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how can you pump a prius

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=133448
Printed Date: December 05, 2022 at 9:36 AM


Topic: how can you pump a prius

Posted By: still_walkin
Subject: how can you pump a prius
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 6:59 AM

i saw this link online and they just showed the fun parts of the car so im thinking they  must of redid the whole charging system to support 4,000 watt stereo sytstem. but iitt says the drive train was never modfied ... heres the link below any suggestions

https://www.treehugger.com/cars/yes-its-a-hyper-pumped-out-toyota-prius-from-sweden.html



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1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"



Replies:

Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 3:51 PM
Nothing at that link for me, but if done properly they'd be using the Prius' battery, IOW the type of high power audio split system I have long been advocating but without the front-end SMPS PSU.
The advantage is being able to get 5kW of audio output (RMS of course!) into 8 Ohm speakers even using their later lower 200V system.

To output 4kW off their st'd 12V system adds much inefficiency, plus of course requires a larger ~400A alternator for continuous running, or 12V battery replacement every 20 minutes (if that), or extra 12V batteries.




Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 4:31 PM
On the link it said then drive train wasn't modified so doesn't that include the alternator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R13nF0OQZEU&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Here's a YouTube video

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 5:30 PM
The 12V electrical system in a Prius is like the 12V system in any other car...

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Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 5:33 PM
Right but an half electric based car can support a 4k system without any charging system upgrades

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 8:08 PM
Your link is dead but I watched the Youtube video. No where do they say the electrical system is un-modified, and I'd be very surprised if someone was going to build a highly modified show car like that one they would not upgrade the electrics. Also, calling a Prius a 100% electric car is BS, of course... Nice fiberglass work I will say.

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Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 8:25 PM
Here's another link I found it says how the builder didn't say if the drive train has been modified or not but he did say he added four batteries
https://www.wired.com/autopia/2008/08/the-worlds-most/

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: KPierson
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 8:58 PM
Drive train = motor and tranny. I wouldn't assume it meant accessories hanging on the motor.

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Kevin Pierson




Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: January 28, 2013 at 9:04 PM
OK Cuz I saw the factory battery and accessories and I couldn't compute how it was done

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 12:05 AM
It's probably as I described. It would be illogical to do it from its 12V system.

Besides, as I recall, the Prius has no 12V alternator. Its 12V battery is charged via a ~50V (dc-dc) converter from its main battery.




Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 12:07 AM
Yes I noticed tht so I'm thinking four batteries this had me puzzled

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 12:35 AM
Not that I've seen any descriptions, but I suspect vagueness is one desire...
Battery is a vague term. The Prius' main battery can be considered ONE battery made up of 2 strings of several mono-blocks and even more cells. Each cell is a "battery" as is a monoblock as is a collection of monoblocks... IE - an entire collection or "batteries" is itself "a battery".

But no matter how you look at it, chopping down the DC from the Prius' main battery is the easiest and most efficient way to power an amplifier (ie, even if they only use ~70VDC for 1 Ohm speakers).




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 11:28 AM
I don't think the propulsion battery is accessible in any safe fashion, plus it is 273.6 volts. At 6.5 Ah capacity, it won't last as long as a couple Optimas. :)

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Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 1:45 PM
LOL! I guess audioforums might swallow that (ie, the 6.5AH vs two Optimas).

And it merely requires an HVDC license to tap the batteries legally (depending on the intra-string isolation links/method and its maintenance legalities).









Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 2:22 PM
Well, an Optima yellow top is rated for 75 Ah... Don't know what an "HVDC license" is, maybe it's a certification they do in Oz?

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Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 2:59 PM
HVDC - required to work on DC above whatever voltage (lower than its AC counterpart).
HVDC is relative. Transmission-wise, 1,000V is still classed as "low voltage". In telcos, above ~80VDC might be referred to as HVDC, though its H may refer to "hazardous" rather than "high".
But if in USA they require licences to work on 110VAC systems, I'm sure they'd require licensing for 110VDC.


Re the Optima. You are comparing a yellowtop battery rated at under 1,000kWh against a Prius battery rated at over well over 1,300kWh.

However, presumably the 4kW output audio would normally be working with the engine running. You are then comparing a 12V alternator with a minimum of 350A output (5kW) against the the Prius with its 10kW generator.

Efficiency-wise, the Prius would not have to up-convert the amp's voltage.
Furthermore, the 12V generation and distribution will have well over 200 times the losses of the Prius (ie, >350A vs <25A).


But why not find out what set up those Swedes used? (I wonder if they'd use Optima knowing the history of the Prius? posted_image )




Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 3:15 PM
See that s the thing they didn't that's why I was thinking it looks nice but does it sound nice. So people can fit it the car nicely but can the car hold it and still do its normal functions

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 3:26 PM
Using the HV battery & system requires far less modification.

To run off 12V requires the addition of a large 12V alternator else upgrading their HV to 12V converter from ~50A-100A (whatever) to say 400A. And why to that only to convert (say) 350A of that back up to a higher voltage?


I reckon they'd be using the HV supply and maybe down-converting to feed the back-end of a normal car amp else some other amp. After all, they can easily run 8-Ohm speakers - even a single 4kW 8-Ohm speaker requires less than 200V.

And it wouldn't be the first time those dastardly Swedes have plagiarised my ideas! posted_image




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 3:45 PM
oldspark, my point is you don't need to do anything to the HV system (nor would you want to, really) to run a large 12V system. You either need to add an HO alt or two, and/or a high capacity DC-DC convertor, and/or a couple good 12V batteries. And then, like they claim, the propulsion system is left intact. Besides, it would be foolhardy indeed to try and tap directly into the 270V system on a Prius, both because it has a pretty low ampacity and because it would still require DC-DC conversion to attain an operating voltage capable of driving amplifiers. Plus is damn dangerous, regardless of any "certification."

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Posted By: still_walkin
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 4:03 PM
That makes sense when you explain it. So I'm thinking this kind of technology might just get better

-------------
1993 sdv
Alpine 4x6 6x9 5 1/4 swr-10d4
alpine v60
12.5 VGA flip down
Nettop pc w/10" touch screen
78nova
5-re audio 5x7 ,10" sub &
Xtx-500.5
"Take the faceplate off get the jumperpack"




Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 4:53 PM
DYohn, that is obvious. That's the same old solution that is generally used, and I'm quite familiar with that.   

And that's fine for those that want to add the extra weight of extra batteries plus one or 2 alternators assuming they can make them fit.

But why do that when the Prius comes standard with a 10kW generator? Etc etc.

As to dangerous, IMO it is as dangerous as having a car with lethal battery voltages.   The tap would only be made once iaw standard "HV" DC practices.
And the dc-dc converter would be much smaller not having to convert 350A. In fact a simple chopper is probably all that is required - no 350A chokes etc, just a PWM and a $3 MOSFET.

And you won't have the issues of AGM thermal runaway and their more common replacement. (I consider thermal runaway alone reasonably hazardous.)

In summary, far less modification, far less weight (100kg lighter?), higher efficiency, and less maintenance.

I'd bet the HV solution has been used. IMO it would disappointing if they simply engineered a "standard" solution. It's just too inefficient and costly for a concept like the Prius.
It might even be the first of the "split systems" that will come for 12V vehicles.




Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 5:18 PM
Why go to all that trouble? It's 12V gear that's in use so it needs powered by a 12V system. The only other option would be using 240V pro amps, which would require an inefficient AC inverter... no, just using a 12V system is all that's needed. The only special challenge in a Prius or any hybrid or electric vehicle is installing a 12V source capable of handling the load. Just like in any other car, really. posted_image

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Posted By: oldspark
Date Posted: January 29, 2013 at 5:33 PM
Sorry, I didn't realise the Prius could run a 4kW audio system without reasonable modification.
Nor did I realise it was the 12V system that was being utilised (hence the OP).

The system I describe is mere addition.
But inverters???
The chopper would be set to whatever dc the chosen amplifier requires.





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