altenator problem issue

I have a 2009 Altima 3,5 S.E 4 door. I have an Xs Power Battery 5100R in the front and in the trunk I have a Stinger SP1000 in the back. I have two amps Logic4000D pushing 1 12" W7 and a Logic1004 Pushing 6 Whip Audios 6.5's and 2 Soundstream tweeters all ran with rockfor true 4 ga. wire. Yesterday my altenator went on me. I bought back a brandnew one and got it put in. It pushes 130 amps. I went around to a couple of places and one place said I should put a capacitor in. Another place said that i should upgrade my wires to 0 Gauge reground the front battery and altenator ground with 0 gauge aswell. another place told me to put another battery in the trunk. I really do not want to run the back battery to the altenator nor do i want to use those relay devices. what do you guys suggest I do. I am leaning towards upgrading the wires. the audio guy told me I am drawing to much current through a small wire and it stresed my altenator out. What you think i should do? thanks guys.

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MECP Certified
Dont Ground Out!!!

I fail to see how REDUCING the load "stresses the alternator (...out)"!! Too small means higher load resistance and hence LOWER current.

Shorts from melting too small wires to GND are a different issue, but reasonable** alternators should handle that, though - warning! - the issue of an exploding battery should be of concern!
{**reasonable - eg, OEM; re-wound and physically small high-current alternators and Bosch alternator power rectifiers of the 1980s-1990s do not apply.}
An{other} exception includes 2- & 3-wire regulated alternators that use a remote Sense to the battery +12V terminal,   


But BIGGER WIRES - aka The BIG three or 4 are well worthwhile to prevent destructive failure (eg, thru loss of grounds) as well as improve power to the loads.
Oh wait! Traditionally that usually increased the alternator's current - and that means more stress on the alternator...


It's the loads that suffer from too-small wiring.
The battery and alternator don't care...
but again, any low battery voltage includes hazards!.

You need to consider that the alternator is not producing 130 amps at idle where you spend alot of time driving around in a city. You need to know the amp draw of your entire system, including any added batteries, amps, etc add them together and see if it is  more than what the alternator puts out at idle. If so, that may be your culprit.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

Well that makes sense .. I had to remove most of my fuses and replace the fuse from front battery to back battery with a 500 Amp so that my amps would not cut out. If it helps at all my amps do run hot. I know my interior amp runs hot because I put too much of a load on them but recently my bass amp has been running hot too. It could be just the weather though. I just do not want to run into this again. I was thinking of running the zero gauge from battery to battery, zero gauge the ground on the front an back battery and see if i can reground the alternator as well with zero gauge and leave all my amp wires 4 gauge. Someone suggested high output alternator like a 230 amps but I do not want to run the risk of exploding batteries and I do not have that kind of money. How would I find the amp draw of my entire system? Is it even worth upgrading that one wire and grounds? Honestly this was very frustrating I just do not want to happen again.

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MECP Certified
Dont Ground Out!!!

Definitely do the wiring upgrades. Think about it like this: Would you try and run multiple showers/sinks/commodes off of one 1/2" copper line? All running at the same time. Noway. Do the wiring upgrade.

Keep in mind the alternator is still the source of power while the engine is running, so if it is not supplying enough to meet demand it can damage the internals. A proper upgraded alternator for your car will still have the same internal regulated output, so while it CAN put out more power when needed, it will not OVER power anything when the power is not being called for. More than likely it will give you a much higher at idle output regardless of how much bigger the maximum output is. A good company will list these numbers for you.

To find your system load you need to know how many amps the batteries pull at full discharge, added to the total maximum amp rating of each electrical device (amps radio etc) added to what the car itself needs to operate the basics (ignition/hvac/lights etc).

Owner forums may be able to help with that info. Find a dedicated forum for your car and snoop around there.

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To master and control electricity is perfection. *evil laugh*

You think I would be okay if i just run the zero gauge from battery to battery and upgrade the ground while leaving the amps ran with 4 gauge? how would i reground my battery just remove the ground that is there and run a zero gauge to the chassis? i know its simple but i tend to be unsure when things are simple. lol. thanks.

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MECP Certified
Dont Ground Out!!!

The battery ground and +12V is the trickiest as the number and size of wires is limited by the battery terminals, but suitable aftermarket terminals can be obtained.

The GND priority is usually grounding the battery- to the chassis/body.
Other grounds can then be paralelled. EG - extra chassis to engine, parallel amp to chassis, etc.
(For vehicles under warranty etc, ADDING parallel cabling should not be an issue whereas replacing standard cables may be - at least as far as the warranter or insurer is concerned (ie, they'll use it as an out).)


You mention the fuse to the 2nd battery.
You should have TWO - one at each battery (else risk battery explosion, fire etc).

The batteries should not be permanently connected together - especially if AGMs are involved. The auxiliary battery(s) should be isolated when not being charged nor used.
That is IMO best done by a relay controlled by the alternator charge-light circuit, though more expensive (and otherwise inferior) voltage sensing isolators can be used.

Ensure that your fusing NEVER EXCEEDS the rating of the cable you are protecting - eg, a 500A fuse for 4G which is only rated at ~150, or 0G (~250A). In such cases, the cable becomes the fuse! (Fire!)

Increasing your fuse size demonstrated the resistance of fuses, but that should be negligible in the overall wiring.   (If it isn't, then magnetic-trip circuit breakers are the go.)


I don't use wire gauge tables to determine my wire size. Instead I decide the desirable maximum voltage drop and work back from there using the cable resistance and length.

So the 500 amp is to large? I will switch to the zero gauge then fuse that with a 300 amp going to the second battery. I don't have fuses from the second d battery to the amps. What was funny is that when I had a 200amp in front and from the second d battery I had 200amps to bass amp and 60 amps to my interior (I used these fuses because I looked at the fuses on the side of the amp and figured that would be the amp draw.) My bass amp kept cutting until I put the 500 in from it worked well and it started to clip again. Is it necessary to ground the alternator with zero gauge aswell?

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MECP Certified
Dont Ground Out!!!

By my reading of wire tables, yes, a 500A fuse is too large.


You must ensure that the GND path can also carry the current.
Loss of a GND can be very destructive.
For that reason, extra (redundant) ground power cabling and paths are often used.   


The alternator to amp (chassis) GND is (usually) via the engine to chassis GND.
It should be capable of handling the max output of the alternator PLUS the starter current, though the larger of the two is usually acceptable (unless you crank whilst at high RPM with max alternator output).
Usually extra engine-chassis GND cables are added (eg, warranty issues) rather than upgrading the standard cabling.
Some ensure that one engine-chassis connection can be lost and the remaining still handle the loads (ie, redundancy).

I am still confused .. you think i will be okay with leaving the 4 gauge wiring to the amps and running everything else 0 gauge. I will be sure to properly fuse them this time around.

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MECP Certified
Dont Ground Out!!!

As long as 4 gauge is sufficient for your amps and you've fused it properly, sure.

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Support the12volt.com

The terminals look like they can only handle 4 gauge nothing higher

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MECP Certified
Dont Ground Out!!!

Many good points have been brought up above and that advice should be taken.

One thing to keep in mind.  Many replacement alternators are cheaply rebuilt and will only last for a while even without a stereo system or upgraded electronics.  I have learned over the years to search out a reputable alternator repair shop and have them rebuild my alternators with QUALITY components.  I also tell them if I have any upgrades and what my use is.  I have an old Jeep CJ7 I take 4 wheeling.  I run big lights and a winch.  I had a stock (50A I believe) alternator.  I took it to them and it now puts out 135 amps and is designed to put out max power below 2,000 RPM.  My Jeep is an inline 6 and spends most all of its time at lower RPM.  I have had no problems for years and I run Deka AGM batteries, run big lights, have a high current electric cooling fan, winch, etc regularly without a single hiccup for years.  The cost to have this done was the same as buying a cheap auto parts store 1 yr warranty alternator. 

Yes - a point I try to make - QUALITY HO alternators. Re-wounds may not have the thermal inertia, and any part can be cheap...


Deka AGMs were highly recommended to me down here in Aus; they were in the top 2 if not top for "most" AGM use.

I had purchased a new alternator but not a high output one. It outputs 130 amps. I think this is sufficient. However I have seen more crazier systems put into cars with lower output stock alternators and nothing happen after some time (about a year or more). I have taken out all music since then and ordered the 0 Gauge to run from front to back. I probably will keep the 4 ga. running to my amps. Should I up these to 0 gauge as well?

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MECP Certified
Dont Ground Out!!!

sometimes when it comes to a charging system it can be a little luck of the draw. a while back i competed with a true 2000W system (bass only, not including highs) and wont first place trophies in my local area and region scoring over a 150db on a optima red top battery under the hood and a bone stock charging system in my 01 ranger. still have the ranger and its still bone stock on the charging end except that it now has two 18's in the back instead of just one. NO PROBLEMS at all. i have learned that some cars are just better than others to put a big system in them.

you have to be careful of even "high end" alternators and you have to know their output curve. most alternators and not wound to give you much output below 2000rpm and some need to go as high as 6000rpm to see its rated output. the best thing you can do is pay a local alternator shop to custom wind an alternator to your needs.

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oldspark wrote:

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Yes - a point I try to make - QUALITY HO alternators. Re-wounds may not have the thermal inertia, and any part can be cheap...


Deka AGMs were highly recommended to me down here in Aus; they were in the top 2 if not top for "most" AGM use.

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I use Deka quite often... Good Stuff... I use them for most of my Lead Acid replacements, as well...

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M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!

tommy... wrote:

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oldspark wrote:

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Yes - a point I try to make - QUALITY HO alternators. Re-wounds may not have the thermal inertia, and any part can be cheap...


Deka AGMs were highly recommended to me down here in Aus; they were in the top 2 if not top for "most" AGM use.

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I use Deka quite often... Good Stuff...

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Agreed.  My buddies ahd nothing but trouble with the newew Optimas.  I have a diesel truck and kept reading about Deka.  I bought 3 intimidators (Deka Yellow Top) and got a smokin deal.  One is in my Jeep and 2 in my truck.  They get plenty of a workout and have not had a single issue yet.

Thanks for confirming - er, I mean supporting - that Deka are good stateside. I've hear little of them from there and have tended to mention Kintetik whereas I recommended (suggest) Deka down here.
The Optima feedback is consistent with many reports - albethat not always, and not including Optimas from many years ago - though some seem to love them despite problems!
I appreciate the feedback - not that I want to turn this thread into (another!) battle of batteries.

soundnsecurity wrote:

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... a true 2000W system .... scoring over a 150db on a optima red top battery under the hood and a bone stock charging system...

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Funny how that makes me thing how LESS capacitance or GREATER resistance increases SPL.

Many have claimed higher SPL by removing caps. Hence I proposed using wet lead acids (not legal if within a vehicle) for their higher internal resistance and hence "battery capacitance" attenuated by increased resistance, but having an AGM under the hood is similar - the longer cable run adding extra resistance though better because it's a lumped external resistance rather than being internally distributed with capacitance, and state of charge.
A new trend for SPL comps perhaps - long cabling between batt+ and the amp(s)? (Or maybe smaller cable for a light show fireworks as well?) (...ie, fireworks)


Cheeky exit comment: "a true 2000W system". Hmmm - RMS or continuous (average) power?
[ Last week I read a definition of "peak power" as being what can be "sustained for short bursts". I wish they would state THAT definition when used (as opposed to peak power which is always DOUBLE the RMS power {by mathematical, engineering, electrical etc definition} and how long the burst is and, if relevant, the frequency, otherwise IMO the claims are meaningless (just as claims of my 1600cc pushrod 87HP 3,000HP peak car engine). ]

yea, i guess i cant say for sure if the actual output was a true 2000 watts, not taking into account any voltage drops and coil resistance at X frequency, etc. i will say that i know that there was a substantial voltage drop when i burp at full blast, even killed my truck once, so i know the voltage dropped to at least 10v or less for the truck to quit running.

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You wouldn't happen to know if SPL changed (down) after reducing voltage drops, or adding a nearby battery?

I anticipate not, but I/we might be lucky.

Of course adding a nearby battery or reducing voltage drop by increasing the cable gauge etc might increase SPL - it will certainly increase average/RMS output power, but I expect that certain combinations will reduce the (peak) SPL.


Ah - I love the car-audio scene. But that's because I'm NOT involved!

no i dont know because the system remained mostly unchanged since ive had it. the only thing that has changed was the switch from my red top optima to a bigger stinger battery. that switch happened after i stopped competing. i didnt notice a difference in sound after changing the battery but it did fix fix my gauge cluster from acting strange which is why i changed the battery in the first place. i will say that my old optima was a very good battery and it took a lot of abuse for about 5 years before it went bad.

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