will i be ok? electrical system
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=128367
Printed Date: May 10, 2024 at 6:01 AM
Topic: will i be ok? electrical system
Posted By: tmorales509
Subject: will i be ok? electrical system
Date Posted: August 26, 2011 at 11:52 PM
Ok so even with my old setup of like 400watts i had some dimming issues, even after big 3. I am upgrading to around 700watts and am gonna upgrade the stock battery to maybe something like a kinetic hc1800. Do you think this battery alone with the stock 90amp alternator will be enough to handle the system and all the cars electrical or should i keep the battery i have now and throw the kinetic in the trunk to just run the system alone?
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RE AUDIO!
Replies:
Posted By: tmorales509
Date Posted: August 26, 2011 at 11:57 PM
or should i use the battery i have now to run the system and use the kinetic under the hood to run the car?
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RE AUDIO!
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: August 27, 2011 at 5:08 AM
Was the 400 watt amp a Class D? Is the 700 watt amp going to be a class D?
If the answer to the first question is no, and the answer to the second question is yes, the dimming will probably be about the same.
Posted By: chadpcb
Date Posted: August 27, 2011 at 11:56 AM
Just a heads up to try to help.
Couple of things that people over look that causes dimming lights.
Lets start with the easy ones first.
Class A, A/b, B amps are main causes of light dimming.
Battery is second that causes dimming
Alternator is third (generally issue is maintaining a charge on battery)
Now here are things that people sometimes over look but I like to overkill on....
Primary wire Amp calls for 8ga run 6ga or 4ga instead. Why? It reduces the amperage draw.
Some folks says it wont but it does.
Distribution blocks dont use them. you are trusting that the prongs are always tight and completely straight.
Use a ANL type fuse block alittle more but well worth it.
Keep your distribution leads as short as possible.
Primary fuse this is a good one.
Amp calls for a 60 amp fuse. 9 out of 10 people put a 60 amp fuse on their primary and run with it then wonder why lights are dimming.
Solution is Bigger on primary actual in fuse block.
Here is my setup in my wifey car.
2 type r 12"
4 type r 6.5
2 type r 4"
2 alpine tweets
1 Ev4000D Mono amp Class D
1 ev4 1600d 4 channel amp class D
4 Ga is the primary fused with a 200 amp circuit breaker
ANL fuse block with a 50 amp on the 4 channel and 150 amp on the monoblock trust me its in 1ohm
The battery is a everstart max27s Walmart I like their warranty
Alternator is a factory 136amp
She has never ever had any dimming issues even when I am driving.
Hope this helps.. Some Folks will say it wont but it will.
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: August 27, 2011 at 3:34 PM
This is another one of those times.
Posted By: chadpcb
Date Posted: August 27, 2011 at 4:41 PM
I figured someone would chime in and say not. Here is proof.
Proof 1
2 lane highway versus 4 lane highway
Which one moves traffic easier and faster.
Proof 2 the best proof
The big 3 and you can't argue with that one
A larger primary wire allows the current to flow smoother instead of direct peaks.
Posted By: i am an idiot
Date Posted: August 27, 2011 at 9:15 PM
Something tells me that Ohm's Law just got demoted to Ohm's Theory.
Posted By: tmorales509
Date Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:35 PM
no both are class A/B.
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RE AUDIO!
Posted By: tmorales509
Date Posted: August 28, 2011 at 11:39 PM
Thanks for the solutions. The first one i guess is not fixable since my new amp will be a class A/B..As for the battery, i will be getting a better one before i even attempt my install. For power wire, yes in my old setup i did have 8 gauge, but for this one i will be using 4 gauge, the wire kit i bought came with a 60 amp fuse but i will just buy a bigger one. So we will see what happens. Thanks guys/
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RE AUDIO!
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: August 29, 2011 at 1:01 AM
Keep the existing battery for cranking.
The AGM should be for the amp - they do not like cranking. (Lower ESR refers.)
700W should mean ~70A at full power. A 90A might handle that at optimum rev range unless you also have headlights on or wipers on etc.
There are 2 approaches.
1 is that the cranker (and aux battery) don't recharge adequately with normal amp use and driving. Hence you need a bigger alternator (else external charging, but that is nit as good).
2nd is that you want max voltage most of the time - ie, the alternator's 13.8-14.4V, not a battery's <12.7V. That too means more alternator output at those RPM.
It is best determined with an in-dash voltmeter etc.
Posted By: tmorales509
Date Posted: August 29, 2011 at 11:31 AM
Well actually the fuse rating on the amp is total 60amps, so it probably wont put out more than that? Does anyone know a good site with reasonable prices for HO alternators for a 91 nissan maxima or that can make one. I found one at powermustards for $299 for a 220amp but it is a universal one and i dont think i need one that big. I think maybe a 150amp will do?
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RE AUDIO!
Posted By: tmorales509
Date Posted: August 29, 2011 at 11:32 AM
powermustards*
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RE AUDIO!
Posted By: tmorales509
Date Posted: August 29, 2011 at 11:33 AM
Replace the M with a B, lol i guess you cant put that word here. :)
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RE AUDIO!
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: August 29, 2011 at 1:16 PM
60A should be max long-term, but peaks can exceed that.
A 60A fuse will generally pass 70A for an hour, 100A for 10 seconds, etc.
You can't go "too big" for alternators; it's more a case of price and fit. (Or IMO "best bang for the buck$", without going too high for price.)
I'd suggest an alternator with a "Sense" wire that goes direct to the battery (as opposed to single-wire D+ types (charge light only).)
And you might find bigger at car wreckers. AFAIK, Nissan usually use rebadged Hitachi or Mitsubishi alternators, though they might use local manufacturers (eg, Bosch in Australia, but I avoid them!).
PS - as too "smoother flow" in bigger wires....
And a bigger fuse for the amp to reduce dimming contradicts statements that a smaller fuse or distro will reduce current flow etc. Some people confuse resistance with peaks and dimming...
(Eh IAAI? So now 2 idiots have picked up on that, but the other was clever enough not to go into detail...)
Posted By: chadpcb
Date Posted: August 29, 2011 at 8:50 PM
oldspark wrote:
PS - as too "smoother flow" in bigger wires....
And a bigger fuse for the amp to reduce dimming contradicts statements that a smaller fuse or distro will reduce current flow etc. Some people confuse resistance with peaks and dimming...
(Eh IAAI? So now 2 idiots have picked up on that, but the other was clever enough not to go into detail...)
oldspark - I wasnt suggesting a bigger fuse to stop dimming the lights.
I suggested that a bigger fuse be used on the primary then a right amp size fuse be used in a distribution block.
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: August 29, 2011 at 11:56 PM
Yeah - my meaning wasn't expressed well. In fact taken literally & out of context, what I wrote is ridiculous.
But it is a somewhat more complex topic. It is switching and loads that cause surges and dips.
That is minimised by the Big 3 etc (though bigger cables etc can make some situations worse...)
The alternator should be able to react to such dips (size or response time).
The battery should help to prevent those dips going lower than the battery voltage (ie, from its surface charge of ~13.6V and under; but taking its capacitive and chemical (response) charge time into consideration). But lighting dips are often noticeable with dips above battery voltages - ie, it's often more related to the alternator and distribution drops (V-IR).
And re batteries, lower ESR batteries (eg, bigger, or AGM, and fully charged) have their helpful impact...
And then we get into distribution details, the resistance of fuses, etc etc.....
Posted By: chadpcb
Date Posted: August 30, 2011 at 3:47 PM
I can't go any further that was very well said.
Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: August 30, 2011 at 9:37 PM
Thanks! (It must have been concise. That's rare for me!)
You did cover what I wrote though I thought in an ambiguous way.
But thanks for the prompt. It's easier replying when using other replies.
Posted By: chadpcb
Date Posted: August 31, 2011 at 10:16 AM
ok np its all good.
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