use factory speaker wire or run new wire?

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=113170
Printed Date: July 18, 2025 at 10:39 PM

Topic: use factory speaker wire or run new wire?

Posted By: drober30
Subject: use factory speaker wire or run new wire?
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 9:12 AM

I would like to know your opinion if using the factory speaker wire is acceptable or should I require new wires to be run?

I'm installing top of the line JL Audio equipment in a 2009 Ram.

Installer said up to me but factory wire should be fine. I would just like to make an educated decision.

HD Amps
Two - 10w6v2 subs
ZR 650 components front/rear doors.
Cleansweep keeping factory HU with Nav and uConnect.

Replies:

Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 9:52 AM

It really is up to you... The GAUGE of the factory wire is perfectly adequate to transfer ANY amount of power you may be installing, however, that being said, using factory wire can be considered a "shortcut", and if he's using that one, what others might he be using? Nobody has EVER proven, even in multi-million dollar home systems, that spending huge money on cables can make a difference in the sound of a system, so with all of these notes in your mind, it really IS up to you.

Me? Personally? With all of the gear you are adding, I'd add to the "bling", and put some high-end cables in there, with the FULL KNOWLEDGE that it IS just bling! Same reason I have two 1F caps in my system... They do nothing, but I like the "oohs" and "ahhhs" that people give 'em! posted_image

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Posted By: talarchevy
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 7:34 PM

I agree with haemphyst its a bling factor. I've only had problems once on a 04 chevy w/bose. The wires leaving the stock amp did not match the wire colors at the rear doors. My question is if the amp is going to me mounted under seat or back of cab your going run new wire up to behind new deck to intercept stock speaker wires any way. You might as well just run them to the doors ( your half way there) the only reason the installler probaly asked is he might be using. "Speed cable". I love to use speed cable. It saves a lot of time. But as a part weekend installer its what the customer wants (and what there willing to pay)

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Go BIG or go Home it might not be broke, but lets fix it anyway

Posted By: drober30
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 7:52 PM

Thanks for the replies!

The amps will be mounted under the rear seats with the subs. They are custom fiber glassing a sub enclosure and will mount the amps between them. Custom install, should look real nice.

They will have to run wires from the amp to the crossovers then from the crossovers I bet they will look for the speaker wire under the dash before it goes through the door molex.

Otherwise they would have to drill out the molex. This is my guess.

Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 8:34 PM

Where are you planning to mount the crossovers? Are there separates in the door already?

Posted By: drober30
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 8:55 PM

Installer said he was going to hide the crossovers. I asked if they could be displayed back with the amps but he said there would be no room.

The truck has nine speakers plus sub. Really it's two sets of component with the front doors housing the mids and the dash has the tweeters. The dash also an extra tweeter (center channel). The rear doors house the mids and the two tweeters are mounted in the ceiling for the flip down monitor.

They advertise it as a nine speaker system plus sub. That would like me saying the JL Audio 650 ZR's I'm buying for the front and rears are an eight speaker system.

I would like to show off the crossovers when I flip up the seat, well see. The fiberglass box will be painted to match the truck.

Posted By: ckeeler
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 9:19 PM

sounds like alot of work. (and if i was doing that much work i would not even think twice about running the new wire for the "bling factor", i would just do it as long as the customer wanted to pay for it. in fact, i would try and talk them into it) if i was doing the install, i as the installer would insist on showing the crossovers. maybe not as extravagant as this system i did but i would do something for sure.

posted_image

Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 9:23 PM

He is the customer. The reason I asked about the location, and the amount of speakers was to find out if there were enough wires going into the door.

Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 15, 2009 at 11:04 PM

First of all... STOP HIM!!!!

All of those tweeters, from your descriptions, are ALL going to be WAY too far from the mids... THEY NEED TO BE CLOSER TOGETHER!!!

Can you say "suckout"?

Also, passive crossovers should be as close to the drivers as possible... ALWAYS! ...so, the crossovers in the amp rack, IMO, was a bad idea anyway.

A TWEETER for a center channel? Wrong answer there, too! Center channel information is as full-range as he doors!

That system is going to sound like crap...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Posted By: t&t tech
Date Posted: April 16, 2009 at 5:44 AM

sweet work ckeeler, how'd the system bump.

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COMMIT YOUR WAY TO JEHOVAH AND HE WILL ACT IN YOUR BEHALF. PSALMS 37:5

Posted By: drober30
Date Posted: April 16, 2009 at 6:16 AM

haemphyst wrote:

First of all... STOP HIM!!!!

All of those tweeters, from your descriptions, are ALL going to be WAY too far from the mids... THEY NEED TO BE CLOSER TOGETHER!!!

Can you say "suckout"?

Also, passive crossovers should be as close to the drivers as possible... ALWAYS! ...so, the crossovers in the amp rack, IMO, was a bad idea anyway.

A TWEETER for a center channel? Wrong answer there, too! Center channel information is as full-range as he doors!

That system is going to sound like crap...

What I was explaining was the factory speakers. Here is a link to a picture of the factory system:

https://www.dodge.com/en/2009/ram_1500/innovations/multimedia/

Maybe there not tweeters but they are small and look like tweeters to me? The factory amp is supposed to separate the signals like a crossover does.

My installer will be using a JL Cleansweep and a JL Summing device.

The installer was going to put the tweeters next to the mid on a custom plate or I have had them mounted in the a pillar/side view mirror housing before. He suggested not putting the "ZR" tweeters in the dash because the windshield has an effect on the sound and even turning the crossover down, the tweeters are to bright.

Why should the crossovers be located next to the speakers? I have had them displayed in the trunk of my car on previous systems just like the photo in the other post (great install by the way!). This being a truck, there is just a limited amount of space for display.

Posted By: ckeeler
Date Posted: April 16, 2009 at 8:59 AM

t&t tech wrote:

sweet work ckeeler, how'd the system bump.

thanks t&t. it "bumps" awesome. the system sounds like crap however. this customer wanted the dumbest setup i think i had ever done. if you notice there is 1 15" in the center with an inverted 10" on each side (stupid). and then componets in the back facing the rear hatch door (hmmmm...). i tried to talk this guy out of the way he wanted it done (and for good reason) but he would not listen at all and insisted i do it like he wanted. basicly some people have waayyy more money than sense, and i do have to pay my bills and be able to eat so i did what the customer wanted and charged accordingly. the entire system got stolen after about 6 days of him showing the entire south side of Albuquerque NM what was in his SUV. his insurance company paid me to redo the entire thing again, so it was a good paying job for me and got all the "ohhhs and ahhhhs" at the car shows and yes it was quite loud, but not an SQ system by any means. i think as he is getting a little older he sees what i tried telling him before we started the entire thing and he is now talking about taking it all out and letting me do it all over only this time it will be my way...muahahahaha!

Posted By: ckeeler
Date Posted: April 16, 2009 at 9:09 AM

drober30 wrote:

Why should the crossovers be located next to the speakers? I have had them displayed in the trunk of my car on previous systems just like the photo in the other post (great install by the way!).

actually if you notice, the crossovers are right next to the componets (cause that customer insisted he have componets in the back that point out when you opened up the rear door, lol)

Posted By: drober30
Date Posted: April 16, 2009 at 10:29 AM

ckeeler wrote:

drober30 wrote:

Why should the crossovers be located next to the speakers? I have had them displayed in the trunk of my car on previous systems just like the photo in the other post (great install by the way!).

actually if you notice, the crossovers are right next to the componets (cause that customer insisted he have componets in the back that point out when you opened up the rear door, lol)

OK... so it's very apparent you know your stuff so why are crossovers supposed to be near the speakers? Can't you just run the wires to the speakers from a more distant location?

I'm leaning toward having all new speaker wire run, after all, from the clean sweep the RCA's will go to the amp's and then you need to run speaker wire from the amp's to the speakers. So the only thing I would be requesting is that the run from the amp go through the door molex and attach to the new speaker. I don't think that's much to ask for a complete high end install. This would leave all the factory speaker connections in tact (not cutting the plugs off).

I think the only invasive part would be connecting the cleansweep to the speaker wires coming out of the factory amp. The less cutting or splicing of the factory wiring the better!

Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 16, 2009 at 12:11 PM

I always recommend crossover placement as close as possible to the drivers to prevent cable interaction (resistance most notably, with capacitance a close second) with the crossover point. The crossovers are idealy already designed with zero ohms between them and the driver, so ANY additional resistance can affect the voicing of the system. Too much wire, and you can start to dramatically effect the entire thing!

There should be a harness available for nearly EVERY audio harness out there. Have your installer look for one, rather than cutting your factory harness.

Looking at the system you linked, the OEM Alpine system is woofers with a mid/tweeter type of affair. With the JL systems you are replacing them with, you are installing a mid/woofer with a tweeter type of affair. The tweeters are NOT going to be acceptable replacements for the mid/tweeter drivers you are trying to use. The crossover point will be FAR higher in the aftermarket kits than they are in the OEM kit, absolutely necessitating the closer placement. The crossover point on the JLs is FAR too high to have them placed more than about 3 to 5 physical inches apart. More than that, and they will not integrate correctly. I'm just sayin'...

The higher the crossover point, the closer the drivers MUST remain. Also, the higher the crossover point the more important it is to keep them on the same physical plane. Once a driver starts to "beam", and you bring another, higher frequency driver in, it becomes vitally important that the crossover point maintain that same plane for proper phasing of the wavefronts being produced. With the described placements, you ARE going to hear the tweeters as a driver and the mids as a separate driver, rather than one point of sound, which is FAR more desirable.

Good call on the replacing of the wires, though... With that kind of change already being put into the system, a few extra bucks into the speaker wires will at least LOOK good! posted_image

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Posted By: drober30
Date Posted: April 16, 2009 at 8:40 PM

haemphyst,

Thanks for the "full" explanation! I was seeking and appreciate the knowledge of "why".

I will have the tweeters mounted next to the mids. This is where the installer said he personally did in his car. I will have him install/hide the crossovers in the doors ( I think this is where they usually put them).

I would very much appreciate your suggestion on what adapter could be used to interface the JL Audio cleansweep into my system as to prevent the factory harness from being cut!

My understanding is they will have to attach the summing device after the factory amp to sum the signals and then feed them into the cleansweep to achieve a flat signal and then they will send that signal to the after market JL amps.

I'm familiar with adapters for the head units but do you think they would have one for the harness out of the amp?

Really appreciate you taking the time to help out!

Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: April 17, 2009 at 12:01 AM

Whew... You had me worried a bit there! posted_image

Here's the12volt's application guide for that truck...

Looks that way. There is a module available for doing just that.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."