system without head unit?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=107240
Printed Date: April 24, 2024 at 10:54 PM
Topic: system without head unit?
Posted By: joezero
Subject: system without head unit?
Date Posted: September 05, 2008 at 7:02 PM
I'm getting ready to start a ground up install and was wondering if anyone had done a system without a head unit. My plan is to use an iPod as the main audio source with a PS2 for video, gaming, and if on a rare occasion I only have a track on CD. I'm using an external EQ with multiple inputs, so I'm wondering if I can just run the sources into the EQ then out to the amps. Is there some other function of the head unit that I'm missing? I'm looking at using an iPod adapter like this one: iPod Adapter
What are your thoughts?
Replies:
Posted By: reax222
Date Posted: September 05, 2008 at 8:01 PM
I can't view the ipod adapter, but as long you have audio going to the amps and speakers connected, they you will hear it.
I think I get what your saying. Using the EQ as your audio switch, for the ipod an PS2. The PS2 might even play a music CD, but having a pair of RCAs where you can get to them easily could be nice. Then amplifying anything that used a source for the EQ.
Posted By: joezero
Date Posted: September 05, 2008 at 8:40 PM
Posted By: reax222
Date Posted: September 05, 2008 at 9:21 PM
That will probably be a champ. Plug that into the eq along with your PS2, you will probably want to use the accessory wire under the column and add a switch for your remote turn on. Then the rest will be a normal install.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 06, 2008 at 6:49 AM
And I might mention to zero that it seems as if you haven't read the forum rules very carefully. eBay links DON'T WORK, and they are filtered to NOT work when you put them in. It's in the rules you read when you signed up!
That being said, if your EQ has multiple inputs and switching capabilities, then there is no reason you can't build a system without a "proper" head unit. An amplifier doesn't care what is sending it a signal.
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: the fat kid
Date Posted: September 06, 2008 at 8:20 AM
right but if hes bypassing the head unit all together wont it have crap sound quality, idk i would think so cause its just running off the sound of the perephial. and btw if you decide to get a headunit adn want usb and ipod capabilities, get the ida x001 its beast i got a 250 western digital hard drive on mine and i hear its even better with the ipod. and they may be alot cheaper now....
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 06, 2008 at 9:44 AM
With the exception of lack of tone controls, why would you think that it would be crap sound quality? Simply BECAUSE of the lack of tone controls (stages in the gain chain) and the lack of additional stages in the signal chain, i.e. the head unit itself, the sound quality can only improve.
The x001 is a POS. It is SO limited in it's capabilities that I would personally NEVER recommend it to anybody.
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: the fat kid
Date Posted: September 06, 2008 at 2:53 PM
haemphyst wrote:
With the exception of lack of tone controls, why would you think that it would be crap sound quality? Simply BECAUSE of the lack of tone controls (stages in the gain chain) and the lack of additional stages in the signal chain, i.e. the head unit itself, the sound quality can only improve.
The x001 is a POS. It is SO limited in it's capabilities that I would personally NEVER recommend it to anybody.
no you dont have any control over the sound at all who knows if its audible at all with no volume controls. and how do you figure the xoo1 is a pos? i havent run across anything it cant do.
Posted By: fat_racing
Date Posted: September 07, 2008 at 9:19 AM
i hope ur not planning on entering an sq comp because compressed audio sounds like crap and the ipod clips at higher volumes i spent the time and money to hook up mine noew it sits in my glove box with a dead battery
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its all about application
Posted By: the fat kid
Date Posted: September 07, 2008 at 10:34 AM
compressed audio does sound like crap, depending on the source i guess, all mine are cd rips so i cant say i notice much distortion or anything, but the ones i have gotten from limewire i cant stand even listening to. and i didnt know that they had sound QUALITY competitions sounds interesting.
Posted By: reax222
Date Posted: September 07, 2008 at 8:03 PM
Unless your using a lossless codec, then you will have some compression. MP3 Lame, Ogg Vorbis, and a host of others compress the music to some degree. Codecs like Wav and AAC are low to no loss, but a CD is already limited, 44.1k samples per second, 20-20kHz, ect. So your source needs to be considered if your talking the highest fidelity. Kind of why some people say vinyl is superior to tape or CD.
Posted By: megaman
Date Posted: September 07, 2008 at 8:10 PM
As stated above, the issue has come down to the media. CD's are burned at 44.1kHz. Even if you rip them onto your computer at 98kHz or better, the source is still 44.1kHz. This is why I hated to see HDCD's go and am eagerly awaiting Super-Audio CD's to hit the mobile market. Granted they are still not the highest fidelity media, but they are better than standard CD's.
Posted By: joezero
Date Posted: September 07, 2008 at 8:16 PM
fat_racing wrote:
i hope ur not planning on entering an sq comp because compressed audio sounds like crap and the ipod clips at higher volumes i spent the time and money to hook up mine noew it sits in my glove box with a dead battery
Most of my music collection is already in a compressed format from itunes, limewire, etc., so I'm not that worried about the SQ in that respect as it's not something that I can use a better source for. When you say you experienced clipping, was that using the ipod as the volume control/gain source? I'm planning on using the EQ to control the gain as I'd like all the inputs to be volume matched so there is no difference when switching between sources.
Posted By: the fat kid
Date Posted: September 07, 2008 at 9:35 PM
idk man just give it a go, the ipod, i think will work better than the ps2 cause the ipod has another volume control, i just dont see the ps2 getting very loud, then again, ive never heard of what your doing being done. let us know if it works out.
Posted By: megaman
Date Posted: September 08, 2008 at 8:37 AM
If the EQ has level control, then I'd say go for it. Set the iPod's volume control no more than 75%. After that it distorts quite a bit. Make sure all your sound eq's and processing is off on the iPod. You'll have to set your levels compared to the PS2 because the line out of the PS2 is fixed. Basically you've taken the same approach in your vehicle as High-end home audio enthusiasts have done for years by ditching the integrated receiver, and going components. You're lacking the tuner, but considering the content on todays FM radio, you're not missing much.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 08, 2008 at 10:50 AM
the fat kid wrote:
compressed audio does sound like crap, depending on the source i guess, all mine are cd rips so i cant say i notice much distortion or anything, but the ones i have gotten from limewire i cant stand even listening to.
I can't stand listening to ANYTHING compressed. In my system, even at 320K mp3, I can hear the artifacting present in compressed files. No thank you... While I do use an iPod for a major portion of my source material, I do all of my rips as true lossless (Apple m4a), and I use the direct in on my Alpine w205.
the fat kid wrote:
and i didnt know that they had sound QUALITY ompetitions sounds interesting.
You're kidding, right? SQ comps have been around AT LEAST as long as SPL comps. I am an iASCA SQ member. ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: joezero
Date Posted: September 08, 2008 at 2:18 PM
megaman wrote:
If the EQ has level control, then I'd say go for it. Set the iPod's volume control no more than 75%. After that it distorts quite a bit. Make sure all your sound eq's and processing is off on the iPod. You'll have to set your levels compared to the PS2 because the line out of the PS2 is fixed. Basically you've taken the same approach in your vehicle as High-end home audio enthusiasts have done for years by ditching the integrated receiver, and going components. You're lacking the tuner, but considering the content on todays FM radio, you're not missing much.
I shaved my antenna years ago, so no radio for me. I agree, not missing much of anything.
As far as the volume settings, should I just set the internal limit at 75%, or is it the actual output volume percentage regardless of what the limit is?
Posted By: jazzcustom131
Date Posted: September 09, 2008 at 12:36 AM
I could have sworn the last thing I read about an iPod is that irregardless of the file format or rip file, it will give you back 192K at MAX, which is complete garbage in my book. I can't say I've ever been impressed with the sound from my iPod, more just happy to have msic so portable.
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Greed is for amateurs.
Disorder,chaos,anarchy now THAT is fun!!
Posted By: Phreak480
Date Posted: September 09, 2008 at 7:58 AM
Just throwin something out there, in the ipod adapters i've seen that utilize the dock connector, there is a fixed volume level output unlike connecting via the headphone jack where it is user variable. Just some food for thought.
Posted By: the fat kid
Date Posted: September 09, 2008 at 5:17 PM
haemphyst wrote:
the fat kid wrote:
compressed audio does sound like crap, depending on the source i guess, all mine are cd rips so i cant say i notice much distortion or anything, but the ones i have gotten from limewire i cant stand even listening to.
I can't stand listening to ANYTHING compressed. In my system, even at 320K mp3, I can hear the artifacting present in compressed files. No thank you... While I do use an iPod for a major portion of my source material, I do all of my rips as true lossless (Apple m4a), and I use the direct in on my Alpine w205. i guess my ears arent that good to notice much of my cd rips i have all of them in wma format but idk. thanks to my line of work and my system...
the fat kid wrote:
and i didnt know that they had sound QUALITY ompetitions sounds interesting.
You're kidding, right? SQ comps have been around AT LEAST as long as SPL comps. I am an iASCA SQ member.
no im not kidding, didnt say they werent around just never heard of it, how do they measure sq?
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: September 09, 2008 at 5:40 PM
While it has been argued over for quite some time, SQ is largely subjective, but there is also significant training given to iASCA SQ judges... Not as much for SPL competitors/judges. SPL is all about the mic; fixed, unwavering. Concrete, empirical measurements. SQ is all about the judge; a human.
There are definite criterion that must be adhered to in the judging aspect, just as there are rules for SPL competitions. Pink noise is used for objective qualifications of "flatness". Imaging, sound power, frequency response, tonal balance... Many subjective aspects taken into consideration, but this is the very reason it is so important that SQ judges be trained correctly - to give FAIR and impartial numbers to all competitors.
(Pretty much) ANYBODY could put eight 18s in a cutcab, feed them 1200 watts each, and make 155dB on a burp... The magic there would be the install... NOT everybody can make a car interior sound like you never want to leave it. The magic there is the presentation. Does the music sound like the artist wanted it to? How emptional is the presentation? Things like this all add up to sound quality. (Install points are counted as well in SQ.) Because of this, my opinion is that SQ competition is MUCH more difficult than SPL. (Not to minimize AT ALL what our own Jeff does...)
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
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