 27, 2008 at 8:11 PM
Well said. You guys are pretty hardcore audiophiles and I appreciate the input.

And I'm not trying to come off as cooky when I said "I more than understand Ohm's Law"

I was simply stating that I have a good understanding of the concept, and can apply it to real world scenarios.

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I drive a Saturn...commence insults




Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: June 27, 2008 at 8:31 PM
This ain't your FATHER'S car audio forum! LOL

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."




Posted By: getz999
Date Posted: June 27, 2008 at 9:07 PM
Did the word co*ky get word blocked, pwnt...

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I drive a Saturn...commence insults





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