lower load or more power
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=12059
Printed Date: May 14, 2025 at 4:29 PM
Topic: lower load or more power
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Subject: lower load or more power
Date Posted: April 10, 2003 at 11:16 PM
I am debating something which is better 2 12" subs getting 150 watts rms a piece@4ohms, or wiring them in to an 8 ohm load and running the amp bridged for 400 watts rms. The amp is on 2ohm stable in stereo therefore i cannot 2ohm wiring in bridged(protection comes on). So I need some opinions. Which will be louder?sound better?Most clean? Thanks for Info. Nick ------------- Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Replies:
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 10, 2003 at 11:26 PM
You won't lose much SQ by bridging. The only drawback is you will be in Mono instead of Stereo (when bridging you usually will receive Left input signal only, instead of Left and Right inputs from the headunit). You'll get your amps max output when you bridge, and with what you specified you would be getting apx. 200watts/sub instead of 150.
Going from 150 to 200 watts will make it louder. But to answer the rest of you questions (sound better and cleaner) we need to know what the make and model numbers are of your subs and amp. ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 10, 2003 at 11:43 PM
Well I was wondering about the bearing resistance has on it. I thought lower resistance louder music. or something to that effect. Pioneer GM-X972 and tsw305c. I was just curious?
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 12:29 AM
You are correct. Lower ohms=less resistance=more power output(watts) and allows the amp to run more efficiently.
However, you are seriously underpowering your subs. They are 400RMS and 800Peak, yet you are only throwing 150-200 watts RMS to each of them!
Something else to consider is your amp is 400x1 bridged at 4ohms, not 8. It should still be stable, but you might not even get the 400x1 if you wire in series for 8 ohms.
If you just bought the hardware, I'd return it for a 400x2@4ohm or 800x1@2ohm amp. I think you got hosed on your amp, because you'll never see the 800 watts that it boasts. Sorry dude ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 12:35 AM
Yes I Understand the output I didn't really get hosed though cause I got a really good price on the amp. I am considering purchasing another of the same and running one amp bridged to each sub that would be exact power. The reason I went with it was because it is pioneer's most powerful amplifier i could find and In this particular vehicle all components match and they sound really well together. everything from the hu, tweeters, 6X9's, everything. So I was trying to stick with pioneer.
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 12:48 AM
Yea, if you got another GM-X972 then you would be right where you should be at 400 watts RMS per sub.
I used to think that having all the same components would be cool and sound really well together too. But I got tired of limiting my options, and realized that you don't have to have all the same manufacturer to get the best sound. Right now I have Sony (CDX-M610 Head Unit), 2 Pioneer 5.25" coaxial speakers (TS-A1365), 2 Pioneer 6x8 coaxial speakers (TS-A6867), 2 Rockford Fosgate RFP3412 HE subs (sealed enclosure), 1 Rockford Fosgate Power 500bd amp, 1 Kenwood KAC-649S amp, and a 1 farod ohm Rockford Fosgate cap.
I'd like to eventually have all Rockford, but I doubt it will happen ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 1:05 AM
Yes I really like RF stuff too, they were the1st subs I owned back in 1997. Now I have rf subs in two of my other vehicles, In my 1990 jeep cherokee I have two of the same subs you have 3412's and a planet audio amp P2100, a jvc hu, and sony 3way speakers. And in my 2000 Accord I have 2 RFz 2412's and rfp200s amp, aiwa hu, and polk speakers . I was trying to stay with pioneer in my 4runner and have done a pretty good job I have deh-7400 hu, 4way 6x9's, 2way 4's, 4 tweeters, 2 subs, and amps gm-x972(subs), gm-374(tweeters). My sister seems to want to stick with Kenwood in her 2000 cougar It has a kenwood excelon hu, amp, and subs. And pretty soon speakers and tweeters I'm sure.
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 1:27 AM
So I guess what I was getting at was most efficient and best sounding way to run them for right now with the power from that particular amp. I couldn't find a higher power pioneer amplifier but if one is out there let me know. Thanks
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 1:29 AM
Sounds cool. Here's my "if I win the lottery and the whole world can kiss my a$$" system from Rockford...
RFX9420 headunit
2 FNX2514 5.25" Component speakers w/ silk tweeters & seperate crossovers
2 FRC4368 6x8" triaxial speakers
2 RFD2212 Power HX2 subs
1 Power 750x amp
2 Power 500bd amps
2 1-farod ohm caps ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 1:36 AM
Sorry 'bout that, you posted while I was typing my last one so the sequence looks screwy!
Try bridging at 8 ohms. Since your amp is stable at 4 ohms bridged, an 8 ohm load should not hurt it. If it doesn't sound any better then you can go back to 1 sub per channel.
The only other amp I could find from Pioneer larger than yours was their GM-D500M. It's a mono amp stable @ 2 ohms and retails for around $320. Specs are...
300x1@4ohms RMS 600x1@4ohms Peak
600x1@2ohms RMS 1000x1@2ohms Peak
Since you have 2 4ohm SVC's, you could wire in parallel for the 2ohm load and throw apx 300RMS-500Peak to each of your subs. ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 1:47 AM
Yes I had thought here recently of redoing the Accord in RF stuff and in the end replacing those rfz2412's with HX2'sThis was the setup I was looking at getting: HU-RFX9110 AM/FM CD/MP3 Player 2-HX2 RFD2212 12" DVC Woofers 1-Power P1000.2 2-Channel Amplifier 2pr-FNX3401X Fanatic X Tweeters 1pr-FRC3369 6x9" 3-Way Speakers 1pr-FRC3206 6.5" 2-Way Speakers 1-Punch 500X 4-Channel Amplifier It would take me a little while as you know the price tags on RF goods aren't very cheap. ------------- Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 1:57 AM
I thought about a second pair of tweeters for the rear, but I'm not sure how it would through the acoustics off (normally highs/mids up front, mids at the rear seat, and subs in the trunk/hatch)
I've got a second set at home already (original parts from my old Mach460 system) that I might hook back up straight from the headunit with bass blockers. ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 2:12 AM
I don't have tweeters in either one of my cars so I have no I dea on their sound yet, but I have tweeters on the pilars of both my 4runner(pioneer) and my cherokee(polk) The new tweeters in my 4runner are very loud the amp is about 1/2 way up and I have to adjust the hu. The polks in my cherokee are on a profile small 4 ch they are almost just right. It has extremely good sound because it is a 2 door and I put dynamat in the rear after the doors. The only thing bad about it is the profile amp and the hu is kinda out dated, not to mention I bought the tweeters almost 2 yrs ago. But as far as bass it reacts good off of the sealed glass windows, and I have never had any complaints about the amp or subs. Which I bought both new about a year ago. The sony speakers do ok but are not my number one choice.
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 2:43 AM
I'm underpowering my 5.25's and 6x8's right now. The Kenwood amp I'm using was originally bought to power some subs, but got replaced by my Power 500bd. I don't have the $'s to get another amp, but I have another Kenwood 4-channel amp lying around. I might have to hook it up with my other 4-channel Kenwood and bridge both. That should get my mids and highs sounding sweet.
I think my headunit is the 1st to go though. The vibration from the bass gets so intense that it makes the CD skip! So if I can't figure out what's going on, then I'll have to replace it ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 3:01 AM
I haven't had much experience with sony HU's I had one in a explorer I used to own it was an explod i don't remember what model it was it never gave me any problems.That head unit you have is a pretty popular choice where I live or at least it used to be, I can recall at least 3 of my friends buying those. I actually had a chance to get one for 150.00 and let it go cause I got a better deal on a pioneer deh-6400(85.00). I think the next HU I buy (which i am not really need ing one but who know.) will be either new Alpine or Pioneer Priemer. I was hoping to find a nice double din to take up the compartment in my 4 runner, but all the DD I can find are like base models with no frills just tape/cd. But I also do all of my purchasing on-line. Because the only stereo shop where I live has an owner on a power trip, selling "legacy" amps a little above retail and everything at about 50% higher than msrp.
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 3:07 AM
It was pretty popular down here too. It works great, it just can't handle the bass vibrations. Close to 700 watts is enough to shake just about anything up! I used to have an Alpine headunit that was tits, but the CD player finaly crapped out. I would have gotten another one, but the Sony was cheaper and I was on a tight budget. What did you think of the GM-D500M I linked to earlier? ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 3:20 AM
I looked at it before purchasing the gm-x972 and probably the only thing that did stop me from getting it was the price I can get 2 gm-x 972 a little under the cheapest I can find the GM-D500M. I do like the design and the Idea of a class d instead of a/b. And being stable down to 1 ohm instead of 2 stereo and 4 mono. But I got the gm-x972 for $100.00 new so for the money, and the brand, thats decent. A friend of mine purchased a Legacy 600 watt (the dinky chrome ones) amp at our local shop and paid 129.00 plus tax. for a Legacy..And all it is, is a distortion maker. I will probably mess with it a bit tommorrow and decide if I want to go ahead and order another gm-x972
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 3:24 AM
Yea, price can deffinately play a role  I paid around $600 for my RF Power 500bd. I can get them cheaper online, but it wouldn't have the RF factory waranty.
I work 3rd shift so I don't have a choice, but what the hell are you doing up this late on a Friday morning! ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 3:31 AM
It's our spring break and instead of going somewhere like everyone else I opted to stay home and save countless dollars. Kinda started regreting it about wed. but it gives me a chance to get some stuff accomplished. But I'll mess with it today and post a follow up.
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 3:33 AM
Cool. Good luck ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 10:33 PM
Well messed around with it bridging and unbridging to see what sounded best and after about an hour of that I believe it is still getting more power in stereo mode. I think I am just going to have to break down and buy another gmx972. Which I think for 200.00 thats a decent amount of clean power besides being 2 amps.
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 10:39 PM
I was worried about that. I didn't think your amp would have a problem handeling an 8ohm bridged load, but I wasn't sure about the final RMS rating. I was hoping it would have at least been higher than 300, but it doesn't seem to be the case. Once you get that other amp you'll be set (at least until the next upgrade  ) ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 10:44 PM
Yep that's just the thing my little sister just got home from the beach and one of the first things she said was that she wanted tweeters and an amp. So more to order and more to install. Do you know of any decent to very good kenwood tweeters and a 4ch amp to power them. She's on the matching kick now too. I haven't really researched Kenwood very much.
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 11:35 PM
Yea, my wife just got back from the beach too, but I found out that she had company  Anyway...
The Kenwood amp that I have is decent, it just isn't strong enough to run all my components. It would be strong enough to run 4 tweeters though (KAC-649S). It's only 30x4@4 ohms, 40x4@2ohms, and 80x2@4ohms bridged. But MSRP is only $200-250
Kenwood makes 3 models of tweeters right now...
KFC-XT14: Titanium, 3/4", 200 watt, 4ohm, $150
KFC-T204: PEI balanced, 3/4", 150 watt, 4ohm, $70-100
KFC-ST30: Add-on, 1", 120 watt, 4ohm, $50-100
The first 2 come with seperate crossovers, while the 3rd one has a built in filter.
Depending on how loud she wants the tweeters (and I assuming you said she wanted 4?) then you might look at the KAC-849 to power them. It's 50x4@4ohms, 75x4@2ohms, and 150x2@4ohms bridged. MSRP is $350-450
Or does she want a 4-channel amp to power 2 tweeters and 2 front component speakers? ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 11, 2003 at 11:59 PM
Sorry to hear about the company... But as far as the tweeters go 4 tweeters and a 4ch amp at least in the upper 2/3's of the tweeters rms@4ohms. She hasn't really invested in speakers yet, she got the car for christmas and she's in high school so her funds are limited, all of the mods so far are my contributions hu, amp, and subs. She did buy the "neon glo string light" but that doesn't really count cause I had to install it too. Anyways like I said I don't have alot of experience w/ kenwood.Any comments? good bad or ugly? ------------- Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: April 12, 2003 at 12:17 AM
Unfortunately I haven't used their tweeters before, and I don't want to give anyone an unjustified opinion. Their amps are reliable though, but not as strong (power rating wise) as some other manufactures. That's the biggest drawback to staying with only 1 company ------------- Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: AL4^RuNNer
Date Posted: April 12, 2003 at 1:18 AM
Yep I believe after the 4runner I'm done with one company set-ups, I like variety I also like mixing and matching for optimum performance. There are however a couple of brands I have been or been meaning to research and those are planet audio and JL, (particularly12w7). Although I tend to stay away from the bass only oriented systems, and comp stuff. I strive to get excellent all around sound. Which my pioneer setup has that, thats why i wasn't to worried about giving the subs more juice. I like for the music to sound like I am frontstage at the concert or right in the studio w/ them. It also is a benefit, when it comes around to be able to turn the gain up and blow away some of my friends setups. But other than that I don't really need earth rumbling power.
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Eat, Drink, & Be Merry.......
Posted By: Tcole
Date Posted: April 12, 2003 at 10:34 AM
It sounds like your only problem is your amp.
That amp wont let you bridge mono with a 2 ohm load.
You are stuck running them mono in series or running each sub on each channel, which wont wont be in stereo anyways because low frequency tracks on recordings are in mono and will be underpowered.
You could risk all and try a mono parallel hook up(risk blowing the amp).
If you can swing it buy another one of those amps.
But the price of those 2 amps could have bought you a kick ass amp that will do what you want it to do(2ohms bridged).
Hope this helps
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