d5000 orion amp/system issues guru neede
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=114720
Printed Date: May 03, 2025 at 3:16 AM
Topic: d5000 orion amp/system issues guru neede
Posted By: chargerondavins
Subject: d5000 orion amp/system issues guru neede
Date Posted: June 27, 2009 at 12:32 AM
Well this is long, but stay with me it's all important. This problem has been with two different vehicles now.
OLD Equipment: 1995 Ford Explorer 4.0
300 Amp Alternator
Kinetic Battery (800)
Pioneer Deck (forget model)
D5000 Orion Amp (2500 RMS) ( 1 ohm stable )
4 12" HCCA 12.2 subwoofers in a ported box (2000 RMS each) (Wired per instructions on this website @ 1 ohm)
This stereo was professionally installed, and here is the problem it had then: Clipping. While turning the volume up past 3/4 way, the amp clips for 1-10 seconds (depending on how bad it clipped) then resumed fine. If I kept it below that volume, all was well... sort of.
Eventually, it cut out to less volume one day all the way up... and then a few days later it got to the point where it would only work sometimes and barely. Time for a new amp.
Installed New Amp: (Same, warrantied) Worked great. (Still clipped) but no issues other than the clipping.
Sold the truck.
Fast forward to now:
NEW TRUCK, SAME SYSTEM:
Now dual DVD screen. (Laugh, go ahead, dual sucks... but unlike my pioneer the bass doesn't skip the cd player, and it sounds great. I hate dual but it's actually not a bad unit at all)
I now own a 2003 Ford Explorer 4.0, factory alternator (anybody who has owned one of these trucks knows they actually do quite well. My friend has a 2000 RMS amp and none of his lights dim and the battery gauge doesn't budge, factory (a 2002 explorer, same truck).
Lights didn't dim at all with my 1300 RMS amp, now they do a little with the D5000. (Maybe 10-15% dim).
When playing, the battery gauge doesn't budge. Ever. I know it works, because A) when the car is off it goes down. B) When my alternator started dying it slowly went down to LOW in voltage.
Clipping problem still exists. Higher bass seems to have less of an effect (less of a draw I assume, but this is no different from the old set-up).
The alternator is brand new, the battery is brand new. I have 0 Gauge from the battery, to a distribution block where 4 gauge runs to the amp. This amp takes Dual 4 Gauge inputs, and dual 4 gauge grounds. The grounds are put together at one spot in the back. The ground worked fine for a week.
Everything worked great (minus the clipping) then today in mid-song, my bass cut-out to 1/2 volume. Still clips as it did before at higher volumes, but isn't as loud. All 4 subs are playing. No lights displayed on the amp other than the typical lights.
Also, when this happened the cabin of my truck smelled as if something fried (but QUICKLY went away). Smelled the amp, it smells perfectly normal. Smelled the alternator, battery absolutely normal (I'm a redneck I can smell when I've fried something). The battery gauge is in normal operating (Just where it was before I Installed the monster system). The alternator makes no sounds or smells, and even when idling my battery gauge is fine. Turn on a bunch of stuff and the alternator is still fine.
Tried revving to 3k RPM and playing the system, doesn't help.
So the clipping has always been an issue, and now the half-volume issue is arising. Last time in my old truck it was much quieter than this time.
What I've Checked:
- Ground is tight and secure.
- Re-connected all remote/power/ground connections and RCA's.
- Found semi-loose remote wire. Fixed it. Did nothing.
There are no fuses on the outside of the amp whatsoever. The fuse on the battery has not blown.
The sub outlet on my deck was at 0. (Out of -7 through +7) and the gain was 1/2 the way up.
Mids and highs are powered by the deck, and are unaffected by these issues.
Any ideas?
Ideas on fixing the clipping issue, and why the hell are they messing up?
Here's some reading I found to give you some insight in to the D5000 Amp Problems:
[url]https://www.recommendedbuys.com/electronics/car-amplifiers/orion-hcca-d5000.htm[/url]
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2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Replies:
Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: June 27, 2009 at 9:00 PM
Recheck your sub impedence the way they are wired up. Probalbly below 1 ohm. Smell could have come from voice coils.
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: June 27, 2009 at 10:35 PM
is your ground screwed tightly to bare unpainted metal? also check each sub to make sure one of them didn't blow. if they share the same chamber in the box you wont know if one is blown because it will still move when the others hit. if one IS blown it would change the total ohm load that your amp sees.
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Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 28, 2009 at 1:29 AM
soundnsecurity wrote:
is your ground screwed tightly to bare unpainted metal? also check each sub to make sure one of them didn't blow. if they share the same chamber in the box you wont know if one is blown because it will still move when the others hit. if one IS blown it would change the total ohm load that your amp sees.
The ground is good, and no subs are blown, they all play fine (feeling at low volumes) and 2 share together.
------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 28, 2009 at 1:31 AM
lspker wrote:
Recheck your sub impedence the way they are wired up. Probalbly below 1 ohm. Smell could have come from voice coils.
The subs handle 2000 RMS each, I seriously doubt even at 1/4 ohm they would fry. The amp puts out 2500 RMS among 4 subs, so 620 watts a piece. Severely underpowered.
Also, the clipping problem occurred before all of this. Seems liek some of you didn't follow ,my story lol ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: June 28, 2009 at 10:00 PM
If you have the subs at 1/4 hooked to an amp that is 1 ohm stable it will shut down. If you under power the sub you can cook it. The amp at 1/4 would have high distortion rates, and clipping will cook a sub. What is the actual measured impedence of your set up. if I remember the 2 ohm coils were 1.6 ohm.
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 28, 2009 at 11:58 PM
lspker wrote:
If you have the subs at 1/4 hooked to an amp that is 1 ohm stable it will shut down. If you under power the sub you can cook it. The amp at 1/4 would have high distortion rates, and clipping will cook a sub.
What is the actual measured impedence of your set up. if I remember the 2 ohm coils were 1.6 ohm.
I'll have to measure it.
I've not heard of underpowering a sub causing them to blow, but I'm not an expert. My sponsor/audio vendor never mentioned this to me. I don't want two amps, what should I do, sell 2 subs? Would it kick as loud and stop breaking? ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: June 29, 2009 at 1:18 AM
He also never explained to you that what you are describing (or at LEAST, what I am reading) IS NOT CLIPPING. Clipping is a more-or-less continuous situation that is a terrible sounding (but otherwise difficult to describe) noise. The only thing tyhat can make your system do what you are describing (which is simply "shutting off") is a defective amplifier, running too low an impedange for the amplifier, or an installation issue somewhere.
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 29, 2009 at 12:50 PM
haemphyst wrote:
He also never explained to you that what you are describing (or at LEAST, what I am reading) IS NOT CLIPPING. Clipping is a more-or-less continuous situation that is a terrible sounding (but otherwise difficult to describe) noise. The only thing tyhat can make your system do what you are describing (which is simply "shutting off") is a defective amplifier, running too low an impedange for the amplifier, or an installation issue somewhere.
Hmm well this is the second amp that's done this, what should I do first? ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: June 29, 2009 at 9:07 PM
And what did they measure out to?
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: June 29, 2009 at 9:18 PM
Get your meter out, and tell us what you read when checking the woofers. Did you check the DC resistance of the speakers, as suggested?? My expectation is that there is a mis-wire in there somewhere, and that you are NOT running 1 ohm, but something below that. There could be a disconnected voice coil somewhere. Are all 4 woofers playing? Are you ABSOLUTELY certain you wired each of them in series? All I need to know is what your meter says when you read DCR.
If your AVERAGE impedance is below 1 ohm (and it can be, depending on the drivers) your amp will shut down.
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 30, 2009 at 12:59 AM
haemphyst wrote:
Get your meter out, and tell us what you read when checking the woofers. Did you check the DC resistance of the speakers, as suggested?? My expectation is that there is a mis-wire in there somewhere, and that you are NOT running 1 ohm, but something below that. There could be a disconnected voice coil somewhere. Are all 4 woofers playing? Are you ABSOLUTELY certain you wired each of them in series? All I need to know is what your meter says when you read DCR.
If your AVERAGE impedance is below 1 ohm (and it can be, depending on the drivers) your amp will shut down.
The wiring was done professionally first time, and the second time (in a different car) installed by me, exactly to specs. I wired it just as shown on this website when you enter in 4 DVC 2 ohm subs to a mono block amp.
It's doing the same thing it always did.
the power being cut out may have been a fluke, initially when I tightened the loose remote wire, I may have just gotten used to it.
For the first 2 days I think it's loud as hell, then it seems quieter to me, always. I let the truck sit for a few days and I think it's just as loud, I just got used to it.
Now, I want to fix the clipping issue.
Could it be that the amp just can't handle pushing 4 power-hungry subs?
I think ruling out a wiring issue is logical, because I re-installed it as specs show here, and it does the same thing (all wires were disconnected and it sat for a few months in my garage till I bought a new truck)
Anyway, the clipping is now my #1 concern.
Any way to wire just 2 subs @ 1 ohm (DVC 2 ohm) to a mono block amp? ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 30, 2009 at 1:00 AM
also, I am absolutely positive they are all 4 playing.
Unless the wiring is incorrect on this site for 4 DVC 2 ohm subs to a mono block amp, then it's wired correctly. I checked all connections, still connected and still having the issue.
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2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: June 30, 2009 at 1:48 AM
PLEASE... Just pull the wires off the amp, check the DCR, and report back... Indulge us... We're trying to help you, and if we don't have ALL the information we ask for, we CAN'T help you to the best of our abilities.
There is NOTHING saying that you or even the guy before you DIDN'T make a mistake in the connections. I am NOT saying that you DID, but without the info we request...
Otherwise, to answer the question re: (2) DVC 2-ohm woofers and get one ohm, i't not gonna happen. You can have .5, 2, or 8 ohms.
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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 30, 2009 at 2:21 AM
haemphyst wrote:
PLEASE... Just pull the wires off the amp, check the DCR, and report back... Indulge us... We're trying to help you, and if we don't have ALL the information we ask for, we CAN'T help you to the best of our abilities.
There is NOTHING saying that you or even the guy before you DIDN'T make a mistake in the connections. I am NOT saying that you DID, but without the info we request...
Otherwise, to answer the question re: (2) DVC 2-ohm woofers and get one ohm, i't not gonna happen. You can have .5, 2, or 8 ohms.
Well I know my shop used the meter and said it wasn't quite 1 ohm. but close. 1.3 or something. If I had the meter, I would test it. I'll have to have my shop test it for me some time. I don't own any of these tools :( ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 30, 2009 at 1:55 PM
I might also add that I am not the first person to complain of this clipping issue, it's all over the internet.. :(
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2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: June 30, 2009 at 2:50 PM
ok, i know this has been beaten like a dead horse but maybe you should try a new ground at a different spot. bare with me, depending on how the floor of your car is put together and the exact position of where you grounded the amp there can still be more resistance than you would want between where you grounded it and the battery. you want it to be as close to 0 as possible if you were reading it with a meter. since you dont have a meter to test then it is all speculation whether your ground is really good or not and when you are talking about an amp with the kind of power output and current needs as yours, it can start to cause problems especially at higher volumes.
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Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: June 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM
soundnsecurity wrote:
ok, i know this has been beaten like a dead horse but maybe you should try a new ground at a different spot. bare with me, depending on how the floor of your car is put together and the exact position of where you grounded the amp there can still be more resistance than you would want between where you grounded it and the battery. you want it to be as close to 0 as possible if you were reading it with a meter. since you dont have a meter to test then it is all speculation whether your ground is really good or not and when you are talking about an amp with the kind of power output and current needs as yours, it can start to cause problems especially at higher volumes.
thanks man, I posted this on chargerforums too, lol.
So where would you recommend I ground it, you too own a 3rd gen exploder, right?
What else should I do to beef up the car to handle this amp/power.
I'm stock now.. Isolator.. how big of a kinetic battery should I have put in? what else? ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: edelbrockboy
Date Posted: June 30, 2009 at 4:35 PM
i dont want to insult your intelligence but what is this "clipping" u speak of. are you sure its really clipping? what noise are u hearing? distortion? also your amp cuts off you said... you sure its not overheating? even an amp at the right ohm rating can overheat if u push it to the max.
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: July 01, 2009 at 4:13 AM
edelbrockboy wrote:
i dont want to insult your intelligence but what is this "clipping" u speak of. are you sure its really clipping? what noise are u hearing? distortion? also your amp cuts off you said... you sure its not overheating? even an amp at the right ohm rating can overheat if u push it to the max.
You didn;t insult my intelligence, I did. It's not clipping. My friend called it clipping, in reality it just cuts out, then starts playing again 2-10 seconds later, depending on how loud it was when it clipped. ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: July 01, 2009 at 4:14 AM
there I go again, I said it at the end of my last message. I fail.
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2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: July 01, 2009 at 10:56 AM
no, i dont have an explorer, but i do have an 01 ranger. do you have the amp mounted behind the 2nd row of seats in the cargo area? and where do you have the amp grounded (paint me a mental image)
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Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: July 01, 2009 at 2:07 PM
soundnsecurity wrote:
no, i dont have an explorer, but i do have an 01 ranger. do you have the amp mounted behind the 2nd row of seats in the cargo area? and where do you have the amp grounded (paint me a mental image)
The amp is mounted on the back by the tailgate. I drilled my own ground in to the metal on the back about 1.5 feet away from the amp. I scratched the surface up.
Before, it had two separate grounds. Now, I put both grounds in the same spot. (The amp has two remote wires, two positives, and two grounds)
The 0 gauge runs to a distribution block and then dual 4 gauge wires go to the amp.
Perhaps I just need to separate the two grounds? ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: July 01, 2009 at 2:35 PM
chargerondavins wrote:
soundnsecurity wrote:
no, i dont have an explorer, but i do have an 01 ranger. do you have the amp mounted behind the 2nd row of seats in the cargo area? and where do you have the amp grounded (paint me a mental image)
The amp is mounted on the back by the tailgate. I drilled my own ground in to the metal on the back about 1.5 feet away from the amp. I scratched the surface up.
Before, it had two separate grounds. Now, I put both grounds in the same spot. (The amp has two remote wires, two positives, and two grounds)
The 0 gauge runs to a distribution block and then dual 4 gauge wires go to the amp.
Perhaps I just need to separate the two grounds?
when you say you scratched up the surface, did you scrape it down to clean shiny metal? did you use any sand paper? you might have thought it was metal but if it wasn't shiny then you still had some primer to take off.
you dont need to separate the grounds.
for testing purposes, do you have any spare 4 gauge? you can try to running a longer ground to somewhere closer to the battery. maybe somewhere under the back seat. -------------
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: July 02, 2009 at 1:18 AM
soundnsecurity wrote:
chargerondavins wrote:
soundnsecurity wrote:
no, i dont have an explorer, but i do have an 01 ranger. do you have the amp mounted behind the 2nd row of seats in the cargo area? and where do you have the amp grounded (paint me a mental image)
The amp is mounted on the back by the tailgate. I drilled my own ground in to the metal on the back about 1.5 feet away from the amp. I scratched the surface up.
Before, it had two separate grounds. Now, I put both grounds in the same spot. (The amp has two remote wires, two positives, and two grounds)
The 0 gauge runs to a distribution block and then dual 4 gauge wires go to the amp.
Perhaps I just need to separate the two grounds?
when you say you scratched up the surface, did you scrape it down to clean shiny metal? did you use any sand paper? you might have thought it was metal but if it wasn't shiny then you still had some primer to take off.
you dont need to separate the grounds.
for testing purposes, do you have any spare 4 gauge? you can try to running a longer ground to somewhere closer to the battery. maybe somewhere under the back seat.
I've used completely different ground wire and everything, the problem persists.
why would having it longer make a difference? The truck will be getting an alarm installed, I'll tell them to run longer ground. ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: July 02, 2009 at 5:48 AM
Longer grounds are not good. I think he may be questioning the integrity of the spot on the vehicle where you have it grounded. A longer wire to another spot (which may be a better ground) was just for testing to determine how well of a ground your current spot is. I did not read the entire topic, but have we checked the voltage at the amp to see how low it is going when the amp shuts off? Have we determined if the loss is occuring on the power or the ground side of the path? Meter set to DC volts, Red lead on power terminal of the amp. Black lead on the ground terminal of the amp. On the amp not at the chassis. Have someone play it to just below the point of cutting off, and notice the reading. Now move the black lead to the chassis of the car, prefferably not the same point that it is grounded at. Notice that reading too. Post both readings here.
Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: July 02, 2009 at 10:17 AM
i am an idiot wrote:
Longer grounds are not good. I think he may be questioning the integrity of the spot on the vehicle where you have it grounded. A longer wire to another spot (which may be a better ground) was just for testing to determine how well of a ground your current spot is.
I did not read the entire topic, but have we checked the voltage at the amp to see how low it is going when the amp shuts off? Have we determined if the loss is occuring on the power or the ground side of the path? Meter set to DC volts, Red lead on power terminal of the amp. Black lead on the ground terminal of the amp. On the amp not at the chassis. Have someone play it to just below the point of cutting off, and notice the reading. Now move the black lead to the chassis of the car, prefferably not the same point that it is grounded at. Notice that reading too. Post both readings here.
i dont think he has a meter, so thats whats making this so hard to figure out -------------
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: July 02, 2009 at 10:35 AM
That would make it a bit of a task. Now in hindsight, had we opted for the Dub's instead of the Davin's, maybe we could get a meter.
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: July 02, 2009 at 10:29 PM
i am an idiot wrote:
That would make it a bit of a task. Now in hindsight, had we opted for the Dub's instead of the Davin's, maybe we could get a meter.
I would also have the same rims as everyone else and they would be uglier.
My sponsors do my work for me, but this time they were having trouble figuring out the problem, so I opted for help.
Why would I buy a meter, for one time use? ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: July 02, 2009 at 10:39 PM
chargerondavins wrote:
Why would I buy a meter, for one time use?
I can't think of even a single reason.
Posted By: lspker
Date Posted: July 02, 2009 at 11:38 PM
For less than $10 at Walmart, you could always use it as a paper weight.
Posted By: chargerondavins
Date Posted: July 03, 2009 at 1:27 AM
lspker wrote:
For less than $10 at Walmart, you could always use it as a paper weight.
That's true, but I'm a broke college student, I waste all the money I do have on my cars... so now it's time for my education. Only 5 years left (doctorate) ------------- 2006 Dodge Charger show car
2003 Ford Exploder DD
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