ohm load do i have a clue?

Hello all, first post.

I have been surfing the web in a car audio crunch course for the last few days. I feel I have a decent grasp on it for the most part, but I still have a few questions about ohm's that I cannot find straight anwers for. Any/all help will be greatly appreciated.

This is what I am dealing with

sq1500 wrote:

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you are correct on the left one. combining the two 8 ohm subs in parallel will igve you a 4 ohm load. if you were to wire them together in series you would get a 16 ohm load. since you will be paralleling them, that will put a 4 ohm load on your amp at which the amp IS stable at 4 ohms bridged, which is what you want to do. you are no correct on the diagram on the right. since you are putting one sub on one channel and the other on the other channel. the ohm load of the subs will be whatever you put onto that channel. so the sub is 4 ohms and you put it to one channel. that one channel will see 4 ohms

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Ok then, if I hooked up two 4 ohm subs in stereo, the amp would be running an 8 ohm load? 4 ohm per channel?

sq1500 wrote:

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yes 4 ohm load per channel which that amp is capable of. but no the amp wont run at an 8 ohm load because they are each their own seperate channel. the channels are only connected together when you bridge them.

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Thanks for the help!

So, if I understand, I can run a 2 ohm sub to each channel. That would put me in 2 ohm stereo (putting 190rms to each sub) which the amp is stable at?

I could also run a 4 ohm sub to each channel. That would put me in 4 ohm stereo (putting 125 rms to each sub) which is less power, but stll safe?

I could also bridge two 8 ohm subs. That would put me in 4 ohm bridged (putting 190rms to each sub) still safe and the exact same power as running a 2 ohm to each channel?

....and, if I ran two 8 ohm subs in stereo (one to each channel) the amp would be running 8 ohm per channel. Making the output 75wx2 rms?

No reason for me to do it this way, just wanting to know that I fully understand the concept.

sq1500 wrote:

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correct

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Thanks again for taking the time to help a guy out.

Here is another question, would it sound better to run two 200/400 subs @ 190/360, or run one 400/800-500/1000 sub (same size) @ 380/760?

sq1500 wrote:

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no it would be this

two 8 ohm subs
190Wx2@2ohms

so
190W @ 2ohm per sub
95W @4ohm per sub
47.5W @8ohm per sub

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I thought I had it until this.

Why would two 8 ohm subs be 190x2 @ 2 ohms?

And why would it be 95W@ 4ohm per sub when the amp says 125W@ 4 ohm x2?

sq1500 wrote:

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SOUNDING better doesn't rely on how much power you're putting out. SOUNDING better relies on sound quality worthy subs, amps, processors, head units, boxes, tuning, etc. what you are asking is based on what will be louder. in which the 400/800 would be fine for that 300 or so watts

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Decent head unit Kenwood MP 345u. Decent amp Pioneer GM-5100t. Decent subs RF P1's or RF P2's. I also have a sealed box with the right specs for these subs, and a vented box with the right specs for these subs.

I am trying very hard to do this right, and to maximise everything in the system to it's full potential.

gtdhw] wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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no it would be this

two 8 ohm subs
190Wx2@2ohms

so
190W @ 2ohm per sub
95W @4ohm per sub
47.5W @8ohm per sub

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I thought I had it until this.

Why would two 8 ohm subs be 190x2 @ 2 ohms?

And why would it be 95W@ 4ohm per sub when the amp says 125W@ 4 ohm x2?

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Nevermind. I was just reading it wrong. I understand. I was just taking the 125W@ 4 (as stated on the amp)and cutting it in half to get 75.

sq1500 wrote:

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NP

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Last question I guess.

Will this minimal amount of power (<500W) require the use of a capacitor?

gtdhw] wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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NP

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Last question I guess.

Will this minimal amount of power (<500W) require the use of a capacitor?

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sq1500 wrote:

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gtdhw] wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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NP

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Last question I guess.

Will this minimal amount of power (<500W) require the use of a capacitor?

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i do not believe in caps personally. because it is just adding another load on your alternator. now, when the amp draws power from the cap, the cap must charge back up which is the job of the alternator. now your alt. is charging both the battery and cap. but anyway, if you have a good electrical system really, you shouldn't need a cap. you may get a cap though if your lights start dimming and such, but like i said it's just another load on your alternator, which in the longrun will damage your alt. but if you do get one make sure it has a quick discharge rate

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Thanks sq, really, you have been a ton of help.

Since you seem to be very good at this, I have a challenge if you think you are up to it. I have a mid '90's Lanzar OptiDrivePlus 50 that has been in use non stop since I got it second hand in '97. I can find next to nothing about this amp (other than Ampguts saying it is 25Wx2@ 2 / 50Wx1@ 4. This just can't be anywhere near true. I know that old school Lanzars are under-rated, but the old, small, Lanzar pushes 1 or 2 12's better than this Pioneer 760W and better than my old school RF Puch 250.2 It has pushed everything that I have ever thrown at it with absolutely 0 issues. Any way to find out what it is actually capable of? How stable it is?

gtdhw] wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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gtdhw] wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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NP

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Last question I guess.

Will this minimal amount of power (<500W) require the use of a capacitor?

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i do not believe in caps personally. because it is just adding another load on your alternator. now, when the amp draws power from the cap, the cap must charge back up which is the job of the alternator. now your alt. is charging both the battery and cap. but anyway, if you have a good electrical system really, you shouldn't need a cap. you may get a cap though if your lights start dimming and such, but like i said it's just another load on your alternator, which in the longrun will damage your alt. but if you do get one make sure it has a quick discharge rate

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Thanks sq, really, you have been a ton of help.

Since you seem to be very good at this, I have a challenge if you think you are up to it. I have a mid '90's Lanzar OptiDrivePlus 50 that has been in use non stop since I got it second hand in '97. I can find next to nothing about this amp (other than Ampguts saying it is 25Wx2@ 2 / 50Wx1@ 4. This just can't be anywhere near true. I know that old school Lanzars are under-rated, but the old, small, Lanzar pushes 1 or 2 12's better than this Pioneer 760W and better than my old school RF Puch 250.2 It has pushed everything that I have ever thrown at it with absolutely 0 issues. Any way to find out what it is actually capable of? How stable it is?

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sq1500 wrote:

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gtdhw] wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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gtdhw] wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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NP

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Last question I guess.

Will this minimal amount of power (<500W) require the use of a capacitor?

---

i do not believe in caps personally. because it is just adding another load on your alternator. now, when the amp draws power from the cap, the cap must charge back up which is the job of the alternator. now your alt. is charging both the battery and cap. but anyway, if you have a good electrical system really, you shouldn't need a cap. you may get a cap though if your lights start dimming and such, but like i said it's just another load on your alternator, which in the longrun will damage your alt. but if you do get one make sure it has a quick discharge rate

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Thanks sq, really, you have been a ton of help.

Since you seem to be very good at this, I have a challenge if you think you are up to it. I have a mid '90's Lanzar OptiDrivePlus 50 that has been in use non stop since I got it second hand in '97. I can find next to nothing about this amp (other than Ampguts saying it is 25Wx2@ 2 / 50Wx1@ 4. This just can't be anywhere near true. I know that old school Lanzars are under-rated, but the old, small, Lanzar pushes 1 or 2 12's better than this Pioneer 760W and better than my old school RF Puch 250.2 It has pushed everything that I have ever thrown at it with absolutely 0 issues. Any way to find out what it is actually capable of? How stable it is?

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this isn't the model number of the amp is it? Lanzar OptiDrivePlus 50 i don't think it is.
like jl's amps are jl 1000.1/v2 etc.
look at the model number somewhere on the amp (might even be inside the amp) and look it up online.
otherwise you can perform a bench test (to find true rms wattage) and I unfortunately do not know how to do that

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Yes, oddly enough, OptiDrivePlus 50 is ALL that is on the amp, anywhere. Nothing has come off, or ever been rubbed off. During my research (also when an OptiDrive comes up on Ebay -very rarely-) that is all there is to designate them, OptiDrive, followed by a number. I believe they were just known as the Opti series. Like I said, a very hard (yet tough as nails) amp to find any info on.

gtdhw] wrote:

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Nothing inside either, done been there.

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sq1500 wrote:

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i do not believe in caps personally. because it is just adding another load on your alternator.....

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oldspark wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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i do not believe in caps personally. because it is just adding another load on your alternator.....

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Sorry, I just saw that, and though the conclusion is correct, it is for totally the wrong reasons.

A capacitor is not an "added load" to the alternator.
In fact it EASES the job of the alternator.

But I've dispelled that common spousetale that caps or bigger or added batteries add a load. (That excludes battery float currents, but includes the recharge penalty that batteries impose.)

If your arguments were true, car manufacturers would not be disabling alternators during acceleration. (Unless performance is more important than reliability and greenhouse gases - and that is very possible.)

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haemphyst wrote:

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The Optidrive amp was called a "cheater amp", IIRC... ala "Orion 225HCCA" (which I have personally owned, and bridged into .5-ohm loads. YES! That's one half of one ohm.). It's truly 25WPC at 4-ohms. It will bridge to a real world, and completely honest 100WRMS into a 4-ohm load. (Someone that remembers the Lanzar stuff better will undoubtedly correct me.)

As you halve the impedance on an amplifier (as long as the power supply can keep up) the output power doubles.

Bridged into a 2-ohm load, however, gives you 200 watts, and into a 1-ohm load? 400WRMS. These types of "cheater" amplifiers allowed people to compete in a "50 watt" category, even though their system was making potentially THOUSANDS of watts.

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sq1500 wrote:

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so the conclusion being what?
and what would be the right reasons?
and i can't tell if you're for or against caps haha

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oldspark wrote:

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sq1500 wrote:

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so the conclusion being what?
and what would be the right reasons?
and i can't tell if you're for or against caps haha

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The conclusion being to "not believe in caps".

They are not an "added load". (In general they ease the strain on the alternator and battery. And they are far more efficient than a battery.)

There are right reasons for a cap, but they are mainly used to make up for distribution losses, but in that case, a smaller & cheaper battery mounted next to the load instead is usually far more effective.
They can also be to make up for alternator shortfalls, but ditto - battery.
And noting that the above are short-term solutions - ie, the cap does NOT make up for regular alternator or distribution shortfalls & losses. In those cases a battery wins hand down - not that that is necessarily the right solution...

I am for caps in the correct situation.
But I almost always see them used for the wrong reasons - ie, to make someone richer, or satisfy egos. Then there is bling.

I rarely witness forum situations where a cap is the right. (I've probably only seen a handful where they are - compared to hundreds (thousand?) where they are not; else merely bling.)

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i am an idiot wrote:

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The cheater amp of which Haemphyst was speaking of was the Lanzar OptiDrive 50C Lanzar went out of business shortly after making that amp. The company was bought by the same people that brought us Pyramid audio equipment in the 80s. I just went look at this OptiDrive Plus 50. This is a current or nearly current piece. You do not have the amp Haemphyst is speaking of.

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LOL, really? Yes, I know of the 50C. It is twice the size of the 50. However, the 50 is no where near a "current or nearly current" piece. This amp looks exactly like the 50C, just smaller without the C. If you looked both of these amps up, then you would know this (ampguts.com). I bought it used in 1995, that makes it at least 15 years old. That is not "current" by anyone's standard. Also, this is not the first time that I have been told  that this amp is/was also consisdered a cheater amp.

Sorry, I did a search for the amp and the pic I came up with was of a different amp.  It was a newer amp. 

Is this your amp?

https://ampguts.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=4084&title=lanzar-opti-50-inside&cat=1065

Yes, that's it.

And on the net (with the exception of few people who slightly remember them in random forums), that site is the only place I can any info on it....and other than the pics, it doesn't really tell that much.

i am an idiot wrote:

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That is not a cheater amp.  That amp is capable of driving a 2 ohm stereo load or a 4 ohm mono load.   A single TIP35C and 36C per channel.  2 power supply transistors, I do not remember if they were BUZ11s or if it had IRF-Z40s.  I do have the 100 watt version.  It has twice the output and power supply transistors. It can be for sale.

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Ampguts says it can handle low impedences and do MUCH more power. Do you know how low it can go? 2ohm mono? 1 ohm mono? lower?  I have alway been afraid to try, don't want to fry the best amp I have had. How much can yours be "had for"?

Are you sure that they are not talking about the 50C?   The amp you have will not run long at any impedance under 2 per or 4 across it. 

Straight from Ampguts.com

Has pics.

Lanzar OPTI 50C

No info, but lots of pics so models not confused 

lol..

I am happy running it @ 4, like I always have. What do you want for yours?

i am an idiot wrote:

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That is not a cheater amp.  That amp is capable of driving a 2 ohm stereo load or a 4 ohm mono load.   A single TIP35C and 36C per channel.  2 power supply transistors, I do not remember if they were BUZ11s or if it had IRF-Z40s.

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