Beginner Install question
Printed From: the12volt.comForum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=13323
Printed Date: July 19, 2025 at 4:20 PM
Topic: Beginner Install question
Posted By: jaxman
Subject: Beginner Install question
Date Posted: May 08, 2003 at 5:15 PM
Hello.
I am trying to build a simple install in my car and my speciality isn't Audio so I will just ask even if it will sound stupid.
I have the following units:
Amplifier : Viper 1100.5
https://www.directed.com/guides/manuals/og/viper_audio/G1100_5.pdf
Subwoofer : Orion P12D2
https://www.orioncaraudio.com/subwoofers/sub_p_series.asp
https://www.orioncaraudio.de/pdf/2003_Orion_P_Series_Subwoofer_Parameters.pdf
https://www.orioncaraudio.de/pdf/G27201_06_11_16_21_26_2-03.pdf
Well I am a bit desoriented as on one of the documents of the Subwoofer I can see it is written :
Nominal Impedance (Parallel / Series) 1.0 / 4.0 Ohms
On the other one :
Z (nominal impedance, ohms) - 4
Now what should I take for good ?
The amplifier will deliver on channel 5 (sub) : 1 to 4 ohm.
Also on the manual of the Amplifier it is written the the outputs of channel 5 are paralleled internally and the combined impedance/load should be taken in consideration.
Now , what is the best way to connect this 2 units to get the best results ?
As a refference you can take :
https://paudio.tripod.com/subwooferwiring.html
Note: If I connect BOTH outputs of the channel 5 (that are paralleled internally) to the coils of the subwoofer like:
Output one : + Coil1 +
Output one : - Coil1 -
Output two : + Coil2 +
Output two : - Coil2 -
Then the fuse on the wire that comes from the battery will blow if I screw up the volume but the subwoofer will berely move until the fuse blows.
What I am doing wrong and how is the right way to do it ?
Thank you in advance.
I am trying to build a simple install in my car and my speciality isn't Audio so I will just ask even if it will sound stupid.
I have the following units:
Amplifier : Viper 1100.5
https://www.directed.com/guides/manuals/og/viper_audio/G1100_5.pdf
Subwoofer : Orion P12D2
https://www.orioncaraudio.com/subwoofers/sub_p_series.asp
https://www.orioncaraudio.de/pdf/2003_Orion_P_Series_Subwoofer_Parameters.pdf
https://www.orioncaraudio.de/pdf/G27201_06_11_16_21_26_2-03.pdf
Well I am a bit desoriented as on one of the documents of the Subwoofer I can see it is written :
Nominal Impedance (Parallel / Series) 1.0 / 4.0 Ohms
On the other one :
Z (nominal impedance, ohms) - 4
Now what should I take for good ?
The amplifier will deliver on channel 5 (sub) : 1 to 4 ohm.
Also on the manual of the Amplifier it is written the the outputs of channel 5 are paralleled internally and the combined impedance/load should be taken in consideration.
Now , what is the best way to connect this 2 units to get the best results ?
As a refference you can take :
https://paudio.tripod.com/subwooferwiring.html
Note: If I connect BOTH outputs of the channel 5 (that are paralleled internally) to the coils of the subwoofer like:
Output one : + Coil1 +
Output one : - Coil1 -
Output two : + Coil2 +
Output two : - Coil2 -
Then the fuse on the wire that comes from the battery will blow if I screw up the volume but the subwoofer will berely move until the fuse blows.
What I am doing wrong and how is the right way to do it ?
Thank you in advance.
Replies:
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: May 08, 2003 at 10:57 PM
If you wanted simple, you sure picked a rough amp to start with! Hopefully this will help...
Your Orion P12D2 sub is a 2ohm Dual Voice Coil subwoofer, rated at 500RMS and 1000Peak. What that means is each coil is 2ohms, allowing you the wiring options of 1 or 4 ohms presented to the amp (I'll give diagrams later).
Your Viper Audio 1100.5 amp is a 5 channel amplifier, but one like I've never seen before. Even though you have 6 inputs, and 6 outputs, channels 5 and 6 are combined "inside" the amp to make 1 channel (refered to as channel 5). This amp contradicts the norm for bridging like crazy!
When the manual refers to being "paralled internally", they mean you don't have to externally bridge channels 5 and 6 to get the maximum output. On a "regular" bridge, you take the + from one channel and the - from another (like they show on page 13 for a 3-channel setup on channels 1-2 and 3-4), thus combining 2 channels into 1. If both channels are rated at 2ohms, then the total stable ohms load when bridged would be 4ohms (paralled externally using the standard bridging technique). Your amp has done this internally instead for the 2 sets of outputs for channel 5. With your amp, hooking up a sub just to farthest right set of + and - on channel 5 is the same as most other amps would be if you bridged 2 channels. Where the ohms come into play is if you have 1 sub hooked to the left set of + and - of channel 5 and 1 hooked to right set of + and - of channel 5. But, since you only have 1 sub, then all you need to know is wire your sub to farthest right set of + and - (like on page 13 of the manual for channel 5).
Unfortunately I can't tell you exactly how much you will give the subs, because the specs are all based off of a 14.4 volts system (not a standard 12 volt system). In short, you will probably be getting around 500 watts to your sub, which is right on the money based on the P12D2's RMS rating of 500 watts.
Since according to the manual your amp is 1ohm stable on channel 5 (the set of + and - farthest to the right), then here's how you will want to wire your sub (don't mind the RF in the picture!).
Hope that helped
-------------
Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Your Orion P12D2 sub is a 2ohm Dual Voice Coil subwoofer, rated at 500RMS and 1000Peak. What that means is each coil is 2ohms, allowing you the wiring options of 1 or 4 ohms presented to the amp (I'll give diagrams later).
Your Viper Audio 1100.5 amp is a 5 channel amplifier, but one like I've never seen before. Even though you have 6 inputs, and 6 outputs, channels 5 and 6 are combined "inside" the amp to make 1 channel (refered to as channel 5). This amp contradicts the norm for bridging like crazy!
When the manual refers to being "paralled internally", they mean you don't have to externally bridge channels 5 and 6 to get the maximum output. On a "regular" bridge, you take the + from one channel and the - from another (like they show on page 13 for a 3-channel setup on channels 1-2 and 3-4), thus combining 2 channels into 1. If both channels are rated at 2ohms, then the total stable ohms load when bridged would be 4ohms (paralled externally using the standard bridging technique). Your amp has done this internally instead for the 2 sets of outputs for channel 5. With your amp, hooking up a sub just to farthest right set of + and - on channel 5 is the same as most other amps would be if you bridged 2 channels. Where the ohms come into play is if you have 1 sub hooked to the left set of + and - of channel 5 and 1 hooked to right set of + and - of channel 5. But, since you only have 1 sub, then all you need to know is wire your sub to farthest right set of + and - (like on page 13 of the manual for channel 5).
Unfortunately I can't tell you exactly how much you will give the subs, because the specs are all based off of a 14.4 volts system (not a standard 12 volt system). In short, you will probably be getting around 500 watts to your sub, which is right on the money based on the P12D2's RMS rating of 500 watts.
Since according to the manual your amp is 1ohm stable on channel 5 (the set of + and - farthest to the right), then here's how you will want to wire your sub (don't mind the RF in the picture!).
Hope that helped
-------------
Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: May 09, 2003 at 1:42 AM
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: May 09, 2003 at 3:06 AM
Correction to earlier post, you have 3 sets of inputs and 3 sets of outputs. Sorry 'bout that.
You're not just changing 1 + from 1 coil and 1 - from the other coil, you are also changing where they get hooked up to the amp. If I read it correctly, you are using both channel 5 and 6. You should be only using channel 6.
The main difference between series and parallel wiring is resistance (ohms). Lower ohms=less resistance=more power output(watts) and allows the amp to run more efficiently. You can read more info on the differences between series and parallel wiring here.
I think you have the right idea about why channel 5 is split into 2 outputs, it's just the theory behind how/why they did it that boggles me! But I think they had in mind wiring 2 seperate subs to those outputs, not 1 sub with 2 voice coils like you had it.
The way you described wiring your sub initially is referred to as independent wiring (even though you are wired in series right now, the way your amp is designed you have each coil running to a seperate output channel). Here's a link to an article on the dangers of doing this. Wire it the way I recommended and you should notice a considerable difference (as long as the amp works properly!)
I believe what you were doing based on your diagram link was not only wiring in series, but also externally bridging an already internally bridged channel.
If I did the math right, they way you have the wiring is presenting a .5 ohm total load, a level at which your amp is not stable, and explains why you were blowing fuses. Because remember, your amp's channels 5 and 6 are designed completely different than normal!
If you had just wired in series using only the far right set of + and - from channel 5 (otherwise known as channel 6), then you would have had a 4ohm total load and would receive apx 275 watts (but the amp would have been stable and you would not have blown fuses). If you had an amp that had 2 channels that were not already internally bridged, then your wiring method would have worked (but you would only have gotten 275 watts).
If you wire the way I suggested and use the + and - from channel 6 (the farthest right set of + and - on channel 5), then you'll have a 1 ohm total load and get apx 500 watts to the sub, a stable amp, and I think you'll be a lot happier!
Here's a basic drawing that I made to help explain it a little better...
Hope that helped explain things a little more
-------------
Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
You're not just changing 1 + from 1 coil and 1 - from the other coil, you are also changing where they get hooked up to the amp. If I read it correctly, you are using both channel 5 and 6. You should be only using channel 6.
The main difference between series and parallel wiring is resistance (ohms). Lower ohms=less resistance=more power output(watts) and allows the amp to run more efficiently. You can read more info on the differences between series and parallel wiring here.
I think you have the right idea about why channel 5 is split into 2 outputs, it's just the theory behind how/why they did it that boggles me! But I think they had in mind wiring 2 seperate subs to those outputs, not 1 sub with 2 voice coils like you had it.
The way you described wiring your sub initially is referred to as independent wiring (even though you are wired in series right now, the way your amp is designed you have each coil running to a seperate output channel). Here's a link to an article on the dangers of doing this. Wire it the way I recommended and you should notice a considerable difference (as long as the amp works properly!)
I believe what you were doing based on your diagram link was not only wiring in series, but also externally bridging an already internally bridged channel.
If I did the math right, they way you have the wiring is presenting a .5 ohm total load, a level at which your amp is not stable, and explains why you were blowing fuses. Because remember, your amp's channels 5 and 6 are designed completely different than normal!
If you had just wired in series using only the far right set of + and - from channel 5 (otherwise known as channel 6), then you would have had a 4ohm total load and would receive apx 275 watts (but the amp would have been stable and you would not have blown fuses). If you had an amp that had 2 channels that were not already internally bridged, then your wiring method would have worked (but you would only have gotten 275 watts).
If you wire the way I suggested and use the + and - from channel 6 (the farthest right set of + and - on channel 5), then you'll have a 1 ohm total load and get apx 500 watts to the sub, a stable amp, and I think you'll be a lot happier!
Here's a basic drawing that I made to help explain it a little better...
Hope that helped explain things a little more
-------------
Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: May 09, 2003 at 4:12 AM
Here it is the corrected image like I had it and how I have it now.
Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: May 09, 2003 at 4:15 AM
I'll try again:
So as you can see from my drawing if the 5 and 6 are paralleled internally it should be actually the same thing with what you recommend ... or not ?
I will try to install it how you told me.
So as you can see from my drawing if the 5 and 6 are paralleled internally it should be actually the same thing with what you recommend ... or not ?
I will try to install it how you told me.
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: May 09, 2003 at 4:32 AM
Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: May 09, 2003 at 4:45 AM
Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: May 09, 2003 at 4:09 PM
Posted By: Velocity Motors
Date Posted: May 09, 2003 at 4:14 PM
Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 1:46 PM
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: May 13, 2003 at 9:40 PM
Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 4:39 PM
Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 5:08 PM
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: May 14, 2003 at 9:29 PM
Posted By: wvsquirrel
Date Posted: May 15, 2003 at 8:08 PM
I just double checked the Orion site and can see where you got confused. The 27.23 is the "Free-Air Resonance" which I believe is the Hz of the soundwave comming from the sub (output frequency, but I could be wrong about the deffinition though!) I can say that this is not what you needed to use to set your Low Pass Filter.
Your sub's "Frequency Range" (what it will accept as input) is 30Hz - 2.5kHz. It's no wonder now why your bass was unresponsive, you had the filter set below the subs operating range! Easy fix though, just adjust your Low Pass Filter like bberman1 or I mentioned and you should notice a considerable difference very quickly
-------------
Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Your sub's "Frequency Range" (what it will accept as input) is 30Hz - 2.5kHz. It's no wonder now why your bass was unresponsive, you had the filter set below the subs operating range! Easy fix though, just adjust your Low Pass Filter like bberman1 or I mentioned and you should notice a considerable difference very quickly
-------------
Squirrel
"No more Cpt. Kirk chit chat"
If its too loud, then you're too old
Donate to the12volt.com
Posted By: jaxman
Date Posted: May 18, 2003 at 1:13 PM