watts for the buck

I've just ordere dthe Hifonics BXI-2408D. so approx 2400wrms (in perfect conditions) and only 329.99 including ship. I had to give up the T10001bd  for 275$ for that Hifonics Deal. The reason I'm going with such a High wattage amp when i only need 1400watts is because of Future upgrades. I am GUARANTEED to up grade subwoofers in the future (ive already sniffed out the upgraded subs). So why buy the BXI-1610D for 250$ if i can buy my one amp thats gonna last me (in perfect conditions) years to come, as long as I dont need much more wattage. 

Also "Efficiency"... I THINK i know how it works. I'm just going to give you a very simplified version of how I understand it. if a amp is 50% efficient then it pretty much need 2-watts (Current*Voltage=Power) from your electrical system inorder to put out 1-watt to your speakers. and the rest is released as heat. does this have any truth to it?

And does a amp draw more current @1ohm then @2ohm or 4ohm if around the same wattage? so say 100wrms (approx) would a amp draw the same amount of current at all of those ohm ratings, or does it become Least or More Efficient as the ohms go down?

Thanks guys. sry so many questions

rfhvhtoo wrote:

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 The reason I'm going with such a High wattage amp when i only need 1400watts is because of Future upgrades.

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The amp has to be functional to benefit you and the future upgrades.

aznboi3644 wrote:

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Efficiency drops as the load on the amplifier drops.

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aznboi3644 wrote:

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Amplifiers are much more efficient at 4 ohms than at 1 ohm.

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Class D amplifiers are much more efficient than older class a/b amplifiers.  Class D amps are generally 80 to 90% efficient.  That is why they do not heat up as much as some older amps. Yes, if your amp were 50% efficient, it would take 2 watts of input to get 1 watt to your speakers.

You probably did make a power upgrade.  But when you factor in the life expectancy of the 2 amps involved, not such an upgrade.

I'm sorry I forgot i was going to be defending myself on this one... well

haemphyst - actually no i just wanted to try out something new. why? Because I WANT TO. and I thought you would be one of the more professional audio people who know that its up to MY ear what I want in MY car no matter what it is... Oh yeah and I want to try Active audio Mono, Lanzar Opti Mono, Crunch Ground Pounder and every mono amp in the world too so I can have a personal opinion on EVERTHING. Do you hate me yet? I personally love rockford I had 2 T1 in a ported box on the T10001bd, Rockford RCA's Dual Twisted... But I sold the T1's and got 4 tens for 100$ less (hmm funny sounds like im trying to SAVE money) and I want the Hifonics on them because I like trying new things and not have the same thing as everyone else at shows. And no I just work 2 jobs 1. for my bills and (Expensive for NO reason) University of Florida tuition and 2nd for my love for this D**n music. And I dont have the time to go to many car shows so i dont know what the best sounding amps in the world are. And im not even saying you do, because i dont assume your financial status from what I read on your forum. and how could say i have all this money and you want me to have Rockford and thats about the second most expensive company out there. but thanks for correcting the ohm question.

Forbidden - I'm Going to try my Swapmeet amp. So i know that it is exactly that and that it is the worst possible piece of S*** amp I could Have possibly gotten. And im gonna make TRY an make that Piece of S*** sound like GLORY. Dont you love when you hear a clear sound audio system and look inside and see Lanzar? and you're like WHAT?! i'd rather get what isn't popular... who wants to have the same subs as the other 30 cars in the lot?... you do... I dont... and thats fine because I dont care... I know ROCK is a beast and head up with power and class would beat almost any sub or amp. But I dont care what they CAN do. I more into what small companies CANT do and how some one like me can make those "Swapmeet" S***'s sound good TO ME. But thanks (its just a personal challenge) 

I am an idiot - well That is something I'll be sure to remember. I hope its going to stay functional too and Thanks for actually answering a question.

aznboi - Thanks for your input too man

Oh And my T10001bd is broken. But i didnt plan on defending my life about this so i didnt mention that.

And I have 4 Dual 2ohm subs. Can I connect two subs to eachother parallel to get a 1ohm load and then connect the 1ohm LOADS (2 10" subs) to eachother in SERIES to make a total 2ohm load onto the amp?  is that feasible?

dragon51 wrote:

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I always find it funny when someone asks a question and then gets rid of good equipment to buy a lesser products because there numbers look better. Should of just got Pyle and called it day. Hell all of there numbers look really good too!

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I'd def go with Pyramid on that one! Have you seen the Max wattage on their Tweets?!

haemphyst wrote:

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aznboi3644 wrote:

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Efficiency drops as the load on the amplifier drops.

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Efficiency drops as the load INCREASES, not decreases...

aznboi3644 wrote:

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Amplifiers are much more efficient at 4 ohms than at 1 ohm.

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1 ohm is a greater LOAD than 4 ohms.

I know you knew this...

Regardless... Directed to the OP, the amp you have "traded up to" was not a trade up. You threw good money after bad... Seriously. Another perfect example of an unsuspecting audio buyer being duped COMPLETELY by inflated and FALSE power numbers. Good luck with your very bad decision. Now, since you seem to be independently wealthy, how about throwing a few hundred my way, so I can make my house payment?

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rfhvhtoo wrote:

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haemphyst - actually no i just wanted to try out something new. why? Because I WANT TO. and I thought you would be one of the more professional audio people who know that its up to MY ear what I want in MY car no matter what it is...

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rfhvhtoo wrote:

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Oh yeah and I want to try Active audio Mono, Lanzar Opti Mono, Crunch Ground Pounder and every mono amp in the world too so I can have a personal opinion on EVERTHING. Do you hate me yet?

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rfhvhtoo wrote:

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I personally love rockford I had 2 T1 in a ported box on the T10001bd, Rockford RCA's Dual Twisted... But I sold the T1's and got 4 tens for 100$ less (hmm funny sounds like im trying to SAVE money) and I want the Hifonics on them because I like trying new things and not have the same thing as everyone else at shows.

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rfhvhtoo wrote:

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And no I just work 2 jobs 1. for my bills and (Expensive for NO reason) University of Florida tuition and 2nd for my love for this D**n music. And I dont have the time to go to many car shows so i dont know what the best sounding amps in the world are. And im not even saying you do, because i dont assume your financial status from what I read on your forum. and how could say i have all this money and you want me to have Rockford and thats about the second most expensive company out there. but thanks for correcting the ohm question.

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rfhvhtoo wrote:

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I'm sorry I forgot i was going to be defending myself on this one... well

Forbidden - I'm Going to try my Swapmeet amp. So i know that it is exactly that and that it is the worst possible piece of S*** amp I could Have possibly gotten. And im gonna make TRY an make that Piece of S*** sound like GLORY. Dont you love when you hear a clear sound audio system and look inside and see Lanzar? and you're like WHAT?! i'd rather get what isn't popular... who wants to have the same subs as the other 30 cars in the lot?... you do... I dont... and thats fine because I dont care... I know ROCK is a beast and head up with power and class would beat almost any sub or amp. But I dont care what they CAN do. I more into what small companies CANT do and how some one like me can make those "Swapmeet" S***'s sound good TO ME. But thanks (its just a personal challenge) 

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"And that swapmeet amp you just bought will never make the power it claims to make but the Rockford will always make far more than it was rated. You just made one of the worst decisions you could possibly have made. If you wanted a high wattage amp, take a felt pen and mark 5000w on your Rockford as that is what all those swapmeet amps you listed have certainly done."

Exactly where did I call it a POS? Or are you interpreting things wrong (like the wattage claims of these amps for example) Good for you to try and make it sound like GLORY, when it starts clipping all over the map and takes out speakers as you are trying to get the power it is "claiming to make" out of it, now you are going to be replacing speakers as well. In my 22 years in this industry I have not seen one, let me make that clear to you, NOT ONE higher end install completed with flea market equipment. NOTICE the key word of EQUIPMENT, it takes more than flea market amps to get good sound.

If you want good sound, yes it can be done with flea market amplification, but you had better have good speakers and a solid source. If you want to experiment, great, go ahead. I have 22 years of experimentation behind me to put more than ample judgement forth as solid advice. Haemburgler has similar years of experience as well. You asked for advice, you got advice and it was not what you wanted to hear and then chose to whine about it. 

Personally, I would get the Rockford amp repaired as well.  I and others on this site know that we can make a swapmeet amp perform just fine as well, within it's limitations. Those limitations are going to be the difference between what  you call Glory and we call a true listening experience.

omg yeah that Subwoofer question was horrible... I drew it out and its just impossible.. And ok guys I understand I didnt make the best decision. But Im gonna live with it. Im a Pro-Rockford Fan. I dont have Pro Rockford Money. So now I know not to get into a conversation about rockford fosgate on here if im not buying it  Thanks though and I hope to see your cars on youtube because thats about as close as im going to get to a carshow.

and Haemphyst yeah i know I could have added alot more detail to the story I just didnt think i was going to get dug into by so many. I was just letting the thread know what my decision was and I got RIPPED. And i also could have added that i am a person of adventure and wanting to try out many more brands than I can afford. More for just the experiance with different companies because i love having personal opinions about this music. I know rockford is a beast. I had it 6 months and It was amazing. Now that it has a minor capacitor problem that I myself cannot fix, but he told me how minor it was and i mean the amp is literally 6 months old born December 17th, 2008. and pushing out a solid 1200wrms @1ohm (in perfect conditions). So it was either my broken amp he could fix or 450$ from the local shop. so it was still somewhat of a deal for him and me.

So i know according to many I have made a bad decision but according to my small gain of experiance it's worth it. If im not satisfied then ill probably sell it and go for a different brand (after a couple paychecks). or maybe even back to rock (depending on the prices by then...they never let up).

I could have sworn Hifonics was a decent company though. IIs there any company matching up to Rockford? Thats not as expensive? 

No I wasnt going to be charged for getting fixed. But i was going to have to pay for shipping 25$... and it was going to be my second time sending it out. first time took 2 months to recieve my amp back.they say it was because of "Easter" i dont know but i dont want to experiance that ever again. But I sold it to a friend who is going to fix it for himself. He has a old one that is broken and not uder warranty. So he is going to replace the part in mine. and thats why I sold it to him for 275$ because he already knew what and how to fix it. and i dont want my friends experimenting on MY amp so I sold it to him so he could Experiment on HIS amp. but if he wants to use the warranty he can too.

and of course hopefully if I can have a main car and a experimental car oneday. My driving vehicle will be always all Rockford. Like I said im all for Rockford, but in times like this when those shipping costs really add up very quickly and money isn't too expandable I just let it go.

I'd rather pay shipping and get the free repairs as well. That amp would be a great amp to hold on to. That is my opinion, lets talk about what you have now instead.

The BXI-2408D is a lot better choice then some of the other amps you had listed. Like people mentioned they may have said 2500 watts but when they are likely fused at 80 amps or less you will be losing far more power then you stand to gain.

The Fosgate T10001BD  along with all the power series amps are extremely under ratted. The RF is fused at 150 amps and will easily do 1800watts+.

Your new amp is fused at 240-250 amps and will surely do a lot of power.

Anyone with install experience will tell you the first problem you have is why your burning up the amp you have/had.(fosgate)

I assure you the chances of the amp being at fault are slim. Some pics of your current install will help to give a better idea of what is going on. Then we can try and fix that so your next amp will not have the same problems, Plus with such a power draw you run the chance of damaging your vehicle very easily if not for some major upgrades.

I would hope that you are running 0gauge wire at this point for the fosgate amp, and for the new amp your replacing it with as well. If the RF was your only amp you could stand to get away with just upgrading all your factory wires under the hood(big three) and running the amp off a larger capacitor and being ok.(not great)

I have done it before myself without any problems on a 10 farad cap, but I am going with a sound quality setup and don't rock on the subs that hard.

Before you install you next amp which will require serious upgrades to your vehicle to run properly maybe consider posting some pics and asking about what you need to do to get the new amp in and insure that it will be able to work correctly without damaging it and even more not causing damage to your vehicle.

Some people will be Jack ***e$ on here but most will not and want to help you out.

Show us where you are at, and go from there.

soundcontrol wrote:

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I'd rather pay shipping and get the free repairs as well. That amp would be a great amp to hold on to. That is my opinion, lets talk about what you have now instead.

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The RF should Be able to do 1800max or rms? Im just going by the 1200Wrms Birth certificate they gave me @1ohm. i didnt think they would lie to me?

Thank you... I know the name of the thread is watts for the buck but obviously theres some Helpful knowledge I need after explaining my problem of burning these amps.

This is what it used to look like...

yes I've added the Big three in the 2 month spand my Rockford Fosgate was out and Upgraded all of my wires to 0-gauge. I have a small capacitor so I had an Idea of the voltage drop from 14.2v to 10v (never 9v)...

Note* At this time in my life i didnt know the importance of voltage drop. I just happen to be looking for a thread about batteries and that was this year.

So now I figured "this has to be one of the biggest problems my amp keeps having and frying on me." So i upgraded the wires and got the amplifier back from rockford about a month later. When I hooked it up from about 40hz + the bass sounded great, it was strong, the voltage was only going down to 12- or high 11v on long continous notes. But anything 39hz and less (a drop beat) the voltage would drop to 7volts! and Even with my last T10001bd's WITHOUT THE BIG 3 It never dropped that low no matter if the engine was on or off.

So i knew it had to be a problem either with my grounds (but i didnt see how since the other notes had absolutely no problem at even full tilt & and my other amps didnt either) or the amp just not getting fixed completely.

I measured the resistance throughout the grounds, and that all cameout below 1 ohm of resistance. Then I got a old amp from out of the shed and tested it (on subs), and no major voltage drops at any note.

I put the T10001bd Back in and turned it on to play it and it was going good until it dropped once and *Pop* some smoke came out and I cringed.

Now for the next amp I am going to put wood where the amps are mounted because I have had a problem with amps going into Protect mode because they were mounted on the metal. So im going to eliminate that problem from the start. (T10001bd was not touching metal I bought the plastic things from walmart that you put in the hole first and then put screws in the plastic casing to mount it. Anyone know why amps would go into protect when mounted on metal?

Now im looking to change my ground to this Area. Nice and short to my Ground Dist. (Which will be about 6 inches away from the rail)

^^On the Metal Rails that are mounted to the floor (Metal to Metal & no paint in between) of the Cab.^^

Or

on the floor of the Cab where I have seen many grounds in These ford trucks Before

Install looks pretty good. A lot better then I was expecting.

This post will be in reference to your power question, the next in reference to you install trouble shooting. I would say 1800 watts max and the reason why is as follows.

I use two methods for estimating amps power. One is ohms law. The other is the times ten rule.( you have never heard of times 10 because I just named it, but it works really well lol, seriously)

Ohms law is voltage x amperage = power(watts.)  So the Fosgate is fused at 150 and will draw every bit of that... So 13.8 x 150 = 2070watts, now that assumes the amp is 100% efficient. The amp isn't, so lets go with 70% efficient which is very possible with a Class D amp.

So 2070 x 0.7= 1449watts same numbers at at 14.4 = 1512 watts. Very real achievable numbers. Now also these amps have built in power supplies and caps to help generate their power and do more wattage then that.

So I came up with and use the "Times 10" rule. Also handy when you don't have a calculator. lol Works for Class D, and class ab or anything else all the same. Heres the magic, take what the amps is fused at and multiply it times 10. Poof magic number for power. For larger class D amps you can usually add a another 200 watts or so.

Examples:

Fosgate 10001BD  150x10= 1500, easily add another 200ish for 1700 or so max

Crossfire BMF1000D, easily these amps bench at 1450watts, fused at 120, times 10= 1200 plus another 200 ish for 1400watts.

MTX 8100D rated at 1500watts, fused at 150, times 10= 1500watts. Easily add another 200 to that.

JBL 14001 rated at 1500watts fused at 160, times 10= 1600 plus some for 1800.

Memphis 1000D rated at 1100watts, fused at 80, times 10= 800 plus another 200 gets you real close to 1100.

Fosgate T5001BD CEA rated at 400 watts and fused at 100amps. Hmm I wonder what that amp will do..... a freaking lot more then 400watts. I had one, its 1000+ all day. Very underrated and stupid not to use these for SPL. 200watts at 4ohms rating and easily does over 1kw.

JL audio 1000/1 rated at 1000watts fused at 100amps, times 10= 1000 pretty easily all day.

For class ab its usually spot on with the amps actual rating. I dont usually add anything to it.

Crossfire tek 150.2, rated at 600watts fused at 60amps, times 10= 600watts and it will easily do it and then some.

It's something I started using back in 98 when I first got into car audio in high school and you had no real way of comparing amps at all. It may seem really stupid but it works really well. Now the CEA 2006 compliant has helped some to start comparing these amps a little easier.

Sorry for the long post, but it is my theory.

For you install stuff. You have a really tough environment being in a truck and having such limited space. (Plus amps that are huge.) Mounting to metal isn't usually a huge issue but I would avoid when possible because of it's ability to transfer heat so well. That along with your back seat being up against the amps leads to no air at all. Even with mounting spacers it will still have very little air circulation with the seat being up against it. Plus there is always a chance of some kind of short and metal being a great conductor of electricity.

The other problems to consider is the amps themselves. It appears you have around a one farad cap installed. With the 150amps alone from your 1000D it isn't nearly enough. Plus I know for a fact that big Fosgate amp next to it will easily pull another 60amps or more.

150 from your 1000d plus another 60 or so is a conservative 210amps right now. Assuming you have a factory alternator installed I would say that is bad news waiting to happen.

When I first got my crossfire 1000D it would shut off if I played on it much because at the time It was running straight to the battery and would have a drop in voltage pretty quick.

I added a total of 2.5 farads worth of caps and upgraded the big  three and never had any problems. My current setup has a ten farad cap for about 160 amps worth of total current draw along with the big three upgrade. This isn't ideal but it works. Mainly because of the system only being used as a sq setup and the subs not really being over whelming in the least. More focus is on the front stage.

The factory alt is made to power your vehicle and not a lot of anything else. So you would have an 80-90 amp alt trying to power your vehicle along with another 210amps from your system. I know you have already tested it but I would guess it is a combination of the amp not getting enough power and maybe the heat from where it is mounted to cause it to blow out.

If you can get some pics of where everything is grounded in the vehicle just to double check that as well. Then try going from there about your charging system. Also mentionif you have any other upgradesto the alt or battery ect.

Also I would try holding off on installing your other amp just yet. Considering it draws 240 amps by itself.

i am an idiot wrote:

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Haemphyst, where are you?

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Oh God haemphyst is about to LAY IT on me

And I know some of you have seen my ground question already in my other post.

...  ok now look, I know Caps are worthless to you But... Sound Control Yeah I have a 3 Farad Cap. I have a 200amp H/O Alt because i am actually TRYING to get an efficient Electrical system for my vehicle so i dont keep blowing money on broken amps. Like I said earlier I did the Big 3. And When I play my radio loud I lean the seat up so the amps get circulation.

Pretty much after all of these electrical upgrades and I got the rockford Back. It was dropping voltage down to 7v on low notes and BLEW again and I personally feel like THAT ONE was an incomplete fix. I mean with that Never happening before and I've had 3 T10001bd's. But I guess we will never know.

And the AMp definately wont be maxed out. Atleast I hope not with me TRYING to use about 1400watts( thats the max for my subs). The way they are making it sound thats probably all im gonna get

Well lets say the alt and the big 3 are all done properly. Your next area of checking would be your amp and cap grounds. Pretty easy.

For me a good solid metal area of the car that is flat. Get some sandpaper and sand away all the paint till you have a nice area to mount your ground. From there you are ready to place your wire and shoot about 3 screws in place. This will help make sure that the wire is held in place and can't move. Also make sure there is nothing on the other side.

Then check your voltage at the battery, then at your amp. Also try the other areas under the hood. Your upgraded grounds and all just to make sure everything is good and secure.

Then try putting the meter positive on the amp positive and the negative to your actual battery negative. See what this reads then, see how that compares to your amps positve and your amps ground at where you grounded it to the vehicle. Should be little to no lose in voltage. Maybe some tenths of a volt.  ex 14.4 at the battery and maybe 14.38 or so at the amp.

The large voltage drop on the lower bass notes is common because that is when your amp is having to draw more power to produce these longer bass notes. Caps aren't a waste. They serve a purpose, they are not solutions. Caps help store power and discharge at a rate the your battery 15-20 feet away can't do. When you have such a big drop, your amp is pulling more then the system is able to give it.

Give an update with what luck you have on the different voltages and any ground pics as well.

my capacitor is about 1.5ft in power wire away from my amp ( I dont have a sub amp installed right now) so I just measured at the Cap with the DMM (Even though it has Digital reading i still checked with DMM). 

the Positive and Negative at the Battery read 14.27v and at the Capacitor it read 14.25v. So im going to guess thats not too bad. And I actually have one more Ground wire to Upgrade before I hook up this amp. It is from the frame to the Hood of my truck. (Because the Factory has it done with some 18awg wire, and I dont want any wires frying).

I grounded my Capacitor On the railing (Page 3) that I showed you. To the Black Bolts. Because that Rail is bolted to the Floor of the Cab where there is no Paint. But I scraped under the connection just to make sure.

Now I see it. The pics were a little hard to tell until I read the captions.

You are getting a good voltage reading at the cap. Very little lost between the battery and the amp area. I would reccomend trying to clear away a spot on the floor and testing your ground there. Do like you have with clearing away the paint to bear metal and see how that works. Also test it with the meter.

There have been many occasions where I've seen amps grounded to a seat bracket that is a thin metal bolted to the floor. Worked ok with smaller amps, and caused problems for the more powerful ones.

Sounds like once you get that last wire under the hood you are great there. It's just getting the amp area figured out.

What about the gain settings on your amp? How are they set?

What kind of radio are you using and do you have any eqs or line drivers hooked up?

They should paint a picture of everything.

Alright Here's the setup for the most part

https://www......com/item_10116_Power+Acoustik+PTID-4005.html

https://www......com/item_6655_Clarion+EQS746.html

https://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&series_id=7&family_id=23&item_id=100031&locale=en_US

https://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/CarAudioVideo/Subwoofers/Champion/TS-W1008D2%7CD4 4 of them under rear seat.

SPL Cap 3 Farad And rockford RCA wiring.

No sub amp so there are no gains there yet.

The equalizer has a Gain for Aux units which i use for my ipod. I matched it with the regulated gain of the Head Unit (No gain knob on EQ for HU) as the manual instructed.

The Way I did this was by measuring the AC voltage at my speaker terminals (Gain on amp was set to minimum*didnt really matter though*) at full tilt on my head unit & ipod **Note- the reason for measuring at full tilt is because MY ipod's volume seems to have an EXPONENTIAL growth factor. Which means it spikes up at the last couple millimeters on the volume bar**

After Matching the HU and Ipod I proceeded to Set my midrange speakers as Rockford suggest with the DMM. Im running 4 8ohm 6.5" speakers at bridged 2ohm on the T3002. With the Formula Voltage^2 / Resistance= Power, I Measured it to 40v which comes out to be 40*40=1600 1600/2ohm= 800watts

So approximately 140-200watts per door Speaker Since it was measured with a test tone 500hz. (I have 4 door Speakers)

0 Gauge wire

and trying to get the best grounds. The Hifonics amp arrives Saturday.

I mean But when the voltage was dropping (the last time i got the amp back) it was going down to about 7volts, my truck would drain and my radio would almost shut off and just everything would almost die. And that NEVER happened before. I know low notes take more power but 7volts is unacceptable when it has never done that before until it came back from rockford. you get it? I'm Going to home depot to crimp the rest of these 0 gauge wires lol yeah I had to get around the system on that one (=

And the capacitor is about 2ft of wire from the amp. so SHould it be reading about the voltage that the amp is reading? Because its at 14.28v. Im gonna check the voltage at the battery by tonight and ill let you know the drop.

Your install stuff and cap location all sound fine.

"the voltage was dropping (the last time i got the amp back) it was going down to about 7volts, my truck would drain and my radio would almost shut off and just everything would almost die. "

That says it all. It's not the amp.(kinda)  Everything else can't handle the current draw. I'm surprised with the alt you have being around 200amps it wouldn't handle it.

I would have to check with someone who has delt with that before. Or maybe an alternator shop and ask them. You may need an isolator and a 2nd battery. Just so you can have that  large amount of power in the back with your amps.

I had that setup in a hardbody pickup running a crossfire1000d and arc audio 2ch for a max draw of about 145amps.  Never had any problems. That is still 100amps less then what you have.

But your 3002 is fused at 80 and the 1000BD at 150 equals 230plus amps. That Brutus amp on the way is 240 amps alone. You may want to have someone that does SPL check it out as well for some help.

Last question. What brand is the alternator? It isn't one of these rewound or rebuilt ones where they take a standard 80amp alt and turn it into a 140amp one?

Thats the only other thing I could think of.

But see thats why I always Make Sure to Add...

This has never happened before Even with my Old 110amp alt and Not having the big 3. Never below 10volts no matter what bass, how loud, clipping or not clipping. That has never happened to me before. And I just got a New Battery so its not that.

It ONLY started happening when I got the T10001bd Back from the rockford the second time. The first time they just sent me a brand new amp. The second time they fixed the New amp( after it malfunstioned the second time I new it had to be somewhere in the install so I upgraded most of everything Big 3 and Alt). And when it came back the second time "Fixed" The voltage started dropping that low to 7volts.

But Tomorrow when I get the amp and test it ill let you know how it goes with Voltage drop and overall sound quality. I'll be doing my last ground today when this rain stops. Good ole Florida weather

Hopefully it works well.

Do you have any pics of your door speaker install?

1. The ground used to be here...

Now it is right here...

And that Rail is bolted to the Paintless Cab on the Floor. (Rail is on the right & is about 4mm Thick) Broke 2 Drill Bits Trying to Go through it.

With the new ground ^^^ the voltage increased from 13.8v to 14.2v (at idle) So I thought that was impressive... right? The Amp is sharing a Common Ground The (Left wire) with the Cap (Right wire) right now to keep its Length as short as possible. Or should it just be ON the negative terminal?

2. I have my Midrange amp grounded to a bolt to the left of the truck(cap on the right Close to the Sub amp). The ground (from T3002) would have to reach 2.5ft+ to get to the cap. Is that a ok distance? I have a Extra Un-Fused Distrobution block that I can use from the Neg Cap terminal to Both AMps.

2. The Battery is 850 CCA and I hope its charged ? I'll def look into getting it checked out now. But My battery before was a 2 year old 540 CCA Motorcraft that never dimmed. (in the truck when I bought it)

3. All of my Sub amps have been T10001bd that the voltage never dropped to 7v and seemed to destroy my electrical system like it was doing recently. **Note- I tested a old amp (Different Kind) with the same wiring and it did not drop the voltage below 11v**

4. I wouldnt mind getting a second battery but I've heard bad stories about wet-cell batteries in vehicles. It just seems too Dangerous now.

5. The wiring From Battery to Cap and CAP to  SUB amp is 0 gauge. The T3002 has all 4 Gauge. Distributed from a block from the Caps Positive terminal.

6. Alright And how should I go about testing my grounds under the hood. Should I test for Voltage with Pos from Battery to Ground? or should I check for resistence between Battery (-) terminal and the other ground point?

Well I Just added another Ground wire that I saw under the hood That wasnt mentioned and now im Idling at 14.39v instead of 14.28.. any little bit helps right?

And the does the (+) to Alt from battery need to be fused or what? I got the fuses I just need to go and buy the fuse holder if i need it.

You've done all the right things to get your system wired really well. I'm not a big fan of going to seat belt bolts or things like that but it seems to be ok with your T3002. 

I've done some installs with longer then recommended grounds and never had any problems. Especially when its not your larger powered amp. When you ground it properly, with the correct size wire you will notice that the measured resistance for the wire is very little.(especially when compared to a wire that is shorter)

The only thing I would consider changing is the grounds to the metal rail. I can't say that is the cause of your problem at this point but it's the only other thing left that I would change. When you can move them down a few feet to get to the actual source instead of something that is connected to it I think that is the way to go. The measeured resistance of the little extra length in wire is probably lower then the resistance of the metal connected to the cab of your truck.

For the wire going from your alt to your battery it's up to you. It never hurts to put a fuse on something. I didn't on my car because it was a  direct wire about 2.5 feet  that doesn't touch anything in between except some plastic tubing it is zip tied to.

"3. All of my Sub amps have been T10001bd that the voltage never dropped to 7v and seemed to destroy my electrical system like it was doing recently. **Note- I tested a old amp (Different Kind) with the same wiring and it did not drop the voltage below 11v**"

What kind of amp did you use to test  the wiring?(make and model) Or what kind of possible current draw does it have?

6. Alright And how should I go about testing my grounds under the hood. Should I test for Voltage with Pos from Battery to Ground? or should I check for resistence between Battery (-) terminal and the other ground point?

Both. I think the battery pos to ground I would do first, then the resistance. If all the battery positive to grounds test to be the same then the resistance measurement will only confirm that they are all similar resistance. If one test way off from the rest the resistance measusrement may show why. Loose connection or bad crimp or terminal ect.

I Just got the Hofonics amp installed and adjusted the the gains and other frequency knobs to my needs. So Far so Good. No Major Voltage Drops. Not really Catching any drops below 11.5v. and keep in mind this is from the Demand of the T3002 (700- 800wrms) (Birth sheet reads 901wrms Bridged @2ohms) and the BXI2408D Amp.

So I may or may not have a ground problem but It has seemingly gone away.

But I think I am finished with it for a while. I've done these upgrades and I just want to enjoy it now.

Good deal. Hope it works well. It should be loud.

Post pics when you get time.

Also, did you mention early having dual mid bass speakers in the doors? If so if you have pics of that could you post it as well.

I only have 1 speaker in each door. In the Supercabs they have speakers in the front and Back-suicide doors.

But Yeah Ill post some pictures as soon as I can. I Should be able to tomorrow

Here's the Set up... as of now

Power Acoustik Deck And Clarion Equalizer

Rockford Fosgate T3002 (4 gauge connects) & Hifonics BXI2408D (0 gauge Connects). 3F Capacitor to the right of the Amps

4 10inch Pioneer Premiers in self made enclosure . I plan on Getting a FiberGlass enclosure in some months... I Need to find out about How much they go for because I have no clue of Fiberglass prices. I need the fiberglass box so it can bend over a hump under the back seat where there is about another 1cbft.

After the Fiber Glass Box I will be finished for a while. Thanks for the help everybody

Considering the size of the box and time needed in labor along with material cost it would be tough to go much cheaper and not suffer in quality.

Do you use your back seat much? If not at all you could do a great custom install with it out, and not have to use fiberglass. Plus have a great amp rack made to go with it.  Or go half and half, and leave part of the back seat and do  like a 60/40 split  or 50/50.

Looks good though.

Yeah thats kind of the problem I use that Back Seat and I like things to look natural. (kind of a problem with the limited space of mine). But I was thinking for a temp. box I would just build about a 4.2cft box 52"W 13"D 14"H and remove the bottom of the seat and people could just sit on top of the box if need be. I May Double layer the top with a brace in the middle(inside the box dividing 2 subs on each side) until I can save up enough money for a fiberglass box under the seat.

With the Fiberglass box would the Subwoofers facing forward sound best? or should I leave them facing up-fire as is.

Sometimes it varies. I always try listening to both and seeing/hearing which I prefer. When I had my nissan ex-cab I tried them firing forward, down, and up and forward was by far the loudest and best soundong.

That would be a good idea to make the box a part of the rear seat. If possible keep the original back that covers the amps and  the part where you sit would happen to be the enclosure. Have the subs firing forward and it might work perfect.

Depending on space you could always go with fewer subs and a ported enclosure. Lots of options to consider.

Yeah it seems that IM going to go with the back seat (wooden)box temporarily until I can get the fiber glass enlosure. And Yeah having the subs fire forward worked best for me when I had my T1's.

And I would like to go ported but that its probably going to be too much hassle with port noise and tuning.

Because im actually just going to lowe, having them cut the wood I need and im just caulking, screwing, and dampening everything. Since I'm lacking of High Powered tools here.

But thanks alot for the help man