need some sound advice to pound
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=111457
Printed Date: April 16, 2024 at 6:06 AM
Topic: need some sound advice to pound
Posted By: tigger76
Subject: need some sound advice to pound
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 12:30 AM
Hello guys, I got my 4 12's put in my burban and have my 2 amps running them. Ya it sounds nice but I need more! I currently have 4 12" mtx 7512-44's, and the amp is the mtx 81001. What is something I could get that will really pound? I want to bearlly be able to sit in the burban and have it pound. Any thoughts would be helpfull. I do not want to wall it off though. Thanks everyone. Phillip
Replies:
Posted By: kureti
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 4:59 AM
what is the enclosure that your are using?. Try the vented enclosure for max dB.
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K. Venugopal Rao
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 9:04 AM
I have them in porter boxes already
Posted By: jvillefinest
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 9:35 AM
how is the box built? how thick? reinforced? which way are the subs/port facing? You could try building a more efficent box and possibly get 3 or more db out of it. or go the $ route. get more subs and more amps! ------------- 2007 Acura TSX
SQ setup in the works
Posted By: k.gren
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 10:21 AM
If you want something to pound and have the money to spend, I would go with 2 Orion HCCA 15.4 subs. Bridge them to one ohm and find an amp to power them, or get 2 Orion HCCA 15.2 subs and get an amp to power each.
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~K.Gren~
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 11:52 AM
you probably need to design a better box. since your bow is ported and you have so many subs in that same box they probably interact with each other and you might be getting some cancellation. ported box setups can be really tricky especially as you start adding more and more woofers
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Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 11:57 AM
What kind of money are you looking to spend and are you going to keep the 2nd row seating? ------------- 
Posted By: lowroller94
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 2:00 PM
Lots of $$$$$... That's what you need... My dream system is in the 10's of thousands... :(
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DO IT MYSELF INC.
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 3:11 PM
you dont necessarily need to throw tons of money into a system for it to be really loud. sometimes less is more you just have to know what you are doing and do some research before you go off and start buying everything that's shinny but not really what you need.
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Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 5:48 PM
what kind of boxes (plural???) are they in now??
If they are in crappy prefab enclosures you can get louder with a new enclosure.
For the noobs to know...its about 80-90% enclosure. Not all about the subwoofer.
I'm sure your current subs have much potential with a new enclosure
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Custom Enclosure Design
Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 6:13 PM
aznboi3644 wrote:
what kind of boxes (plural???) are they in now??
If they are in crappy prefab enclosures you can get louder with a new enclosure.
For the noobs to know...its about 80-90% enclosure. Not all about the subwoofer.
I'm sure your current subs have much potential with a new enclosure
+1 The box is about the most critical part. I think from your last thread you are running prefab boxes. 1 per pair correct? Just by building an encloser with you vehical in mind and built to the specific specs of your sub you should see a very good increase in output and quality of sound. If that is still not enough for you. Get subs that will handle the output of your amp so that you can get the most out of the power you have availible. But again even switching subs the box needs to be designed for the subs and vehical to get the most out of it. -------------
Posted By: kureti
Date Posted: February 10, 2009 at 10:05 PM
try getting some advice from Mr. David Navone.
www.davidnavone.com he is a fantastic guy I have come across. i am sure he will help u out to get the Max bass. I have read a lot of his articles he is brilliant.
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K. Venugopal Rao
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 11, 2009 at 1:38 AM
Well guys alot of questions and some great advice. I will try my best to answer the questions and add anything that I may have left out. The boxes are actually 2 prefabed boxes bolted together. The kind you would buy at the local stereo shop. Not the best I know but that brings me to my first dilema, all the local shops wanted no less than $1000 to build me a box. To me that is crazy talk! My amps say that they will put out 1500 watts at 1 ohm. Should I be looking for a sub that can handle about 1000 watts? Maybe the mtx 9500? I know that I don't need to throw a bunch money at this to get what I want it to do, I just need to put my money in the right areas. If this was my dream setup I would wall it off and go deaf I'm a matter of days:) If I am to upgrade to bigger subs it won't be until about 6 months down the road. So in the mean time what can I do? Get a bigger box? To be honest when I was a young buck with my stereo I just thought a box was a box and you either had a porter or non porter. But I know that the can be tuned:) if anyone knows of someone that is able to make me a box in my area, please let me know. I live in Portland, Oregon. To answer some other questions, that 3rd row seating went the hour I got the truck. That is prime speaker space. I cannot say thank you enough for all the support in helping me get my goal done the right way. Looking forward to what you guys have to say. Philip
Posted By: jvillefinest
Date Posted: February 11, 2009 at 8:35 AM
build the box yourself. a couple of sheets of wood and a weekend and you will save...ummm $800 atleast! im sure someone can give you dimensions to a nice box that will get WAYYY more out of your setup then two separate prefab boxes. ------------- 2007 Acura TSX
SQ setup in the works
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 12, 2009 at 10:04 PM
O.k., I have a few more questions. If I was to buy a better sub ( like a mtx 9500?) which can handle more power does that make it louder since it can handle more rms?
So I am no good at the box designing thing. Can someone who knows about the design of boxes please help me find a box that I can build? The space I have to work with is these measurements I have to work with.
20 inches tall
48 inches wide
36 inches deep
I really want to pound!
Well guys thank you for all your help. I appreciate everything you guys help me with.
Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 12, 2009 at 10:58 PM
Yes you will gain DBs with more power and yes the 9500 would be a good choice for the power you have available. Just remeber that the box is where the DBs come from. WIth a crappy box you can lose a lot of DB. You have plenty of space for the 9500 for airspace ported. I have no problems giving you some specs to build from. Just let me know. -------------
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 12, 2009 at 11:47 PM
Thanks j.reed for the quick reply. So maybe I miss led you, 1 9500 will not cut it for me  . I want the ability to make ears bleed. Lol. I was thinking more along the lines of atleast 3 or 4. My idea is this, 4 9500's. The voice coils and speakers wired in parallel of 2 speakers, which drops them down to a 1 ohm load. Which I am alright with but like I said I want this to kill the ears. My next option is to wire all 4 and wire the voice coils in series and the speakers in parallel, and that put the load down to 2 ohm's which is what would be needed to strap the amps together and let the neighbors suffer. Which is recommended? So assuming that I will get 3 or 4 of the 9500's, what would be a good amp to run all them or is the amps that I have enough to run them and achieve what I am after? Also I have a little more heighth (about 5 inches) and about the same in depth if needed, but would really like to keep the dimensions that I already have. Sorry for all the newb questions guy. I do thank you all for your help and thoughts. Phillip
Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 13, 2009 at 8:35 AM
I knew what you ment and i figured airspace for 4 9500s it only takes 8 cubic foot for the 4 of the 9500s ported. The measurements you gave would give you 17 cubic foot availible minus port, driver displacement and any bracing. So that is more than enough to work with for those subs as i said. I believe when i looked up the sub specs they are 1000 rms a piece correct? If so you can run up to 4000 watts rms to them. You will have a lot of cone area and a good amount of Xmas. Even with say 2000 RMS they should be plenty loud. -------------
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: February 13, 2009 at 11:11 AM
if you want your ears to bleed, get 3 15inch mtx 9500s. buy them in the dual 2 ohm version so you can get the 3 subs as close to 1 ohm total as possible. you have plenty of space for 3 of them but 4 would be pushing it. build the box with the subs facing towards the back and the port facing up since you will be using all of the front width for the 15s. when it's done you should have about 3 cubic feet of air space for each.
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Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 13, 2009 at 12:09 PM
soundnsecurity wrote:
if you want your ears to bleed, get 3 15inch mtx 9500s. buy them in the dual 2 ohm version so you can get the 3 subs as close to 1 ohm total as possible. you have plenty of space for 3 of them but 4 would be pushing it. build the box with the subs facing towards the back and the port facing up since you will be using all of the front width for the 15s. when it's done you should have about 3 cubic feet of air space for each.
Sound is right the 15s should be louder than the 4 12s if designed right for the vehical. It will give you more Square inch of cone area. -------------
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 13, 2009 at 2:35 PM
You guys are good at getting more questions from me. I thought that 4 12's had more cone volume than 3 15's? (48 vs 45)? Some other questions are if I run the 3 15's and wire them down to a 1.34 ohm load, does it effect the amp since strapping it needs to be at a 2 ohm load? The 15's are spendy, $477.00 vs the 12's at $322. I dont have a stereo shop that carries the mtx line now, so I will have to buy them on ebay or online somewhere. I have a limited budget for this. I estimate about $2000. total plus what ever I am able to sell the 12's I have for.
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: February 13, 2009 at 3:03 PM
how about 2 18's? i just like big woofers  2 18's with dual 4 ohm coils will put you right at 1 ohm total and you can give each a lot of airspace. and put like a 1500W amp on each or a single 3000W amp for both. and should still give you all of the lovely bass you desire. -------------
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 13, 2009 at 4:32 PM
Hi guys. I love big speakers but I have to have alot of them and since having a baby is in the mix I am on a very limited budget. For me, 2 18's for me would just leave me wanting for more. Is there a sound (bass) difference in that goes with the size difference between speakers? Like 10 vs 12 vs 15?I think I have my heart set on either 12's or 15's. I really want whatever will let me win a few db drags in my area, (not all, but a few). I know that this is going to be a personal preferance question, but is there a sub that I would like better for what I want in my price range? Thank you guys
Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: February 13, 2009 at 5:05 PM
tigger76 wrote:
You guys are good at getting more questions from me. I thought that 4 12's had more cone volume than 3 15's? (48 vs 45)? Some other questions are if I run the 3 15's and wire them down to a 1.34 ohm load, does it effect the amp since strapping it needs to be at a 2 ohm load? The 15's are spendy, $477.00 vs the 12's at $322. I dont have a stereo shop that carries the mtx line now, so I will have to buy them on ebay or online somewhere. I have a limited budget for this. I estimate about $2000. total plus what ever I am able to sell the 12's I have for.
You are not talking about cone area here...you are talking about cone diameter.
Four 12's do not come out to 48 SQUARE INCHES...area is TWO DIMENSIONAL...area not length.
Also I can design you a new enclosure that will pound...there is no need to spend money on overpriced MTX equipment...MTX sucks anyways.
Keep your subs you have now and build a new enclosure...we can make it rain. ------------- Custom Enclosure Design
Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 14, 2009 at 12:10 AM
aznboi3644 wrote:
tigger76 wrote:
You guys are good at getting more questions from me. I thought that 4 12's had more cone volume than 3 15's? (48 vs 45)? Some other questions are if I run the 3 15's and wire them down to a 1.34 ohm load, does it effect the amp since strapping it needs to be at a 2 ohm load? The 15's are spendy, $477.00 vs the 12's at $322. I dont have a stereo shop that carries the mtx line now, so I will have to buy them on ebay or online somewhere. I have a limited budget for this. I estimate about $2000. total plus what ever I am able to sell the 12's I have for.
You are not talking about cone area here...you are talking about cone diameter.
Four 12's do not come out to 48 SQUARE INCHES...area is TWO DIMENSIONAL...area not length.
Also I can design you a new enclosure that will pound...there is no need to spend money on overpriced MTX equipment...MTX sucks anyways.
Keep your subs you have now and build a new enclosure...we can make it rain.
maybe you should read the rest of the thread first. Then you would know he is already running MTX subs. 7500 series and is wanting more output. Yes box alone will get him more output over the 2 prefab boxes he is using now. But if he is serious about getting much louder it is time to get the true power out of his amps as well as using subs that can handle the full output power of his amps along with a perfect box. -------------
Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: February 14, 2009 at 1:33 AM
I know he has two 7500's....I never said I didn't know that.
I'm saying a new enclosure will sound better and be louder...if you don't believe this than you don't really know much about enclosure design.
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Custom Enclosure Design
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 14, 2009 at 3:43 AM
Hi guys, this is all so fustrating for me right now. Aznboi3644, I have 4 of the 7500's. I will need to build a new box soon cause the sound I have now is really embararissing(that is spelled wrong). I can honestly say that if this system was in my caprice, I would have a headache every night. I know that they are 2 very different cars. It is fustrating because I have never had a factory stereo in any car of mine for longer than 3 days and I thought I knew what I was doing and everything I seemed to know was wrong, and I don't mean alittle wrong, I talking about 180 degrees wrong. I am 32 years old and I thought I had this stuff down. Ya know, I thought you take out the old stereo, put in the new one, run your wires down the side, put the subs in the box that you can have conviently there and hook up the amp and presto, you had sound. I knew that there were svc's and dvc's, what they did?, who knows? This makes me want to pull every stereo I have in my cars and redo everyone.  I am really messed up mentally right now. The reason I have been into spl and loud bass cars was I went to a db drag when I was a senior i high school. I had a 70 vw rabbbit that hauled ars. It had 2 Fosgate 12's and a fosgate amp. I thought I was king poop. I entered it thinking this will be fun. It was not. I sucked. a bmw with 3 10's blew me so far out of the water I felt like I ended up in oklahoma city.!. Now I am sure that the kid had more money than his mom or dad knew what to do with. After that ars wooping, I walked around the show and saw a Rockford Fosgate suburban sitting there and got to sit inside of it. It was walled off, and had 8 18's specially made for this suburban (I only say this cause I have never seen a 18 by rf, I pretty sure I am wrong). Let me tell you that I was like a kid at christmas after that. So like I said, some umpteen years later here I am finding these forums and man, I didn't know doodie. Like I said, I dont want to be the baddest person on the block, I just want to be the one with the baddest system. Aznboi3644, could you please send me a enclosure design? I feel stupid for getting the MTX TA81001 and not being able to get all the power from them that I can. Does that makes sense? Man, it is 1:44 in the morning. See this is how bent out of shape I am in. I get maybe 6 hours of sleep since I have a new baby and I spend 3 of it on these forums reading as much as I can. Its a love-hate relationship, I know. Thank you to all you guys for reading my ramblings. Thank you for all your guys help also.
Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 14, 2009 at 11:44 AM
aznboi3644 wrote:
I know he has two 7500's....I never said I didn't know that.
I'm saying a new enclosure will sound better and be louder...if you don't believe this than you don't really know much about enclosure design.
Again if you read the thread you would know i have already said that myself. -------------
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 15, 2009 at 1:49 AM
Well guys I think that I have decided on doing 4 of the MTX 15" 9500's. I am pretty sure that I will also get them in 4 ohm that way I can decide if I want to wire them down to 2 ohms with 2 strapped amps or just do 2 of them wired down to a 1 ohm load per amp. I will be getting new amps also but have yet to figure out which one or ones? Ran the idea through the wife, she said if I do then I will have to sleep on the couch for a week. Oh well, the price I have to pay. 
Does anyone have any suggestings on amps, preferablly mtx? If anyone has a bettere idea please let me know. Thank you guys for all your help. Phillip
Posted By: cobrakilla27
Date Posted: February 15, 2009 at 1:01 PM
dude you know big of a box you will need for 4 15 9500s. youre gonna need a 10 cubic foot box with atleast 5000 to 6000 watts to power those 4 sub. If you are going for loud and cheap you are looking at this the wrong way. I have 1 12 inch digital design 9512 that i take to competitions. I have 2 mtx 8101 amps hooked up to it pushin around 3300 watts rms to it and im hitting around 150.4db in db drags easily. The 2 things you need in systems are power and air space. I would just go with one power sub from digital design and get a custom box built for it and put a lot of power to it through mtx amps of stetsom amps if you can find any. If you do everything right and install it yourself you can get a loud ass comp set up for under 2000 bucks
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 16, 2009 at 1:03 AM
Does anyone know anyting about digital design? I cannot find a dealer to save my life. I did go to the web site, you have to break in these subs for a long time it says? What is that about? I was hoping to find something around here that if something should happen then I would be able to get some advice or exchange. Thanks guys. Phillip
Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: February 16, 2009 at 12:14 PM
DD is very good...high quality equipment.
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Custom Enclosure Design
Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 16, 2009 at 12:33 PM
tigger76 wrote:
Does anyone know anyting about digital design? I cannot find a dealer to save my life. I did go to the web site, you have to break in these subs for a long time it says? What is that about? I was hoping to find something around here that if something should happen then I would be able to get some advice or exchange. Thanks guys. Phillip
DD is very good for ouput. The break in time is just as it says. Kinda like when you have a new engine. Everything is tight and needs to loosen a bit to get the most out of the subwoofer. What do you have available at local shops? -------------
Posted By: ianedward1
Date Posted: February 16, 2009 at 9:46 PM
ok im going to run you some options that will help you pound harder without pounding your wallet. Digital Designs are very nice woofers (coming with a VERY big price tag for the larger models). My choices for subwoofer if you are really wanting to bust some windows and blow some ear drums would be.... 1. Fi BTL 15" - $384 (2000W RMS) 2. MA Audio EHO152 - $499 (5000W RMS) 3. Audiobahn AWES15P - $299 (1300W RMS) 4. Soundstream SPLX-154 - $349 (1000W RMS) 5. Hifonics Olympus OLM2415 - $369 (2400W RMS) [Prices courtesy of online] A setup using any of these subs will basically shake all the bolts in your vehicle loose. If you were to go with the MA Audio EHO i would probably only say to go with two because of their massive power capabilities. As far as powering these subs goes you will definitely need more power than you have. You will also need a much better box build. You would probably be fine with going with only 2 of any of these subs but its your choice. For a box design you should visit pwkdesigns.com. The guy there is a genius at box designs and you can buy a set of blueprints custom made for your application. The kind power you will need for this system will probably require an upgrade of your car's electrical system (larger altenator and more batteries). ------------- Head Unit - Pioneer P80MP
Sub - 1 10" Soundstream T-5
Amps - 1 Kicker KX400.1, 1 Legacy crap 2 channel
Door Speakers - Audiobahn 600V Components
Box - Custom by Southern Sound in Statesboro, GA
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: February 16, 2009 at 10:08 PM
Fi BTL is the best sub in that line up.
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Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: February 16, 2009 at 11:14 PM
soundnsecurity wrote:
Fi BTL is the best sub in that line up.
i would have to agree and the Fi BTL you can get fully loaded which will handle 5000rms -------------
Posted By: tigger76
Date Posted: February 16, 2009 at 11:23 PM
Hello guys. The stereo shops in my area are as follows. Car Stereo City Stereo King Outragous Audio Car Toys Not really much to choose from. I went online to look at some of the dd's. I could never find more than 1? I have 6 cases of dynamat, 3 kinetik hc2400 battery's and 2 brand new special wound alts with another alt bracket for the second alt. I have 0 guage for all my big 3 already done. I don't know anything about what bracket I would be in if I go to a db compition? I cannot find one that is coming out my way anytime soon? I would really like to have either 6 or 4 subs. I know that for most of you that would be overkill. I will be trearing apart the suburban in the next coming weeks and will be sure to take lots of pics for the forum. I am going to put off getting the subs and amps until everyone tells me their opinions. I appreciate everything guys. Thank you. Phillip
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: February 17, 2009 at 8:46 AM
for competitions it depends on how they set it up. some classify you by your amps' rated power at 4 ohms, some classify you by cone area, and then they go even farther by looking if you have a wall or not. it all depends on their rules. sometimes they get very specific and sometimes they couldn't care less what modifications you have. i did a competition once where they made me run in the wall category because my box sticks about a 1/2 inch past the bottom of my rear window (i still took first )
you wont find DD subs online because they dont sell online. you need to find a dealer or order over the phone. you might get lucky and find one on ebay but it will be used and wont have any kind of warranty.
as for subs suggestions here are mine in no particular order:
Fi BTL
MTX 9500
RE SX or XXX
Soundslpinter RL
Adire brahma(sp?)
DD 9500
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Posted By: cobrakilla27
Date Posted: February 17, 2009 at 12:06 PM
Why does everyone think that you get power in numbers of subs?!!! I took my 1 dd9512 to a redline comp and smoked 4 15 alpine type r's that had 4000 watts goin to them. If you really wanna go loud and win some comps heres my dream system.......... 2 dd9512s in a 6 cubic foot box port tuned to 40hz and a stetsom 7kd amp which will push about 3500 watts rms to each sub. If you do everythin right you will probably be able to hit over 160db. O and just to let you know the world record is currently being held by 1 sub. 1 18 inch dd sub with 4 stetsom 7kd amps goin to it hit 180.6db
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: February 17, 2009 at 12:19 PM
cobrakilla27 wrote:
Why does everyone think that you get power in numbers of subs?!!! I took my 1 dd9512 to a redline comp and smoked 4 15 alpine type r's that had 4000 watts goin to them. If you really wanna go loud and win some comps heres my dream system..........
2 dd9512s in a 6 cubic foot box port tuned to 40hz
and a stetsom 7kd amp which will push about 3500 watts rms to each sub. If you do everythin right you will probably be able to hit over 160db.
O and just to let you know the world record is currently being held by 1 sub. 1 18 inch dd sub with 4 stetsom 7kd amps goin to it hit 180.6db
i bet that record was set in a relatively small airspace that was walled off and sealed and probably was playing somewhere around a 50hz tone too. although i agree with you that sometimes less is more, this man still has to drive his car. -------------
Posted By: aznboi3644
Date Posted: February 18, 2009 at 3:30 PM
cobrakilla27 wrote:
Why does everyone think that you get power in numbers of subs?!!! I took my 1 dd9512 to a redline comp and smoked 4 15 alpine type r's that had 4000 watts goin to them. If you really wanna go loud and win some comps heres my dream system..........
2 dd9512s in a 6 cubic foot box port tuned to 40hz
and a stetsom 7kd amp which will push about 3500 watts rms to each sub. If you do everythin right you will probably be able to hit over 160db.
O and just to let you know the world record is currently being held by 1 sub. 1 18 inch dd sub with 4 stetsom 7kd amps goin to it hit 180.6db
hit over 160???? Yeah right not in a daily driver without extensive dampening and bracing.
150's would be a closer goal. ------------- Custom Enclosure Design
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: February 18, 2009 at 4:24 PM
not saying it cant happen, but the only car ive ever seen break 160 was a honda crx that was completely rhino lined on the outside. i didn't get a good look at what he was running but it was something like 1 or 2 15s. it was rediculous. but yeah it is really hard to break 160 in a normal car without some bracing and modification because after a certain point you just lose too much sound energy from flexing panels, especially the roof and glass.
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