focal tnk tweeter completely fell apart

Like the title says. Seems like the magnet got unglued first, and then it pushed out the cone, which seems to be held in place by a material similar to the sticky foam that's used for insulating windows.

The system wasn't playing when it happened. The car was sitting in the sun for a few hours, with driver window open (it was driver side tweeter), rear window/tailgate open. It was about 23C outside. The car is 09 Jeep Wrangler, that has tweeters sitting on top of the dashboard. I installed these speakers (165 KR) just a few weeks ago, and I love them, other than what happened to the tweeter.

My question is this normal for them to fail like this? The ebay seller I got them from says this kind of failure is not covered by Focal warranty (which I know is major BS). He's not an authorized seller, but offers his own warranty, which also doesn't cover that. He blames me for not protecting them from the sun and installing them in a bad location. I will leave no comments here and is pretty much self explanatory.

I'm also thinking whether I should replace this single tweeter with exact same one, or just get a completely different set of tweeters, likely not Focal... but only if this is a common problem with Focal tweeters. Can anyone please chime in on this? To me it's something unheard of. But the seller says same thing happens to his other customers that mount them in "a bad position".

tweeters dont fall apart unless you are talking about the casing that is used to mount the tweeters. i could tell you more if i had a picture or a better description.

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It wasn't the casing. It's the tweeter itself. Cone and the magnet got all seperated, which is basically what makes up the outer part of the tweeter. I have pictures that I will post later this evening.

How do they sound?  I have seen counterfrit Focal drivers purchased from Ebay.    They were pretty easy to tell they were counterfeit because they sounded horrible.

They sound amazing. I never had so much bass coming from up front, and I can't even get them to distort no matter how loud I turn them up. It's also the first time I find no use for the high pass filter. Of course, having them mounted on a mdf baffle in a completely sealed plastic box with a few layers of fiberglass over it, must be helping a lot. They do have a serial number and a warranty card with serial number, so can't really notice anything counterfeit other than this tweeter falling apart for no good reason. Probably should have got the $85/3year warranty from SquareTrade on ebay, but now it's too late.

Here are the promised pictures.

If these had been purchased from an authorized dealer you'd have warranty coverage.  I do find it difficult to believe the tweeter just fell apart like that from being in the sun.  Looks more like someone put a thumb through it.

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No thumbs were put through, I can assure you on that. It was covered by the included grill too. When I noticed what happened, first I thought the grill just popped out, but after a closer look I saw that the tweeter simply took a crap. I assume it's the sun, but who knows. Maybe just gave out due to a weak glue bond.

UPDATE.

My hands got itchy and I wanted to see if I can put the tweeter back together again. It turns out that glue has likely very little to do with holding it together. The round piece that sticks out into the cone, and the round piece on the bottom are magnets, and the top magnet piece simply snapped into the bottom magnet. It is quite strong too. Now I have 2nd thoughts about how on earth would this be caused by sun. How would a magnet just release like this? Vibrations maybe? I just shook it like crazy, it is still holding strong. It's a real mystery now.

I was able to put it back into 1 piece, but ripped off one of the wires in the process. Other than that and a somewhat wrinkled cone on the edges and the sticky foam, it looks "OK". I'll try and see tomorrow if I can somehow solder this really thin wire, and then check how it sounds. Maybe not all is lost yet.

Good luck trying to solder those tinsel leads.  I wouldn't even try.  I suggest you will be better served buying a new set of tweeters, and this time buy them from an authorized dealer. 

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Yeah, I looked at those leads, they're glued to the cone, not soldered.

The problem with authorized dealers is usually their prices are ridiculously high. I got quoted $175 from an authorized dealer for a single tweeter. Instead I got a pair for $145 from ebay, and will add a SquareTrade 3 year warranty for $21. I don't see any reason for paying double the price, and getting shorter warranty too.

Well, when you buy from non-authorized dealers you run the risk of getting knock-off or defective or factory second or used parts without knowing it.  And you harm the long-term viability of the manufacturer by supporting the grey market.

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There is nothing that can be done about it. People care most about cheaper prices. If authorized dealers can't offer that or at least make an insignificant difference, then most buyers will still go to lower prices. Nothing personal against authorized. It just makes more sense to pay half price.

Half-price, sure. And now since you don't have a warranty you get to buy 2.

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I get 2 for the price of 1, plus 3 years of warranty. Focal only gives you 2. I don't see how am I losing here? :) Especially if you count how much money I saved over the years. And I think this is the first time I needed warranty service.

Whatever, knock yourself out.  Just realize it's part of why this industry is dying, and since this is an installer's forum I'd like to see it survive for a while yet.

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I'm not sure why would this industry die. Manufacturer makes the same amount of money either way. It probably hurts authorized dealers, but you can't blame the customer for wanting a cheaper price. As long as people care about custom car audio, that industry will never die. Just overpriced selling techniques might.

The point you're missing is that many times, perhaps most of the time, the grey market is not selling "real" gear.  They are selling factory seconds, knock offs, rip-offs, discontinued and obsolete models, and refurbs.  The manufacturer may or may not see any of that money, and when something falls apart like your tweeter, it gives the manufacturer a black eye that they can't do anything to fix.  And yes, as dealers disappear you, Mr. Consumer, lose the sort of support you might need one day to help you fix an issue.  Plus, the industry that's dying is the legitimate car audio installation shop, being killed off by big-box cheapaspossible joints, unauthorized dealers selling knock-offs, and so-called "free" installation. 

Sometimes cheap isn't cheap, you get what you pay for.

But like I said, knock yourself out.

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I don't know how much of that stuff is real or not. We can only speculate. Based on my experience I didn't see any signs that the stuff I got isn't real. Even the Focal set I got had a serial number which I was able to register on Focal site. So it is most likely real. If the manufacturer would be willing to come down to earth and not deny warranty based on where you bought the stuff, then things would be a lot easier for the consumer.

The legitimate car audio shop will die if it's overpriced. If there are 2 gas stations side by side, one selling gas for a tiny bit cheaper, which gas station would you go to? As long as it's not filling water into your tank, you'll go to the one with cheaper price. I don't see why car audio shops would be excluded from this simple rule. And I'm sure they too, try to find the cheapest prices possible on their tools, shop equipment, and even employees.

a lot of time an authorized dealers hands are ties as to what prices they can sell their gear for. the manufacture makes you sign an agreement that you wont sell under certain prices. UN-authorized dealers that get their stuff out the back door dont have to deal with that.

basically it comes down to this, car audio simply isnt as big as it used to be. to be able to sustain a true custom shop with talented employees and good product you have to sell your equipment at a much higher price just to stay in business. GOOD INSTALLERS COST MONEY. and the market for custom jobs just isnt there like it used to be so customers usually opt for a regular "make it work" installation and they wont pay premium prices to have it done by quality installers who know what they are doing.

customs shops these days do more fixing than installing because of people who buy from the internet trying to be cheap, then they try to install it themselves trying to be cheap, and so the only money the shops see is for troubleshooting when something blows up.a lot of what comes through this forum testifies to that because there are many more posts from people with problems than from people looking for advice before they buy.

honestly the internet itself is just as much to blame because with the amount of information floating around that would normally be acquired by experience i guess it just makes people feel more confident about doing it themselves.


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soundnsecurity wrote:

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then they try to install it themselves trying to be cheap

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Not necessarily trying to be cheap. If a shop would offer me a free install, I would say no, and install it myself. Why? Because it's a hobby, and in the end I'll be more satisfied with the result, because it was done with my own hands. Same as a fish you caught yourself is more satisfying to eat.

[quote] and so the only money the shops see is for troubleshooting when something blows up[/quote]

Come on, it's on as bad you draw it. I know tons of people are clueless when it comes to connecting 2 wires together. I'd say a very small % out of the bunch does this themselves.

[quote]a lot of what comes through this forum testifies to that because there are many more posts from people with problems than from people looking for advice before they buy. [/quote]

It just means an advice is optional, but fixing a problem is not.

[quote]honestly the internet itself is just as much to blame because with the amount of information floating around that would normally be acquired by experience i guess it just makes people feel more confident about doing it themselves.
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And I think it's a great thing.

yea i dont mean to sound like i have a problem with anything, nor was i talking about you specifically. that was really just what i see going on all the time. theres nothing wrong with wanting to do something yourself, i personally do as much as possible myself because it just makes sense to want to save money wherever possible. BUT, i know my limits too. i use the internet more for a resource to cross-reference against what i already know. some people use it like a DIY bible and assume what they read online is always true and complete, which gives them the courage to try things that are way out of their league instead of having it done by the people who do it all day every day and know what they are doing.

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To me this is such an interesting argument. Ultimately, terminat0r is right in saying that "the consumer" wants the lowest price and they don't care about anyone but themselves. If the consumer is given the choice of paying more money to support a small, local business or paying less money to support some illegitimate operation that most likely isn't even paying taxes (and hence able to sell for significantly less) they will typically go with the lower price.

Take a look around at the economy - big box electronic stores are suffering. Small Mom and Pop operations are suffering. It simply isn't possible to pay good employees and cover a businesses overhead while competing with shady internet pricing. And unfortunately, as a small business owner myself, I find myself defaulting to discount internet sites for purchases instead of paying more and supporting local businesses. But, at this point I almost have to, otherwise I would have to raise my prices and lose even more business to online shoppers!!!!!

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Kevin Pierson

Kevin, yes you've described exactly what is happening and why so many of my friends are no longer in this business.  To survive you either have to live with 2% margins and sell everything at cut-rates and hire part-time high school kids for minimum wage who may or may not know a torx wrench from a blow torch, or you have to go super custom and try to find those few high-end customers wanting exclusive installations and hope they happen often enough to pay the bills.  Or get a job saying "paper or plastic" to support your family.

I blame Wal Mart.  Gotta blame somebody.

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Personally I give myself a 10-15% rule for most "local purchases" If I can pick an item up in the store same day, pay sales tax and end up roughly 10-15% more then online and waiting for it to ship I'll gladly pay the extra for both getting it now and supporting a local business. (sales tax too I guess, assuming they actually hand it over to the state...) More often now I am seeing the ability to just buy something local become less and less possible. Bigger stores (Target, Home Depot, Sears) are carrying more and more items "online only" so I can't even pay more to get it that day if I wanted to. I blame the internet.

I try to give the "mom and pop" shops my money whenever possible, and lately they have been able to compete with the bigger stores whether its electronics or home improvement stuff. Keep in mind the little stores don't have a fraction of the buying power as the big shops so when they have lower or competing prices I'm going there to buy. I have always been leery or suspicious of extremely low prices and am a firm believer of "You get what you pay for".

And most importantly, when I am trying to decide what to buy and I see a "Made in the USA" sticker on a product you can dang well guarantee it is going in my basket without a second thought and I'll gladly pay the higher price for it.

There is a lot more what I will call "Consumer Responsibility" given how a lot of stores are suffering these days. I guess I take the stance of "Pay a little bit more now so you have the option to buy it local at a later date" I've seen enough hardware stores close to enforce this. The stores you go to because you know they have the random off the wall part you are looking for.

WalMart is very much to blame. For example, they were the final nail in Circuit City's coffin (my former employer). When WalMart entered the large screen TV game margins drastically dropped overnight on TVs. Circuit City was using these margins, at the end, almost exclusively to keep the doors open. Large TVs are just one example of what a super large company who cares little about it's employees can do to the economy.

Sure, at the end of the day consumers are happy because TVs are now more affordable but look at all the people without jobs now!

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Kevin Pierson