Printer Friendly Forum Posts - raptor 5 farad led fails to illuminate

I have had two FIVE FARAD CAPACITORS in a row after exchanging it through the installer (professional), two times in less than a month. THE issue is that it intermittently, or not at all fails to illuminate the led display, and its almost driving me to hurl it off the cliff. The remote wire is going to cap first then the amp. The amp does turn on and tells be that the cap is working and is charged, but when it fails to beep, and give a signal that the led is on, this has caused me to return it time after time. The head unit is an ALPINE CDA 117, and is a late 2010 model. the cap is a hybrid cap, ans has a blue display. Voltage is showing, but can anyone at all, with similiar experiences please enlighten me of what is causing the led to show or light up as it should. I dont beleive that every unit is defective so I think it is another area that I am not concentrating on, FYI............THERE IS ONE GROUND FOR THE CAP, and none for the amp. I dont know if resistance is causing this by not grounding amp too. The amp and cap are on one ground. Thank you for taking time to read this.;)

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Leonard

I question why you even bother with a cap.
And I suspect that being a "hybrid" cap it is nothing more than a battery.

But the amp must be grounded.
And caps should be across the +12V power supply, not the remote. (But caps are only generally needed for BIG systems to increase AGM battery life. Otherwise batteries are generally better - eg, 1.2AH to 7AH AGM batteries.)

i still am seeking a solution and not an opinion or observation .

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Leonard

Apologies - I thought removal of the cap was a solution.

My other alternatives however are also observance and opinion based.
Maybe someone else understands your wiring and implementation and will provide a solution.

The amp is supposed to be wired in parallel with the Cap so the amp turning on doesn't mean the cap is charged or working.

I am not sure I understand the problem, you said the voltage display is showing, what else are you expecting the cap to do?

he said it fails to illuminate the display. So a capacitor without a display is only a distribution block.

oldspark wrote:

Apologies - I thought removal of the cap was a solution.

^ +1

awdeclipse wrote:

I am not sure I understand the problem, you said the voltage display is showing, what else are you expecting the cap to do?

^ +1

i am an idiot wrote:

So a capacitor without a display is only a distribution block.

^ +1

Seriously. I am not even sure where you see a problem occuring. I am not trying to be a P3N1S about this, but I really don't understand where you see any issue or problem.

1: Battery positive to cap, then amplifier
2: Cap negative to chassis
3: Amp negative to chassis
4: Remote lead from deck to cap remote to amp remote.

Do I understand your connections correctly? So now, all that you seem to have an issue with is that the cap's blue LED doesn't light? Is this where by breakdown is?

Just because the LED voltage meter doesn't light, that in no way, shape, or form, means that the cap isn't functioning. Caps don't have power switches. They are either charged and on, or they are discharged and off.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

People...i said theres no ground to amp,only cap.please slow down and read post.

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Leonard

Dear oh dear!
So how is your amp grounded?

If it isn't grounded properly, I'd start worrying about blowing the amp rather than a probably useless voltage or LED display.
Sorry, that was two more opinions.

the cap has four connectors, of which two are positive and two are negative. I didnt install, it was done at a shop. The negative is grounded from the cap to chassis, and the positive and negative goes to the amp. Instead of having two grounds, there is one. DOES ANYONE REJECT THIS IDEA, and why?

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Leonard

This is a hybrid cap by raptor, which does the capacitor funtion, AND as a distribution block.https://www.raptor-online.com/product_individual.php?id=210 on that page, mine is like the


		ALL 5 FARAD Hybrid digital CAPACITOR 20 VDC, 24 VDC Surge, Low ESR C5H • 5 Farad, 20Volts DC with digital voltage meter • High-tech hybrid technology • Unique extruded shape • Chrome plated finish • Red digital voltage display • 16 Voltage-activated flashing blue chase LED's • Working voltage 20/24 volt surge • ESR less than 0.002 Ohm • Satin nickel plated brass distribution blocks

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Leonard

bayfisher wrote:

Instead of having two grounds, there is one. DOES ANYONE REJECT THIS IDEA, and why?

Provided the cap -ve is connected to the vehicle's ground chassis and the amp chassis is also its GND (which isn't always the case), then IOW the amp is grounded.

But usually the amp has its own GND from its GND terminal direct to the chassis. (Why depend on the typically higher resistance GND through the cap? That defeats the cap's [i[]purported purpose!)

Hybrid caps are usually AGM batteries.
Whether or not the Raptor is (based on its input voltage range), I wonder why anyone would want to spend over $100 on a C2FSM when a $15 AGM is likely to crap all over it, else a bigger AGM which can be used for independent audio power and an emergency cranking battery?

So your raptor has both GNDs to GND, and both positives to +12V...?

you will forgive me for saying that I didnt install the cap and wiring. It was done at a professional shop, or suppose to be. It seems to work when it wants to (display), and otherwise, WHAT ISSUES COULD ARISE BY NOT HAVING AMP GROUNDED, but only having the cap grounded? I need input so i can appraoch and question the installer.

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Leonard

I can forgive the installation, but your first reply is another matter.

The amp MUST be grounded else it will not work properly. It may work at low outputs due to alternate ground paths, but they will burn out under high power.

Get the installer to do a diagram of his install, or rewire it yourself.

This is a lot of trouble to go to for a display that is useless and a cap that is useless.
But perhaps you have some practical use for either or both...?

So this is how you are currently connected?

posted_image

I personally have no issues with this, and if all of its connections are tight, there SHOULD be little to no difference (electrically) with this particular diagram or having a dedicated chassis ground for the amplifier...

If it is connected this way, and the ONLY thing that is at this moment NOT functioning correctly is the display, don't worry about it. If this is the second time the display has died, then I'd say they are just crappy display circuits, but the cap itself will still be "working". Those of us that KNOW better, will still strongly recommend you remove the cap altogether, upgrade your alternator, and possibly add a small sealed gel-cell battery at the point where the cap is, and call it a day.

You *do* seem bent on keeping the cap, so... to answer your ORIGINAL query, the cap is fine. It is still doing the same thing it always did (little to nothing), it just doesn't tell you the voltage at the terminals anymore.

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Yes thats the wiring. Lastly,what increase of integrity would a ground from amp to chassis do if any.losing a new cap....320 with labor is not an option,amd there is no upgrade for alternator for a 1999 nissan sentra.

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Leonard

Assuming it is shorter - ie, you reconnect the cap GND to the amp; or the amp GND to chassis - it can only improve. (IE - lower impedance.)

bayfisher wrote:

Yes thats the wiring. Lastly,what increase of integrity would a ground from amp to chassis do if any.losing a new cap....320 with labor is not an option,amd there is no upgrade for alternator for a 1999 nissan sentra.

Really, with just a quick search I found one. They are not cheap though.

https://www.nationsstarteralternator.com/Extreme-High-Amp-Output-Nissan-Alternators-s/87.htm

250 Amp XP High Output Alternator for Nissan Altima, Sentra
Our Price: $609.0

But it will be well worth it.

oldspark wrote:

Assuming it is shorter - ie, you reconnect the cap GND to the amp; or the amp GND to chassis - it can only improve. (IE - lower impedance.)

Lower impedance to the battery, yes, but higher impedance to the cap (due to 1: longer wire, and B: more physical connections) - the device that ideally MUST have the lowest impedance connection to the amplifier, to gain as much as can be gained from the perceived benefit of a cap in the first place... Right?

Leave it wired up the way it is, forget the display (it does just as much as the cap does), and go about listening to your system.

SERIOUSLY look into the alternator option. If your alternator (THE source of all the power in your car) runs short of current, all of the other devices (lights, fuel pump, windows, COMPUTER... bad news to starve your ECU of current...) in your car will feel the pinch, as well, and possibly, depending on the device, even moreso! A $600.00 alternator is cheaper than a $300.00 ECU, plus installation, plus diagnostics and the time you're without your ride...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

He meant to say resistance, not impedance.

EDIT: They both meant to say resistance.

Since the current demands are quite dynamic, wouldn't it be impedance? Wouldn't the additional capacitive, inductive, and resistive components added in the additional connections be more correctly labeled impedance than resistance? The wire, in and of itself, yes - pure resistance, but the connections aren't purely resistive... No?

I am seriously and honestly asking...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

ok.....the car is barely,,y worth the alternator, and the only best bet is to add a ground to the amp to create less resistance. Lastly, does anyone know if in fact! that an increase of power will be produced by ALSO grounding the amp? Not ridding the car of the cap, and since it was installed professionally, it would be financial genocide to lose the cap. I have a short xmas list for those who have it like that: two jl audio w7's at 12 inch, one Orion 2000 watt HCCA amp, and extra optima yellow top, a high output alternator. That should about cover it for an underemployed student like myself. Btw, a brand new sentra or altima to install the system into.

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Leonard

Resistance = the opposition of current flow of a DC circuit.

Impedance = the oppositon of current flow of an AC circuit.

And if it were an SMPS, the 12V would be AC superimposed on DC...

But no such luck, this is a typical 4x50W HU (with a 10A fuse LOL) - as if a cap or battery or alternator is warranted....

Or did I miss something - other than the humor? (Impedance indeed! That's a variable resistance....)

how much gain on grounding amp will result from adding a simple ground, to have two grounds, one from the cap, and another added from the amp? Now the ground from cap, goes to chassis as it remains now, BUT the ground from amp NOW, goes directly to a post insert on the cap (negative side). There are two pos and two neg. on cap. Whats the trick for grounding amp, and what to do between the cap and amp where the ground is NOW? This will end my debacle.

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Leonard

Get rid of the cap, IMO that is the only way to end this debacle.

Why do you have it?
And who would use a cap for a 200W system (or do you have another amp?).

The shorter and the fatter the ground(s), the lower the overall resistance.
And the more you add (in parallel) the lower the resistance.

I have 1200 watts.v series alpine amp.if you have 400 in pocket...would you throw it away?

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Leonard

you threw that money away by buying something that wasn't necessary. now you are just aggrivated because this is the first time someone took the time to explain to you that you didnt need it. you should just leave it like it is because no amount of rewiring is going to fix your original problem with the display. you should sell the capacitor the first chance you get that way its not a total loss.

the only other thing you can do is to eliminate the wire that goes from the amp's ground terminal to the ground side of the cap, then make a new ground for the amp that is as short as possible and grounded to a bare metal surface. BUT, even if you do this, you probably wont notice much of a difference at all. the only thing it will do, if done right, is allow the amp to not have to work as hard to pass current and reduce any voltage drops that you may have while running your system at high volume.

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the display has been fixed, and matter of fact, the voltage has increased by .5 volts.In addtion, I will add another ground to amp. The lights dimmed on bass beats, but after ADDING CAP, the voltage increases and i get no loss of power. Feedback on this now? this is my christmas present. It was an investment to prevent another alternator failure which was caused by not having a cap, and enough battery. I also have a yellow top optima.So, until i hit the lottery and become employed, my dreams of a 20,000 watt system is out of the question. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 13,000.00 to start.

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Leonard

Glad the display has been fixed. What was the problem?

As to:

bayfisher wrote:

I have 1200 watts.v series alpine amp.if you have 400 in pocket...would you throw it away?

I don't throw my money away. And even though I was only aware of the CDA-117 (32W, ~7A), even with a 1.2kW RMS, a cap isn't justified.

Replace your cap with a 12V 1.2AH (or 7AH etc) and compare the result. So that's ~$10 (to $35) that I'd spend; and nothing to throw away.

When you get to around a 3kW output you should add caps (but not for dip prevention).