big three
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=118527
Printed Date: April 25, 2024 at 8:44 AM
Topic: big three
Posted By: jizmak55
Subject: big three
Date Posted: December 14, 2009 at 6:18 PM
I was wastcing a yuobute video on how to install the big three i got the pos to batt, and neg to chasis installed in my car i cant get to the engine side of the engine to neg in the video i noticed the kid said and bolt on the engine will work is that true or does it have to be the same bolt that the old engine to batt connection is at. and what would happen if i just didnt do that one is that bad for my alt? will it give me more power? and will my headlights stop dimming? ------------- Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Replies:
Posted By: spmpdr
Date Posted: December 14, 2009 at 11:11 PM
first please proof read before you finalize your post!!!second what are you asking and third it does matter what bolt on the engine block you use (i gathered that much from your post)
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-A vision without a plan is just a hallucination-
Posted By: ianarian
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 5:24 AM
Meaning, a BIG 2?
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This is what I do for FUN!
Posted By: mrarff
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 1:12 PM
Hey guys, he doesn't need to proofread, this is the way that generation C thinks,talks,ect By the way Gen C is for CLUELESS
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"That'll get ya 10 in Leavenworth,11 in Twelveworth, or 5 & 10 in Woolworth". Groucho Marx
Posted By: xchrisx
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 4:16 PM
With any ground in general, the shorter, the better. Less resistance. Also, the thicker the wire the better as well, again less resistance. This is what you are aiming for, less resistance = good, more resistance = bad! Just remember less is more when grounding. Also, no need to bash the guy, although jizmak55 you should indeed proof read your entry first. The site is here to help and thats what jizmak55 needs.
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BP
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 4:36 PM
yea i forgot to proofread i really didnt think i deserved to be responded to like that i have the upmost respect for you guys and what you do and im comin to you for your knowledge not disrespect. i simply asked how important the battery negative to engine wire is in the big 3 because it is not easy to get to in my car (almost imposible because im not a mechanic). I also saw a yuobute video of a kid doing the big three and i caught him saying you can run that wire from the battery negatvi to any bolt on the engine it dosnt have to run to the same bolt as the battery negative. And the final thing was if i do this 3 step will it make my light dimming go away because everything else in my car is grounded at the strut tower and its my understanding that thats the best place to ground. Please respond constructivly and not like a 2 year old because my 2 year old could make fun of me better than you did. Thanks ------------- Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 4:38 PM
it also wont let me spell yuobute corectlly its censoring it ------------- Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: j.reed
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 4:52 PM
We have no way of telling you if the vehicle will stop dimming. You have not told us your vehicle info nor your system info. We have no idea what your alt is capable of putting out nor what kind of draw demand your audio system has.
If headlights are dimming. Your first step is to do the big 3. You will need it for a H/O alt anyway. Usually headlight dimming is telling you you don't have enough power being made to support the draw or the vehicle wire cannot support. If it is slight dimming the big three may clear it up. If you are trying to draw more than the alt can produce then you are going to need a H/O alt as well as the big 3. ------------- 
Posted By: xchrisx
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 4:55 PM
No problem with the spelling errors, but most people, as you can tell, get frustrated when people start using slang for words or do not properly type a sentence, or even when someone pieces sentences together and its hard to understand. But going back at the people is just making them happy because I am sure they intended to bash you and it worked, just blow it off. We are all here to help you out. I have enclosed a link below to an amazing write up on the Big 3 and answers pretty much any questions you may have regard it.
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp~TID~73496~PN~1
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BP
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 5:51 PM
I am really sorry i posted all of my info on a different topic i completely forgot to post it on this one. I apologize. I have an optima yellow top battery. A db electrical 200a alternator. A sony head unit. 0 gauge running to a distabution block, from there 4 gauge running to 2 cheap xplod amps. The amps are pushing 2 pioneer premier TS-W3002D4 subs, they run at 3000max 1000 rms. There in a sealed box. and i have 2 of the big three ( hence my initial question). My car is a 99 3.4l grand am
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Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: bigtime_077
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 6:40 PM
I hope I am going to answer your original question but I do not believe that you need to use the original grounding spot because the whole engine is going to be "electrically" connected since it is a ferrous metal. Now maybe I'm wrong but you could connect the ground wire to the engine mount which I believe that on that car with a 3.4L there will be two of them between the motor and radiator near the top of the engine. Now I believe that the engine mount will be best since it will be connected directly to the engine block which is the largest mass of metal in any auto. Hope this will help. Mr. Big
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM
thank you im hopin a couple more people say the same thing. I just wanna be pretty sure before i go doing it. I appreciate your feedback. ------------- Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: tommy...
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 8:04 PM
Proofreading helps bigtime...! Some just skip over posts that are long run-on sentences...etc...! So anyway it helps...! Are you asking about the ground from the engine to chassis...Some say the alt case is the best ground...I.E. a alternator bolt etc...You can do this wire and then check its resistance with a DMM...But i dont think you are going to hurt anything...Just might have to find another location...There is a good sticky on grounds and using a DMM...This might assist you also with the grounds for your amp...And tell you what the voltage is dropping to and where...I guess...Lets go ahead and get a meter and do some testing...ey...?
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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 15, 2009 at 8:18 PM
The big three consists of= positive battery terminal to alternator. Negative battery terminal to chasis. And negative battery terminal to engine correct? im talking about the last one negative battery terminal to engine. I cant get to where the factory cable connects to the engine from the negative terminal. would it be ok to hook that wire from the negative terminal to another bolt on the engine or does it have to go were the factory wire is hooked to the engine because the bolt its hooked to dosnt look special just looks like a random bolt. thank you ------------- Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 4:43 AM
No - the additional cables can go anywhere.
Or rather - they do NOT have to be where the standard cables are. (That was one thing I liked with one Big3 upgrade description - do not change, just ADD - hence in principle NOT impacting any vehicle warranty etc.)
I've seen cables from gearbox bolts to gearbox crossmember chassis or other chassis bolts; cables bridging rubber engine mounts, etc.
The more the merrier. (Assuming you do not believe in ground-loops in cars etc. Although that's been on my "to-do" list for decades, I have difficulty envisaging earth/ground loops in most vehicles.)
And there is one warning - do not assume metal to metal conducts. Maybe the gearbox does not have a strong electrical bond to the engine. I know that's had to believe, but I have heard.... (and no - it wasn't "off the net"!)
I had an over-voltage problem with my older "externally regulated" alternator. It turned out that my "solid" battery and chassis terminals with their highly torqued 14mm (9/16") threaded bolt to the engine block had gone high resistance and was dropping up to 2 Volts!
I now have the battery- go to a starter motor mounting bolt (since that is my biggest load & I have no big audio system). And there is a separate engine to body cable somewhere (maybe the other starter bolt?).
Audio systems are interesting ito design. At least you have a decent alternator! (I'm a bit tired of people suggesting bigger batteries to makeup for undersized alternators - especially when the amps do NOT use SMPS systems (DC-DC converters), or when they suggest AGMs (in the engine bay etc)!)
In your case you really want the best cabling from the alternator to the amps. (The battery isn't that important.)
And although I have always reckoned chassis/body grounding is more than enough, someone has just posted differently so I am currently (no pun) querying (no pun).
But we can tackle that later if needed.
I have also recently posted herein about minimising fusing for "over-rated" cable runs... I'll try to locate if you don't find them.
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 10:42 AM
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM
thank you guys i love this site your alot of help
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Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM
I ended up running from my battery negative to my alternator mount bolt. Lights are still dimmin though idk i guess im gonna have to give in and go to a pro. I had my car idlein and i was playin some pretty heavy bass notes my cap says i was droppin the whole way down to 10v on long ones. i could try one more thing since everyone says the alternator is absolute ground would it be crazy to run my ground from my amps through my car to an alternator mounting bolt????? ------------- Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 5:48 PM
As I said above, I reckon a dedicated ground cable from alt (or batts) to the amps should not be necessary. However this assumes all inter-connections and cables are sound (no pun).
IE - amp-cable-terminal-panel/bolt-nextPanel-maybeChassis-bolt/panel-terminal-cable-alternatorCase or (panel)-block-altBracket-altCase, and Batt(-) to body or Batt(-) to block etc.
It just needs a hi-impedance connection at any of the above junctions to cause voltage drops. Even cable to terminal joins,
However, the fact that your lights are dimming means that there is a voltage dip (d'oh!) and - if there is no common supply path between the lights & the amps - that means your alternator is not keeping up. Nor probably your battery....
"Common supply path" means (f.ex, say) a cable from the alternator that then splits to the amps and the lights.
The alternator may be supplying 14.4V, but the sub-thump causes a bigger voltage drop across the common cable, hence the lights dip too.
Though most times the common supply path is not in the hot feed (+12V), it can be in the ground circuits.
Hence why ground circuits are often "over done" to ensure their voltage drops are far less than the hot wiring.
Before I continue (Dog help us all!), can you mount a battery near your amps?
Ideally you would move your AGM (yellow top) next to your amps and have VERY heavy wiring from yellow-top + & - to the amps(s).
You would then have a "normal" battery in the engine bay (since the yellow-top there is useless from an audio point of view).
Else you could rewire from the near-amp-mounted battery to the starter motor and alternator using the existing audio wiring, but a separate engine battery is better. (What's another $100 compared to the rest? Plus you can have independent batteries to ensure cranking.)
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 9:17 PM
I do have another battery if i put the yellow top in the trunk how would i charge it? How would the big three even work then? would my big three still be running to the cranking battery? ------------- Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 9:21 PM
Wow im dumb could it be that i upgraded the big three with 4gauge and i have 0awg running to my amps? ------------- Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: December 16, 2009 at 11:48 PM
Sure can, and probably is.
Charging is easy if you use something like ...
(from another recent on-site OldFart reply)
The aux battery would be your yellow-top in the trunk. (Enclosed batteries MUST be sealed else vented to the outside.)
It is only connected to the alternator (and engine-bay battery) when the alternator is charging.
Otherwise it is independent, hence NOT draining your engine-bay battery.
The "charge lamp terminal" (aka circuit) could be any "over voltage" sensing circuit.
The aux relay as shown will probably have to drive another relay that is rated to carry at least your alternator current (instead of itself being that "heavy" relay).
This assumes limited current sourcing capability from the voltage sensing or charge-lamp circuit.
The circuit shown has been used on 1980s - 1990s Bosch & Hitachi 2-wire alternators (70-120A) which drive both the standard charge lamp (250mA) and the added 68-Ohm relay solenoid (~200mA) of the 60A Aux-relay. (I suspect similar alternators could sink/source up to 500mA, but that might be risky.)
Anyhow, see what you think and we can develop the idea.
With the AGM next to the Amps, you can sell your cap to fund a dash mounted voltmeter and maybe your next battery, or more cabling etc. Maybe even magnetic breakers that can also double as the heavy 200+ Amp relays (aka contactors).
Ah yes - the ultimate zero-drop high current protection and control system. Fuses? Thermal breakers? How primitive!
Posted By: jizmak55
Date Posted: December 17, 2009 at 10:30 PM
haha i kinda get it im gonna try the 0awg first and mess around with some grounds. if that dont work the optimas deffinitly goin in the back.
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Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
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