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second amp

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=108221
Printed Date: March 29, 2024 at 8:05 AM


Topic: second amp

Posted By: 04nata
Subject: second amp
Date Posted: October 17, 2008 at 10:16 PM

I have been running my 2 12's off a TMA 500.1 @ 2ohm and running my mids and highs from the deck (PYLE PLD51MUBT) 80x4 (probably about 20x4 watts rms) so I decided to take the PYLE PLA2240 that I had laying around and throw it in for some of the highs (front 2 speakers only 40x2 rms) it made the high end much louder and cleaner, the back 6x9's still run off the deck. Now here is my question. Was running a bit,  just to make sure everything started up and sound was coming out, then put the dash back together, started the car in the garage an listened at idle, started turning it up,,,,,sounded great.......................then my bass started going on and then off, then the highs got all distorted, reved it and took it for a drive and it sounded awesome again,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,I assume that now I have to do the BIG 3 and the HO-alternator?

The big 3 on my car looks pretty difficult, 2004 Hyundai Sonata




Replies:

Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: October 18, 2008 at 8:37 AM
sounds like for the highs your amps not setup righ t as for gains and the sub if its going when the bass hit its either you have a loose wire inside the subs box or on the amp or you might not have enough ground on your amp . what did you ground your amp to and did you ensure your connections are tightly secured

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: dragon51
Date Posted: October 18, 2008 at 11:54 AM

Sweet that is just how mine sounded right before my alt. quit that was back when I was young and dumb. Your charging system is not able to keep up with the power your pulling. Like said before check all your grounds and power wire,  then start with the big 3.

The fun part of when that happened to me was when I was heading home after shool and my alt died then a few miles later my car died too since it was running off the battery.

But the best part it died in front of a dairy farm on a warm day. Oh the smell of that crap!





Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 18, 2008 at 7:06 PM
it seems to be ok when I am driving, just died out while I was in the garage, ground is in the trunk. 8 ga ground also screwed to the metal in the trunk (that is where the shop put it in the beginning) is that not good enough?




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 20, 2008 at 9:48 PM

heck with it I just went back to running the highs off the deck, could it be the gage of the speaker wire? it is like 12 from the amp up to the head unit area and then like 18 to the speakers........guess I will have to stop pretending to know what I am doing, save my money and get local professionals to fix it. 





Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: October 20, 2008 at 10:44 PM
That doesn't sound right so you have 12 guage wire for your highs on between the amp and speakers right. Did you check your gains and crossover if you have a built in one on your amp. Also does your headunit have 1 set of preouts or two.
What I would do is preout to rca to a 4 channel amp for the interior speakers and the subs same thing. Second set of preout to rca to amp and 12 guage for the subs. On the interior you might wanna go with 14/16 guage wire but I would go with 16. On wiring it power/ground run from battery with fuse and run a distro block for the power and ground and hook the amps that way. As for the remote wire daisy chain off one wire from your HU and split it between your amps when you get to the trunk

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 11:21 AM

my deck has 2 sets of rca preouts and a subwoofer out, so I hooked the front speakers to the amp, and hooked the front out rca's from the deck to the amp, the back speakers I left running off the deck's 2 rear channel speaker output (deck has stated 80x4, so I was only using 2 of the 4.)

I ran 14 or 16ga from the PYLE 2240 highs amp, up to the front dash, where I spliced into the factory wiring that goes to the front door speakers

I have 2- 8 gage runs from the battery to the trunk where the amps are at, grounds for the amp are short and in the trunk screwed to the sheet metal of the trunk.

gain on the amp yesterday (when I got frustrated and unhooked the amp) was set at less than 1/4 turn from all the way down,

My thought was that the amps were drawing too much power and in turn shutting down or getting distorted, but it is only 600 watts, even my sorry little 110amp alternator should keep up with that, all I added was a PYLE PLA2240- 2x50 watts, it says it has a Mossfet power supply, but maybe since it is a cheap amp it draws too much, I have no idea,  any help will be appreciated

so for now it is disconnected and all the mids and highs are running off the deck again, stated 80x4 (but I think it is more like 20x4 rms, is sounds fine again and the bass amp is no longer cutting out, but I would really like to use an amp to get some cleaner louder highs.





Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 12:55 PM
Ok on the HU for the subs you run the rca to the amp and plug it into the INPUT not output. Same goes for the highs. Assuming the amp for your highs is 4 channel it should be marked left channel and right. You wire the speaker left on left and same for right make sure you get the polarties right. Are you having any problem with the power/ground wiring setup. At this point when you had both of them plugged up did you get power on both of them. Other than that make sure your remote wires are connected. Let us know if you need any further help

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 2:23 PM

Yes I do know that much, everything was hooked up correctly in theory, but after a while of playing the highs would start to sound like CRAP, distorting out like an mis-tuned radio station





Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 2:33 PM
Then its ur gains and the built incrossover. Start by turning the gain all the way to the left and tune it according to your taste. Its a forum post on how ajust your gains

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 2:43 PM

I did that, and actually had them turned up only about 1/4 turn and still after a short time they just started sounding like distortion.





Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 3:02 PM
Your speakers could be blown plug the same amp your having problems with (your highs) up to some different speakers and see if you have the same problem

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 3:03 PM
04nata wrote:

Yes I do know that much, everything was hooked up correctly in theory, but after a while of playing the highs would start to sound like CRAP, distorting out like an mis-tuned radio station


Sounds to me if you have the gains adjusted properly and it starts sounding bad after it warms up, it's simply a crappy amplifier going into overload or perhaps even thermal run away.  It's Pyle, so what do you expect?  I recommend trying a better amplifier.



-------------
Support the12volt.com




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 5:01 PM

DYon,,,, that is what my thought was, but it was sitting around so I thought I'd give it a try, what is "thermal run away"?

also it says that the max current draw is 15 amps on the amp, so I don't think it is a power supply issue with the battery or alternator, probably just crappy circutry in a crappy amp,,, ya think?

Still walkin......the speakers sound fine when connected through the deck, so I do not think they are blown





Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 5:40 PM
I was hpoing if was a wiring problem so you don't have to buy a new amp but pyle is cheap stuff if you want something okay but not pricey try poineer, or clarion there stuff is okay. Best of luck to you

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: October 21, 2008 at 5:42 PM
Thermal run-away is when a transistor gets too hot and goes into a nearly uncontrolled conduction state.  It basically operates like it has positive feedback, operating at max output (and in an audio system, max distortion) as soon as it begins conducting and eventually it simply fails.  It happens sometimes with cheaper components or poorly designed systems, or sometimes simply due to age.

-------------
Support the12volt.com




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 22, 2008 at 7:06 AM

thanx, I will get a better amp





Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 22, 2008 at 12:27 PM

Here is what I am going to do, please advise, I have the

2004 Sonata

110amp alt

1 battery w, 2 each 8 gauge runs to the trunk with 50amp fuses

TMA 500.1 (4 each 15amp fuses) running 2 subs at 2 ohm (this is existing and have had no problems)

TMA 320.4 (2ea 30amp fuses) running 2each Pioneer 6 1/2" (4way) and 2 each Pioneer 6x9 (5 way), these are 4 ohm speakers and the amp puts out 60x4 at 4 ohms

so my total power will be only 740 watts

Can I get away without doing the big 3 right now? (it appears beyond MY doing)

Do I need to upgrade to 1 each 2 gauge with a dist block or 2 each 4 gauge runs or will the 2 8 gauge be sufficient?





Posted By: lnhiv
Date Posted: October 22, 2008 at 12:38 PM
Just do a single 4ga run with a distro block. No you don't need to do the big 3, though on any system it doesn't hurt to do it anyways.

-------------
2003 Chevy Cavalier coupe




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: October 22, 2008 at 12:52 PM
really, just one 4 gauge and a dist block will work?  what size fuse at the battery?




Posted By: benzo33
Date Posted: October 23, 2008 at 11:37 PM
You would need at least the current draw from both amps, 120 amps. Just run 4 to 8 gauge.

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2001 Corolla S and 2005 Neon SRT 4 ACR.




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: November 04, 2008 at 2:44 PM

I have to find an amp to replace my PTLE (of crap). I want a 4 channel that will give good sound and low draw for at least 50x4 rms, I am looking at this

Blaupunkt THA-475 PnP 4/3/2 Channel 720W Amplifier

but I only have about 150-200 to spend, please give input





Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: November 04, 2008 at 4:22 PM
looks like I will be going with the TMA T320.4 brand new for $125 which includes a 4 gauge wiring kit also,,,,not a bad deal...




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: November 11, 2008 at 2:47 PM

OK here is what I got

4 gauge running from the battery to the trunk with an 80amp circut breaker

to a stinger dist block (3way)

4 gauge power and ground running to the TMA-T500.1 at 2 ohm 500watts (no fuse, only 4 inches long)

8 gauge power and ground running to the TMA-T320.4 60x4 watts running 4 channels at 4 ohm

does this sound like it will be OK? the only reason I went with the 8 gauge is that I ran out of 4 gauge and connectors, figured 8 would be ok for that amp.

my alternator is only 95amp, so I am guessing that until I get a bigger alternator then I will not be able to run the music load with the headlights on,,,,,,,,correct? I do not know what the current draw is for both amps, if you add up all the fuses on the amps it is 120, I now assume that will blow the 80amp circut breaker?

Finally,,,,,,,,,,,,,,where should I go to get the BIG 3 upgraded if I do not feel comfortable doing it myself?   but if I do it myself, do I just use the same type of wire that I used to wire back to the amps,,,,(Stinger,4 gauge) and then use the loom tubing to protect it from heat?





Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: November 11, 2008 at 8:46 PM
anybody?




Posted By: boogeyman
Date Posted: November 12, 2008 at 8:00 AM
  I would use 4 AWG at least for the big three .If you dont feel comfortable doing the big 3 yourself take it to a reputable audio shop and they can do it....




Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: November 12, 2008 at 9:47 AM

does this sound like it will be OK?

if you add up all the fuses on the amps it is 120, I now assume that will blow the 80amp circut breaker?

do I just use the same type of wire that I used to wire back to the amps,,,,(Stinger,4 gauge) and then use the loom tubing to protect it from heat?





Posted By: 04nata
Date Posted: November 16, 2008 at 8:43 PM

thanx so much for answering my questions..........posted_image

anyway, I have achieved sound uphoria............

here is my set up and it sounds twice as good as it did, btw I bought the "Little Mermaid" CD to test it with and it is simply amazing

Stinger 4ga from battery back to dist block

Stinger 4g to bass amp

Sting 8ga to mids amp

HU:  PYLE PLD51MUBT

Mids/Highs:

TMA 6.5 in. / 160 mm Component Systems: Injection molded, anodized polypropylene woofer with butyl rubber surround. 1.0 in. / 25 mm ferrofluid cooled, silk-dome tweeter with neodymium magnet. Tweeters are custome mounted INSIDE the vents....Outboard crossover network.

2 each Pioneer 5 way 6x9's in rear deck

All Ran by: 

TMA T260.4  60W x 4 @ 4 ohm

Bass:

2each 12" Extreme series by Directed Audio 4ohm ran in parralel to 2ohm

Ran by:  TMA  T2-500.1-------- 500W x 1 @ 2 ohm

Custom ported box rear facing in the trunk.

Tuned and set

sounds amazing






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