big 12 volt power issues

OK, so I need some help if anyone could please enlighten me. I am attempting to install a two amplifier system in my Infiniti G35 Coupe.

OK, so far I have 2 gauge wire running back to my Kinetik 600khc battery in the trunk. But if I don't drive the car for 24 hours or so the battery(s) is too drained to start the next day. Do I need a battery isolator?

I am running 2 JL Audio amps. 1 250/1 and 1 300/4. Another thing about these, I have blown almost every interior speaker already... I think I may be overpowering them. It doesn't seem like they are getting to much power but, the proof is in the pudding. I have fried several voice coils at this point. There are six speakers and I wanted to run all six on this four channel amp. I was going to add some tweeters up front to give a 2 ohm load to all four channels, thus creating 8 speakers (some are components but lets not split hairs). I am so frustrated at this point. I have spent way to much money to back out now, and also have trashed the old speakers anyway.

If anyone has any thoughts I am willing to listen.

Thank you in advance for your time.


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G 35 Driver

DId you recently install an alarm with starter kill?

i've had cap's drain my battery's also but not overnight!! .. is there a battery up front and then also a battery in the trunk?? hence the isolator?? if it's a two batt system one may be fubar'd and the good one keep's tryin to charge the bad one.

also maybe bad ground's??? big three upgrade is another option!!... I also have the 300/4 but the 500/1 instead of the 250/1.. and I just aquired another 500/1, my brother gave me a used redtop battery so I through that in the trunk I can still get the light's dimming with two batt's and the stock 70 amp alternator. hope you find your problem!!

no

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G 35 Driver

I am running a POWER AND GROUND, both 2 gauge to the trunk (that is what Kinetik tech support said to do, I know sounds crazy). I never heard of it before either.

I don't believe I have any ground problems.

It is a 2007 G 35. It has a stock 110 amp alternator. I want upgraded one of the BIG 3. I added a 4 gauge (cable from Pep Boys) ground to the engine block from the main battery, there was just a puny 6 gauge wire going from the main battery to the side of the car, not exactly the best ground I ever saw. I am hesitant to run another 4 or 2 gauge to the alternator, cause it is so frackin far down in the engine compartment, and hard to get to...

Help!

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G 35 Driver

Also, should I NOT be doubling up the speakers on channels to the amp?

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G 35 Driver

Well is your battery isolator connected right and do you have the right batteries? Do you have a main starter battery and a deep cycle battery? It sounds like your equipment is mismatched you really need to pay attention to all the specs.

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**ADVANCED MECP CERTIFIED

gl35]D wrote:

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I need a battery isolator?

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jeremytravis wrote:

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Well is your battery isolator connected right and do you have the right batteries?

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...but I never pay attention to what people are typing... ...it gets in the way of my head. (Must be a BOOK cert...)

He's asking if he should GET an isolator.

My response is no. My response is his, though:
MATCH THE BATTERIES! One in front, and one in back. Wired in parallel. Your batteries being mismatched is causing the parasitics between them to try to keep each other charged, with your exact situation being the result. Multiple battery installations work perfectly fine, as long as the batteries chosen are the same type, technology, capacity, and age. You'll also be replacing two of them at the same time for the rest of your life. You should have upgraded your alternator instead of adding that battery and cap.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Does the 250/1 have a signal sensing option like the 500/1?  If so, is signal sensing turned on?

the 250/1 does have signal sensing. according to the manual at jlaudio.com anyway's. the 250/1 in my opinion wouldn't keep up to the 300/4 with my 500/1 I had barely enough low's, the 300/4 will handle 2ohm load's on all it's channel's and put out 75 watt's to each channel reguardless of ohm load 2 3 or 4.

my 300/4 was able to kill the stock speakers in my civic also it did eventually only blow one speaker so i replaced them all. either way you may have to up the highpass cross over when your putting so much power to stock speakers. also if grab all aftermarket speakers even from ebay you won't be sorry!! it sound's so good!!... hope you fix your battery drain problem. maybe disco the back battery for the night and see if that helps the drain situation. a little more feedback would be good too.

If you are using the signal sensing feature on the 250/1, try switching it off when you park the vehicle.  It is very sensitive to any voltage change it sees and could be turning the amps on with no signal.  Both of your amps idling could easily drain the battery in 24 hours. 

when installing my second 500/1 I used the signal sensing on the first amp and ran the remote to the second amp ( signal sensing won't work on two amps in a row, or may but the jl manual say's not to )   either way I found it to be a pretty big pain the but because you had to have the volume so high to get the first amp to turn on!! basically if I set the volume so that my neighbor's wouldn't be wized the sub amps would turn off.

I have the signal turned sensing OFF.

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G 35 Driver

so what else do you want us to tell you?? a few of us have given you quite a few options and trick's to maybe fix or diagnose your car, but you don't give us any feedback. signal sensing off. ok... what else have you tried. did you disco the back battery yet?? sounds to me like battery drain from the other crappy battery. I wrote a moderatly sized post asking questions and giving a few suggestion's, and you just say ..... " no " ..... ????? are you fixed then??? signal sensing is off ... must have fixed it ;)

What does disco the back battery mean? I have taken it out and now I have no power problems. but that is not what I was trying to accomplish. So a battery isolator is not the way to go here?

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G 35 Driver

sorry disco is my short version of disconnect, which you did. you may want to put the better of the two battery's in the engine compartment. otherwise yes definitely a battery isolation relay would be a good thing. Just run the isolation relay off a switched power supply so that battery is only connected while the ignition is on. You could also measure the resting voltage's on both battery's, by the sounds of your problem's you will have a significant difference. do your light's dim when the bass hits with the current setup??

also there is a stinger 200 amp battery isolation relay which I think is just a borg warner 3098. at the local parts store I was able to get her down to about 45.00 canadian for it. but before I buy that I have a couple big relay's out of a ford diesel used for running the glow plug's and such so I'm going to try them first. just some more idea's for ya. either way glad you isolated (excuse the pun) the problem. :)

Can they have Bernanke too...?(haemphyst...?)

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

What haemphyst said about parallel batteries is correct, but in practice even with matched batteries there can be problems - typically temperature for enginebay & boot installations.
Also if there is some failure of one battery, it's wasteful having to ditch the other and buy a new matched set.

The advantages with a "charging" isolator is that there is no need for matched batteries, and a faulty battery will not drain the other(s) (except where the charge cannot keep up with the fault - but above 70-100A that's usually a hot battery cum fire etc).

The charging isolator is merely on that interconnects the two batteries when the vehicle is charging.
They are usually a plain relay controlled by the alternator's charge lamp output, else an overvoltage sensor.   

For big alternators powering a big aux/audio battery, usually it is the primary/main (enginebay) battery that is isolated with the alternator feeding the aux/boot battery. (That's to enable common 60A or 140A relays to be used. Otherwise relays and cabling needs to match the current demand of the audio.)

There can be an issue as to how much the primary battery feeds to the aux/audio battery, but with circuit breakers and that the primary is usually a "standard" wet-cell battery and the aux is an AGM/VRLA, it's usually not a problem (unless either is very discharged).

So my alternator is 110 amp. My main batter is probably around 600-800, my auxiliary/audio battery is 850 amp.

I need to get a battery isolator to match the alternator then?

So 100 amp isolator would not be sufficient? I need a 110? Or more?

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G 35 Driver

tommy... wrote:

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Can they have Bernanke too...?(haemphyst...?)

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Dammit... I KNEW that I had forgotten somebody! LOL

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

the borg warner r3098 i mentioned earlier is i'm pretty sure the same one that stinger uses just put's there label on it. It is rated for 200 amp continuous use.

So just go to Kragen and pick one up?

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G 35 Driver

Thanks. I appreciate the advice everyone.

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G 35 Driver

I found a PAC 200 amp relay that looks like it may work, is PAC ok?

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G 35 Driver

You need to find out for sure that it is something related to the amps and rear capacitor before you spend the money on the PAC-200.  Yes Pac products are reliable.

No rear cap, just a battery.

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G 35 Driver

gl35]I wrote:

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need to get a battery isolator to match the alternator then?

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No - it depends on your setup and desire.

But for just charging the 2nd battery, 100A is ok.
But if the main battery supplements the aux battery for demand above the alternators "reserve" capacity, then current is (or may be) higher.

You battery current capacity is largely irrelevant - it is a function of the load (amp) current. Ideally the alternator is above to supply full load current to keep voltage above battery discharge voltages.

https://bcae1.com/battiso.htm ... https://bcae1.com/chargin2.htm ...some reading on isolators and such...

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

So a 100 amp isolator incorporated into the system would alleviate my woes then?

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G 35 Driver

I personally think so!! especially with only a 300/4 and a 250/1 !! I think at peak power even if the alt can't cover the max current demand you wouldn't have full amperage coming only from the back battery I think both's batt's would assist depending on resting voltages. (which should be close to 12.5ish) I think 100amp is plenty.

i'm pretty sure at with rough calculations a 500/1 pulls 34.7 amps at 14.4 putting out 500 watts. not including efficiency loses, which are quite bad with the 500/1 and technically the 250/1 compared to other class d amps, I think with 80% efficiency which is high it should've pulled 43 amps so with a 250/1 you'll be pulling quite a bit less than that. one good battery and the stock alt should be more than enough too :) don't think your putting a winch or a snow plow or anything hehe :)

So maybe I should just run the Kinetik battery as my main and loose the two battery configuration all together then?

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G 35 Driver

Keep the second battery - it is worthwhile and almost essential (and beats a cap!).
Keep in mind your original question was about a discharged battery - hence some sort of drain on your system.
The isolation relay isolates the main battery from such discharge.

Your alternator seems large enough (batteries are not discharging during normal use when charging), so it is a load fault - the amps are staying on, or something else.


Tommy's bcae1 references are good and reiterate the basic things that I have said (I add extra detail, and the odd opinion/experience/reality).