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my setup

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=124172
Printed Date: July 30, 2021 at 1:45 AM


Topic: my setup

Posted By: Mikelbolton
Subject: my setup
Date Posted: October 28, 2010 at 8:58 PM

I caught an awesome deal at Best Buy, (2) 10" Alpine Type R subwoofers for $70(SWR1042D). I jumped on it. I have a ported enclosure in my truck. I also bought a cheesy little pioneer amp (GM-D8500M).

I've come to realize that when I seen the specs on these subs, that this amp is not going to properly power these subs.

I'm looking to get a decent amp that will power this system, but not trying to spend too much. I drive this truck maybe once a week.

Please provide some feedback. I haven't done any car stereos in years, and I'm a supervisor working 80+ hrs a week, so I don't have time to do much research on this matter currently.

Thanks,

-Mike



Replies:

Posted By: agraves1
Date Posted: October 28, 2010 at 9:30 PM
The 1000 watt Alpine amp would work pretty well, but how much were you planning on spending.

And that is a crazy deal. I work at Best Buy and do not even get deals like that.

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MECP Advanced
Make your life easier and buy a DMM.




Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: October 28, 2010 at 10:23 PM

First of all, supervisor or not, you are working too much.  That said, try to supervise yourself a few less hours so you can enjoy a little of your life that's flying by....

Next, work on building the proper enclosure for your subs.  Just because you already happen to have an enclosure doesn't mean it's the right one for your subs. 

I edited this post to look up the sub model number, which you were on top of things to give in your initial post, and saw that they are dual 4 ohms.  That puts a 4 ohm load on your amp when you have a pair.  Your amp is a mono amp that you should be loading with two ohms (no reason not to, for subs).  Trade out for a two channel amp and look at bridged configuration.  But in all reality, the properly sized box and proper installation with damped sheet metal panels is going to make or break this sub system.

Note:  How often you drive the vehicle doesn't mean anything.  And welcome to the 12volt forums.



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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.




Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: October 28, 2010 at 10:59 PM
welcome to the forum, lets start out by asking exactly what make and model is your truck. as Stevdart said you can go with a 2 channel amp that will give you about 500 watts per channel @ 2ohms. or you can go with a MONO class D amp that will give you about 1000Wx1 at 1 ohm. these two configurations are technically the same, power wise, but a class D mono amp should stay cooler that your average 2 channel class A/B stereo amp.

for the price, i like autotek amps even though they haven't been the same since they did away with the Mean Machine series, but i still install their normal amps and usually dont have any problems. whatever you can get local will probably be your best bet. just make sure whatever amp you get is around 1000 Watts RMS, not MAX at 1 ohm mono or 4 ohm bridged.

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Posted By: mrm1776
Date Posted: October 28, 2010 at 11:24 PM

agraves1 wrote:

The 1000 watt Alpine amp would work pretty well, but how much were you planning on spending.

And that is a crazy deal. I work at Best Buy and do not even get deals like that.

You're talking about the MRP-M1000 amp and it absolutely will not push two Alpine Type R subs. That amp will push 1000 watts at 2 ohms, but those subs are 500W a piece and since they are DVC running them together would put them in either a 1 or 4 ohm load. Obviously, you won't get the full 1000 watts out of it at 2 ohms since 2 ohms isn't an option with those subs running in a dual configuration. In a 4 ohm configuration, that amp pushes out 500-600 watts RMS, which is not enough to run those subs.

Do NOT recommend this amp for someone getting two Type Rs. Best Buy doesn't really carry any amps that are 1 ohm stable anymore. We used to carry the RF which was 1 ohm stable at 1000 watts, but no more RF for Best Buy. The Kenwood 9205 (not sure about exact model number) that Best Buy carries claims to be 1 ohm stable, but I've seen problems with running it at a 1 ohm load so I don't recommend it to anyone wanting a 1 ohm amp.

What I typically do for customers that want two Type Rs is to set them up with two MRP-M500s as well. Works like a champ and almost perfectly matched power ratings. Plus you get to get a little more money by selling them a dual amp kit and a fused distribution block.

To the OP, I would tell you to either get a good 1 ohm stable amp or get two amps that will push out at least 500 watts RMS at 2 ohms. Keep in mind, that most amps that are pushing 1000+ watts at 1 ohm aren't going to be on the cheap side, and if it IS cheap, then well... you usually get what you pay for. Not saying there aren't good deals out there at times, but do your research before throwing down your money.



-------------
MECP Basic Installation Tech
Certification ID: CEA195600
Pioneer AVIC-X920BT
Polk Audio DXi 6500 - front
Rockford Fosgate Power T1693 - rear
Alpine MRP-F300
Alpine MRP-M500
Alpine SWR-1242D




Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: October 28, 2010 at 11:42 PM
soundstream makes a great 1000 Watt amp the TRX1000D. it's 1000 watts at 1 ohm, really good build quality and a little know secret about them is that they will run at a 1/2 ohm for a few minutes which is great for a burp spl setup on a budget.

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Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: October 29, 2010 at 12:05 PM
Look at Stevdarts post. Before you even consider an amp you have to address the enclosure. What if is a single cab truck and he can only use a small sealed enclosure? What is it's an SUV and he can build the most efficient large ported enclosure possible? One thousand watts in the sealed enclosure will not go as loud as 250 watts in the ported box. So recommending specific amps at this point is completely meaningless. By the way, do you guys know the differance between 500 and 1000 WRMS is 3 db?

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There is no such thing as free installation!




Posted By: agraves1
Date Posted: October 29, 2010 at 12:33 PM
Yea that was my bad. I was really thinking and I was kinda tipsy at the time of the post. Lol. So yea, I completely withdraw my post. Definitely do not get the alpine amp I was referring to.



-------------
MECP Advanced
Make your life easier and buy a DMM.




Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: October 29, 2010 at 8:51 PM
tcss] wrote:

By the way, do you guys know the differance between 500 and 1000 WRMS is 3 db?


theoretically

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Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: October 29, 2010 at 8:53 PM
agraves1 wrote:

Yea that was my bad. I was really thinking and I was kinda tipsy at the time of the post. Lol. So yea, I completely withdraw my post. Definitely do not get the alpine amp I was referring to.




i guess you shouldn't get stuff installed at best buy after 5pm

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Posted By: mrm1776
Date Posted: October 29, 2010 at 8:54 PM
soundnsecurity wrote:

i guess you shouldn't get stuff installed at best buy after 5pm


At least in Ohio...

-------------
MECP Basic Installation Tech
Certification ID: CEA195600
Pioneer AVIC-X920BT
Polk Audio DXi 6500 - front
Rockford Fosgate Power T1693 - rear
Alpine MRP-F300
Alpine MRP-M500
Alpine SWR-1242D




Posted By: Mikelbolton
Date Posted: October 29, 2010 at 10:14 PM

Thanks for the input you guys.

I realize that the RMS output of the amp should be at least 1k watts, I definitely want a Class D amp.  I used to run a nice Directed Audio setup in my 3000GT, and that was probably the best system I ever had (previous to my current attempt).

My truck is a 2002 Ford F-150 Supercrew.  The ultimate goal is to get a custom box to make the subs sit under the seat and fire downwards (this will require modifications including raising the back seats to accomodate the subs).  The ported enclosure I will need to measure, but I believe it to be approximately the right dimensions (again, this box is temporary til I have time to build my own, or find someone to build the box for me).

I honestly would like to run the subs at 1 ohm, because it would cut the power output of the amp at 4 ohms.  I'm slightly more interested in a monoblock amp, as that's all I've ever run on subs. 

Again, my biggest constraints are time-related.  Money is not really limited, it's just hard for me to justify spending too much, as I don't drive this vehicle that often.  My theory on life is work hard to play hard.  Like I said, I got a deal on the subs, and the current amp, so why not have a little fun. 





Posted By: agraves1
Date Posted: October 29, 2010 at 11:20 PM
Post pics when you get done. Good luck!

-------------
MECP Advanced
Make your life easier and buy a DMM.




Posted By: mrm1776
Date Posted: October 30, 2010 at 9:49 AM
Mikelbolton wrote:

Thanks for the input you guys.

I realize that the RMS output of the amp should be at least 1k watts, I definitely want a Class D amp.  I used to run a nice Directed Audio setup in my 3000GT, and that was probably the best system I ever had (previous to my current attempt).

My truck is a 2002 Ford F-150 Supercrew.  The ultimate goal is to get a custom box to make the subs sit under the seat and fire downwards (this will require modifications including raising the back seats to accomodate the subs).  The ported enclosure I will need to measure, but I believe it to be approximately the right dimensions (again, this box is temporary til I have time to build my own, or find someone to build the box for me).

I honestly would like to run the subs at 1 ohm, because it would cut the power output of the amp at 4 ohms.  I'm slightly more interested in a monoblock amp, as that's all I've ever run on subs. 

Again, my biggest constraints are time-related.  Money is not really limited, it's just hard for me to justify spending too much, as I don't drive this vehicle that often.  My theory on life is work hard to play hard.  Like I said, I got a deal on the subs, and the current amp, so why not have a little fun. 




My recommendation would be to just run one sub for right now until you get your custom box built.

Another thing, how much space do you have to work with under the seat. While those Type Rs aren't the biggest subs I've seen, they're pretty stout and their mounting depth is around 7" I believe. Figuring in 1"+ for the MDF and raising up the box to allow for the excursion of the cone (which I'd allow a 2" space at least, otherwise you'll have the cone slapping the floor)... You're looking at around 10-11" of space needed. I'm not saying it can't be done, and you've already mentioned that you know it's gonna take work... I'm just giving you some food for thought.

Again, good luck, and post some pictures of the build should you decide to go through with it.

-------------
MECP Basic Installation Tech
Certification ID: CEA195600
Pioneer AVIC-X920BT
Polk Audio DXi 6500 - front
Rockford Fosgate Power T1693 - rear
Alpine MRP-F300
Alpine MRP-M500
Alpine SWR-1242D




Posted By: mrm1776
Date Posted: October 30, 2010 at 9:50 AM
Also, is your front seat a full bench? Or does it have a center console? You might consider building a custom center console box. You could then run just one of the subs and get pretty dang good sound out of it since it would be right up front with you.

-------------
MECP Basic Installation Tech
Certification ID: CEA195600
Pioneer AVIC-X920BT
Polk Audio DXi 6500 - front
Rockford Fosgate Power T1693 - rear
Alpine MRP-F300
Alpine MRP-M500
Alpine SWR-1242D




Posted By: mrm1776
Date Posted: October 30, 2010 at 9:52 AM
And your ideal box for that Alpine Type-R is:

0.65 cubic feet - sealed
1.3 cubic feet - ported

-------------
MECP Basic Installation Tech
Certification ID: CEA195600
Pioneer AVIC-X920BT
Polk Audio DXi 6500 - front
Rockford Fosgate Power T1693 - rear
Alpine MRP-F300
Alpine MRP-M500
Alpine SWR-1242D




Posted By: Mikelbolton
Date Posted: October 31, 2010 at 4:30 PM
The front seat is a full bench, I do realize that the rear seats will have to be lifted a bit, my intent is to actually angle the subs under the seat to face downwards at an angle, to minimize the amount of lift the seats will need. I don't typically have anyone ride in the rear of the cab, unless it's my children, but the subs wouldn't be turned up then anyway.

I am not a big fan of boss audio, I'm not sure how the quality is now, but I used to do a lot of repairs to their amps for local stereo shops, and found them to fall a bit short. Those were also Class A/B amps, mind you. I'm still a bit weary, but cost-wise, what do you think?

https://www.amazon.com/Boss-PH3000D-Phantom-Monoblock-Amplifier/dp/B0032FOKVA




Posted By: mrm1776
Date Posted: October 31, 2010 at 7:10 PM
I personally wouldn't go with Boss. Quite a few people on here recommend SoundStream for an economic solution. Look into them.

-------------
MECP Basic Installation Tech
Certification ID: CEA195600
Pioneer AVIC-X920BT
Polk Audio DXi 6500 - front
Rockford Fosgate Power T1693 - rear
Alpine MRP-F300
Alpine MRP-M500
Alpine SWR-1242D




Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: November 01, 2010 at 5:28 PM
Ok, where to start. The youngsters (inmates) have obviously taken over the asylum. David and David help me out here. Every 3 db volume increase requires twice the power (500 to 1000 WRMS) there is nothing "theoretical" about it. That's 3 clicks on most volume controls for your extra 200 to 400 bucks. Not really bang for your buck to me. You actually think you're going to fit an Alpine 10" R woofer in a ported box under the rear seat of a Ford truck?  Unless you raise the rear seat 1 to 2 feet it's not gonna happen. Guys, the idea is to know the vehicle and pick out the best equipment to fit the location and space you are given. It is not to buy the equipment, no matter how good the deal is, and try to squeeze it into the truck when the room is not there. Finally do you guys realize that the lower the impedence is the higher the THD is? Running an amp at an 8 ohm load will deliver an extremely cleaner sound then running an amp at a 1 ohm load. You guys are so attached to output watts that you are sacraficing a clean sound to achieve it.  Old guys viewpoint.........

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There is no such thing as free installation!




Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: November 03, 2010 at 12:16 PM
tcss] wrote:

Ok, where to start. The youngsters (inmates) have obviously taken over the asylum. David and David help me out here. Every 3 db volume increase requires twice the power (500 to 1000 WRMS) there is nothing "theoretical" about it. That's 3 clicks on most volume controls for your extra 200 to 400 bucks. Not really bang for your buck to me. You actually think you're going to fit an Alpine 10" R woofer in a ported box under the rear seat of a Ford truck?  Unless you raise the rear seat 1 to 2 feet it's not gonna happen. Guys, the idea is to know the vehicle and pick out the best equipment to fit the location and space you are given. It is not to buy the equipment, no matter how good the deal is, and try to squeeze it into the truck when the room is not there. Finally do you guys realize that the lower the impedence is the higher the THD is? Running an amp at an 8 ohm load will deliver an extremely cleaner sound then running an amp at a 1 ohm load. You guys are so attached to output watts that you are sacraficing a clean sound to achieve it.  Old guys viewpoint.........


+1! you have the perfect view point on how a sound system should be applied to cars. i agree with you 100%. i guess im a "youngster", im 24 and ive been installing for a few years now and im always looking to learn something new. when i say "theoretical" it is to say just by doubling your power you may not necessarily see a true 3db gain on a meter in a car environment. after all, even if you keep doubling your power all the way to 20,000 watts and beyond, assuming the equipment can even handle it, you will inevitably hit a ceiling at some point, and at said point, you will need to modify something else other than power input to get more deebeez from your system.

that's all i was trying to say.



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Posted By: soundnsecurity
Date Posted: November 03, 2010 at 12:22 PM
mrm1776 wrote:

I personally wouldn't go with Boss. Quite a few people on here recommend SoundStream for an economic solution. Look into them.


soundstream's good amps are not exactly economical, though their tarantula amps are a beast, their lower model amps are just ok. but hey, anything IS better than Boss except Pyle and Pyramid. i would like to take all their amps, toss them in a pile and make a pyramid, though it still probably wont stand for more than six months before it finds a way to self destruct.

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Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: November 03, 2010 at 9:04 PM
tcss] wrote:

Ok, where to start. The youngsters (inmates) have obviously taken over the asylum. David and David help me out here. Every 3 db volume increase requires twice the power (500 to 1000 WRMS) there is nothing "theoretical" about it. That's 3 clicks on most volume controls for your extra 200 to 400 bucks. Not really bang for your buck to me. You actually think you're going to fit an Alpine 10" R woofer in a ported box under the rear seat of a Ford truck?  Unless you raise the rear seat 1 to 2 feet it's not gonna happen. Guys, the idea is to know the vehicle and pick out the best equipment to fit the location and space you are given. It is not to buy the equipment, no matter how good the deal is, and try to squeeze it into the truck when the room is not there. Finally do you guys realize that the lower the impedence is the higher the THD is? Running an amp at an 8 ohm load will deliver an extremely cleaner sound then running an amp at a 1 ohm load. You guys are so attached to output watts that you are sacraficing a clean sound to achieve it.  Old guys viewpoint.........


And THIS is why I love Bob... not afraid to say it, baby!

Seriously, though... I have to agree 100%. I run my 1000W PDX1.1000 at 8-ohms all day long, into a sub system than can handle 1200WRMS. My calculations indicate that the amp makes just shy of 600W, real world, and I can assure you, there is not ONE day, not a SINGLE song on my iPod that makes me want to re-wire for a lower impedance. I could re-wire for 2-ohms, easily. There is PLENTY of output. My amp stays cool, the output distortion is lower, my overall efficiency is better, and my damping is higher.

Forget trying to get yourself an amp that "matches" the power rating of your woofers. Get what you can afford right now, add more later if you feel you don't have enough.

Additionally, there is ABSOLUTELY no reason that you couldn't get yourself a decent "bang for the buck" stereo amplifier, and bridge it. Stereo amps are everywhere, and will easily run bridged, AND you can get the desired 4-ohm load with your existing drivers to get to that "magical maximum load" (in bridged mode) that you so highly desire.

Anyway... There's my $.02, at the behest of our beloved, and long absent tcss. How you doing Bob? Gimme a call once in a while, would ya!?!




Posted By: tcss
Date Posted: November 05, 2010 at 5:26 PM
Thanks David. I always thought you were the amp expert on this forum. It's amazing how much better life is when you are wondering about striped bass and bluefish instead of whether a system will hit "hell hard". Rock on. Bob

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There is no such thing as free installation!





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