midrange boxes
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=127339
Printed Date: July 18, 2025 at 4:20 PM
Topic: midrange boxes
Posted By: kemoz
Subject: midrange boxes
Date Posted: May 14, 2011 at 10:45 PM
hey guys, i was wondering, anyone knows how to build a good midrange box? I got two 10 inch and two 8 inch 18sound mis-range speakers, but i cant build a proper box for them, thing is i need to get the maximum out of the speakers, i need to find out if there is any special arangement to build a box with regards to frequency response ect, also i'd like some feed back on flare boxes. thanks PS: here are the link for the speakers : https://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=225& https://www.eighteensound.com/index.aspx?mainMenu=view_product&pid=229
Replies:
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 9:24 AM
"but i cant build a proper box for them"
What does this mean? You can't calculate the volume? You can't build one because you don't have space? What...?
What are you doing with these? Are they for a car application? (ew... just ew...) A PA system? A home system?
A little more info, please? Generally speaking, mid-range drivers need a simple enclosure behind them - a sealed box is fine in nearly all cases. Be sure to damp the interior well with approximately .5 pounds of dacron stuffing per cubic foot of volume (this is about 8 grams per liter for you...) to prevent back wall reflections from smearing your front wave emissions.
-------------
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: kemoz
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 11:33 AM
its for my car, not for bass, i have 2 12 re sx in the back, these are just for mid-range, but the thing is im not sure how to build the box, do i just build any box and drop them in? and i heard that the biger the box the lower the mid-range frequency, not sure if thats a stupid statement, thing is i need to get these speakers playing as loud as posible and i would be switching them to the home system from time to time, you have any informaion about those mid-range boxes with the flare build infront the speaker ? thanks.
Posted By: kemoz
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 11:34 AM
oh and i can calculate the volume just i cant set a proper frequency, apparently box design has alot to do with that.
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM
No matter WHAT type of enclosure you put those drivers in, if you get to anywhere close to the 80-100Hz range on the bottom end, I'd be surprised... VERY surprised. Simply due to the diameter of the drivers, I certainly hope that you aren't planning on running them over 500Hz or so on the top end, as well... They're gonna beam like NOBODY'S business. With a very narrow bandwidth like that, enclosure is going to have little to nothing to do with the way they sound. They're going to sound terrible. End of story. They just will.
In the car, those are going to sound like absolute sh*&, and I do mean that, in every respect of the word. Those are PA drivers, and are meant for far-field sound reproduction, and SPL is their primary goal; they are built with zero regard for sound QUALITY. What this means is you'll get a TON of noise, but it's going to sound AWFUL!
As far as a flare... Are you asking about a horn loaded mid-range? If so, no, I have no experience with such an enclosure. I know they're huge, and getting a horn for an 8" driver into the car will be a MONSTER undertaking, let alone the 10" driver, ESPECIALLY if you want to get even close to that 80Hz range. The lower the frequency, the bigger the horn. Physics, baby. What made you decide these were the drivers you wanted to use IN A CAR? You are WAY off base here. They'll WORK, but they are going to be so far from optimal, you'll never get them to sound anywhere close to BAD, let alone great.
-------------
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Posted By: kemoz
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 6:56 PM
hmmm . what would you recomend for me ?
Posted By: KyferEz
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 7:14 PM
What are you looking to accomplish? Loud mids? Or are you trying to use what you got?
Posted By: kemoz
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 7:33 PM
loud mids, if i can i would use what i got, if i cant, teach me something new
Posted By: kemoz
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 7:58 PM
haemphyst wrote:
No matter WHAT type of enclosure you put those drivers in, if you get to anywhere close to the 80-100Hz range on the bottom end, I'd be surprised... VERY surprised. Simply due to the diameter of the drivers, I certainly hope that you aren't planning on running them over 500Hz or so on the top end, as well... They're gonna beam like NOBODY'S business. With a very narrow bandwidth like that, enclosure is going to have little to nothing to do with the way they sound. They're going to sound terrible. End of story. They just will.
In the car, those are going to sound like absolute sh*&, and I do mean that, in every respect of the word. Those are PA drivers, and are meant for far-field sound reproduction, and SPL is their primary goal; they are built with zero regard for sound QUALITY. What this means is you'll get a TON of noise, but it's going to sound AWFUL!
ok just run me tru 2 things, 1) whats the diameter of the speaker has to do with loudness or clarity ? 2) spl is their primary goal? i thought spl was dealing with sound presure lvl ?
Posted By: KyferEz
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 8:43 PM
Well, simply looking at the Frequency response of the driver in the 30Liter box they used for the 10s, it's 10dB down at about 150Hz, which is less than 1/8 the volume... Usually you consider the cutoff to be 3dB down, so if you did that you would say the usable frequency range of the speaker at the low end is above 300Hz and due to the beaming haemphyst mentioned, the top end will be 500Hz. That's a narrow response.
I didn't know what he meant by beaming off-hand (and this answers #1), but it basically means the sound is extremely directional; "beamed" directly in front of the speaker such that sound levels drop off steeply when off-axis, which is really unacceptable for a car. It has to do with the frequency being played vs the size of the driver. So the 8s will beam a little less, but also are less capable on the low-end. Some drivers will have less of a problem with this than others.
Q 2) Yes, it does. These are designed for high spl midrange frequencies for studio or concert hall type applications.
Here's my recommendation: build the 10s in a small sealed box (~ 1 cubic foot per speaker) and use an electronic crossover to low-pass them and play with the low-pass crossover from 500Hz to 2000Hz and see how they sound to you in car... They won't have a hard midrange kick, and you will need drivers to pick up the higher frequencies they will miss, but you might find them acceptable to use in a multi-driver setup. Paired with some 5" midranges and a tweeter, they could be loud and acceptable...
What else have you tried for loud mids? If nothing else, let me first say that power handling has nothing to do with actual capable volumes, if that's why you chose those. Maybe try these instead https://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=296-430#Description or these https://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-045
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 8:44 PM
What haemphyst is trying to tell you is those are midrange drivers designed to operate from about 500Hz to about 5000Hz. Plus, those are designed for live sound reinforcement and require very large enclosures; they are not the best choice for car audio. If you're building a PA system for a band, they'd be great. In a car, not so great. ------------- Support the12volt.com
Posted By: haemphyst
Date Posted: May 15, 2011 at 10:12 PM
kemoz] wrote:
k just run me tru 2 things,
1) whats the diameter of the speaker has to do with loudness or clarity ?
2) spl is their primary goal? i thought spl was dealing with sound presure lvl ?
1: The phrase beaming refers to the diameter of the driver vs. the frequency it's playing. The wider the diaphragm, the lower the frequency that this beaming function happens or begins to occur.
Google "woofer polar plots". This will show you what's actually happening, acoustically. Basically, you have a reference frequency (Fs), at a reference angle (0°), and a reference SPL (90dB, for example). As you move away from reference angle to any side, the SPL will fall from reference output. Higher frequencies will be quieter than lower frequencies at the same angle off 0°.
The beaming frequency is determined by the diameter of the diaphragm. A six inch diaphragm, for example, will start to "pull in" at about 1000Hz. A 10" diaphragm will start to "pull in" around 800Hz. By the time you get to 2000Hz, a 10" driver will have about 18dB less output at 22° than it does on axis.
As far as "clarity", they will probably sound JUST as "clear" as a good quality true mid-range driver... ON AXIS, and in a VERY narrow bandwidth... As mentioned, about 150Hz to 750Hz. Two and a half octaves is a VERY tiny portion of the overall frequency response you are trying to reproduce. Once and sort of even intermediate off-axis listening starts happening, you'll lose everything involved with clarity.
2: SPL does mean sound pressure level. I submitted that SPL would be all those were good for. I don't understand your mentioning of it. They are PA drivers. They are designed with very high efficiencies in mind, to be VERY loud, in on-axis concert hall venues. They'll do that all day long. Off-axis, as mentioned by pretty much everybody, they will sound terrible. ------------- It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
|