what brands are ’higher end’?

Due to some policy changes with one of the audio companies I was using, I am no longer an authorized dealer and therefore I am on the look-out for another mid-high end quality audio brand. I know the obvious (JL, Memphis, Kicker, MTX) but I wanted to know some others. I can get other brands from my distributor, but I've never used them before so I didn't know if they were decent quality or your typical Walmart crap. Here are the brands I can get from my current distributor:
Alphasonik
AudioPipe
Hifonics
Kenwood (don't have much in the higher power ranges; mostly just mid power)
Logic
Matrix
Precision Power
Soundstream

If I were to go off prices (get what you pay for), the Alphasonik, Precision Power, and Soundstream would be in that middle range quality (similar to MTX / Kicker); but since I've never used them, I don't know about their quality... and don't want to be selling crap to my customers.
Thanks!


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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

precicion power and soundstream are mostly the same product, they have a few differences but are mostly the same. they run the gambit in terms of quality, from cheap garbage to some pretty decent amps and speakers. i dont know about their radios, never used them.

likewise i never used alphasonic either but some of their stuff looks neat.

i havent dealt with hifonics in so long i couldnt tell you whether they had anything worth selling or not.

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This is mostly for amps and subs. I can also get Alpine through another distributor so I have a decent option there... I just haven't used their amps either in so long.


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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

IMO Alpine is superior to anything on your list, and nothing on that list is even close to "higher end." If you want higher-end, look at brands like Brax/Helix, Genesis, Rainbow, Milburn, Zapco, Mosconi, Dynaudio, Morel...

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I didn't mean extreme high end... I meant something up around the high middle range. Around the similar quality of Alpine, Eclipse, etc. Something that your average Joe who wants decent stuff can afford.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

Higher-end "average Joe" electronics IMO include Alpine's better line such as their PDX amps, Zapco's iForce line, Some of the better Phoenix Gold stuff, Pioneer's Stage 4 line, Clarion's top of the line and probably a few others I can't think of right now.

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Support the12volt.com

yea if you can get alpine as an authorized dealer then id vote for that. even though i dont particularly like how their speakers sound the name alone will make people buy it and it is better than anything you have in that list. although soundstream makes a few nice amps and subs the rest of their line is just ok and lately they have been plastering that damn spider all over everything so now it just looks like cheap kids stuff.

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As a user, I'd suggest Alpine though I've only used their HUs, not their amps nor speakers etc.
I went back to Alpine after trying a couple of cheapies and I now have the view "always Alpine, don't bother with the others". That is also based on several mate's comments over many years, as well as the12volt's poll and many saying there is no bad Alpine (HU?) etc, and quite a few "experienced" guys commenting on my sound quality.

Pricewise I got my "previous year's model" Alpine HU for $99 instead of RRP $199 or the usual chatting price of $179 ($AUD).
But even at $199, I would buy the Alpine over the other 2 at $49 each (one was RRP $89). Yeah - 4x as much, but only $150 extra for IMO essential trouble free quality.
And if unable to afford $50 but not $199, I'd rather be without until I could get the Alpine (or other HU that I knew was of equal quality).

DYohn] wrote:

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Higher-end "average Joe" electronics IMO include Alpine's better line such as their PDX amps, Zapco's iForce line, Some of the better Phoenix Gold stuff, Pioneer's Stage 4 line, Clarion's top of the line and probably a few others I can't think of right now.

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Pioneer's Stage 4 line IS NOT for the Higher-end average joe. It happens to be the best you can buy these days, ( their Head Unit i'm Taking about) if you want the latest technology and not 8+ year old Alpine F1 Status. Which I both own. Nakamichi's Black Amps, PA300II 2 channel and PA400M their mono amps are extreme sound quality without braking the bank. I have both for sale if you're interested.

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Don't know what the problem is yet... but I know what it's not.

Memphis is a great line to get. There MC line is great. We sell a bunch of those...Those other lines are basically the same stuff. I don't even bother with them. We are JL and Memphis dealers.

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Eric
Audiomaxx
528 East Fordham Road
Bronx NY 10458
Compustar Top Gun Dealer Award 2012-2013

I have to give my local Memphis rep a call this week, but from what I've seen they apparently have the same policy regarding not having a physical store front... so I may strike out there as well. I also tried getting JL when I first started and I think I ran into the same issue.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

most of the big quality brands require a store front. they want to make sure you are selling it at their price and not out on ebay for 30 bucks above cost.

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I understand that, but what's to say that some 'chop shop' isn't going to do the same thing? It's not worth my time to try to pull that crap. Most of my income comes from my install fees. I could definitely see them saying no to just a plain jane side-job installer, but for someone in my shoes, who has taken the time, money, effort, etc. in setting up a legitimate business with a business license, retail certificate of sale, etc. it just doesn't seem right.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205

well its not just any business front they need, they want to make sure you are real and that you arent a chinese restaurant selling audio out the back door. they want you to be a dedicated audio shop or something similar like a tint shop so that their products are represented by people who know what they are doing. im not saying you dont know what you are doing im just giving you the reason for the rule. they also want to know where you are so that they can respect sales terrirory so they dont put too many dealers within a certain milage of each other.
we had to go through all kinds of checks to be an authorized crossfire dealer

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Sound stream is now in bed with power acoustic, so i wont toutch it, but what do i konw, i think MTX is kind of garbage, and wont toutch it either (I liked it about 10-15 years ago).  Alpine, in my opinion is not nearly as good as it was 8 years ago, but the low end 500w amp by alpine is the top selling amp in the world right now and has been for a few years.  From a profitability standpoint, that is nice for you as a dealer.  As far as the store front thing goes, i may be able to explain it.  It is a cash flow, and image thing.  Cash flow is because your rep is on commission, and brands like Memphis protect the line.  That means if the local rep lets you sell it, no one else in town can sell it.  Without a store front, it is likely that you wont sell as much, and this was admited by you when you stated that most of your money comes from install, not sales.  The guy with the store front will make the rep and therefore the company more money.  The image thing is just like mentioned above.  They have  a certain image that they want, and like someone else said, they dont what someone with no real store representing their brand.  Look at stage 6 and what is required to sell that.  It is crazy.  Based on the regs to sell that, there are probably less than 10 cities in the country that meet the requirements to even have a dealer, then even fewer shops within those cities to meet those requirements.  It an Image thing. 

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If your cousin is such a good installer, and he will install anything for a 6 pack; why are you talking to me?

the only thing i even like from MTX is their thunder elite amps, everything else is just sub standard for the price they want. with that said ill agree that mtx isnt nearly as good as it was even 8 years ago, i bought and still have a a regular thunder 300 watt amp that i feel is just as clean if not more so than their newer stuff, not to mention a thunder elite amp is the only amp ive ever seen burst into fire for no apparent reason right after i installed it. their thunderform stealth boxes are decent too.

soundstream, PPI, power acoustic, and one other brand that i cant think of right now are all basically the same product, most of it looks the same just different colors. compare the power acoustic MOFO to the PPI power line sub, they are identical. i wouldnt quite say that one is in bed with the other, but merely have the same supplier and they brand their product differently. no real research and development on either side, they just buy from china or wherever and slap their name on it.

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zapco that is cool
price... well you can't buy good benz for under 60 or a bently extra
ppi well used to be
i'm a little out of touch with new brands but zapco

o ya love kicker
just like being kicked in my ear
o and mtx good bang for your buck
Hifonics thats a vary sore spot in my heart from perfection to.... its to painful
PPI o if your talking about old ppi i'm so happy
if your not we need you to get some sections at a real audio place
i don't know wanna know the rest
ok... when you can listen to opera classical MUSIC on a system not some getto boom bang thing you will start to like it
no offense but you have some dull ears or they have never heard what it should sound like

namesmeanlittle wrote:

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ok... when you can listen to opera classical MUSIC on a system not some getto boom bang thing you will start to like it
no offense but you have some dull ears or they have never heard what it should sound like

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When you have a very high end stereo system, like I have, it doesn't matter what type of music you listen to it's all going to sound as best as it was recorded.

Whether classical or rap music makes no difference.


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Don't know what the problem is yet... but I know what it's not.

Let me get this straight. An Owner/Technician/Professional doesn't know the obvious answer to this?

I really don't like to be a hater, but I have to deal with a general public view of the car audio performance industry that thinks we are all hacks and or that our services are only worth a dollar or less. Many of the misconceptions about car audio professionals exist because of dudes claiming to be professional retailers and installers that have no business doing so.

Having said that I realize that I know nothing about you or your establishment and am not stating that I do. So I apologize that this sounds harsh.

Are you looking for public opinion? Or are you really in the dark yet willing to tear into peoples prize possessions with out knowing what you are doing?    

After 20 years of doing it better than most and having to deal with the grief of hacks (not necessarily you)being self labeled as professionals, a question like the one you posted is disturbing.

thats not really a fair assumption, theres nothing wrong with wanting to gather opinions of other people in the same situation. with that said, i can understand you perfectly about having to deal with hacks destroying the industry, trust me i have to deal with the very same issues of mistrust from customers because they have had so many bad experiences. but honestly i dont know how you can assume someone doesnt know what they are doing just because you arent sure if certain brands are worth messing with. brands rise and fall all the time, what used to be good might not be good anymore and likewise something that used to be crap or is new to the market might be getting better.

everybody has their own opinion of what is good, me personally i have given up trying to sell customers equipment that i feel is good because my standards are too high for my market, all everybody wants is something that is loud, cheap, and durable and thats it. nobody wants to pay for the type of stuff i would buy for my own truck. its a strange balancing act that we have to perform to give people what they want and are willing to pay for but also not sell cheap junk product because i dont have the time to deal with any returns or warranty issues. in 2 and a half years ive only had to deal with a hand full of broken product, much of which was bad out of the box. ive had to try out a lot of different brands to see how they handle under the abusive nature of our customers, many brands that get recommended or look good on paper turn out to be not what we want to have and the only way to find out is to try it out.

the biggest shop in my area is nothing but a bunch of hacks, at least 6 installers and none of them are worth a dime to me. they probably do 3 times the business i do but i know they also deal with 10x the warranty and return issues. they sell mostly garbage, cheapest stuff they can find that has a name on it and their installers seem to use a lot of trial and error in their methods. ive taken apart more than a few of their installs and wondered to myself how did this stuff ever work to begin with, cars with panels that would barely snap back on because of the giant birds nest of wire behind them, and yet, they are still in business. the moral of the story is that in most areas, price sells and everything else is secondary to most people. id complement someone for actually trying to ask for opinions on a respected forum instead of just ordering the cheapest brand that fits the bill. a hack wouldnt have cared enough to ask.

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Well said. There's nothing wrong for asking for public opinion. Glad you care enough to ask. Sorry I was harsh. Great response!

I know you didn't ask for my advice but here it is anyway.

Don't fall for the common excuse that it's all about price. It's not true. Logical; yes. True; no. The car audio industry has lost it's way largely because we are made up of a bunch of uneducated guys with out much of an industry structure to fall back on. For example plumbers make quite a bit more than car audio guys do (no offence to plumbers) yet they require a much smaller skill set, shop space, retail space, and tooling than we do. This is for a reason. Plumbers have a long industry history, union guidelines, educational and licencing requirements. We do not, and it is haunting our industry. The lesson to be learned here is to think twice before taking advice from a consumer or professional in this industry.

The key to getting a fair price for your work & equipment in car audio is to specialize, and focus on enthusiasm.

Value your business & your customers.
The most profitable item that you have to sell to your customers is, and always will be subwoofers. Our industry has forgotten that subwoofers make the most profound difference in the car audio experiance for our customers; and retailers have forgotten that subwoofers are the single most profitable item that they can sell. Subwoofers are profitable because they require an enclosure, an amplifier, RCA's, and an install. Every time for every vehicle. By focusing on subwoofers you will also be focusing on amplifiers and therefore have the opportunity to sell 5 and 6 channel amplifiers. And of coarse this lends it's self to speakers, custom work, and processors. I am not saying just sell bass. I am saying focus on whats not a dead end sale for your business, and what will make your customers happy.

All of this amounts to a great service to your customer because you will be able ,to deliver performance. Customers don't do this every day like you do so they are largely unaware that their primary goal is a great end result and often mistakenly think that it is a low price. We know all to well that this scenario will usually amount to a disappointing experience for all, but they don't. Second time customers on the other hand often spend much more on both equipment as well as labor because they have learned the value of not cutting corners. It defeats the purpose of investing in an audio system in the first place if you do. The whole idea is to upgrade. Right?

I chose to specialize in exotic and classic cars. That has worked well for me. Although I still deal with people that expect the moon for a dollar and think that I should be able to install it all in less than an hour. And funny enough that guy doesn't drive a Ferrari, Lamborghini, or Porsche like the ones filling my bays. He drives a kia!

I am booked out for a week at a minimum and for 6 months out of the year closer to 3 weeks. I spend about third of my time dealing with people on the phone and in my shop that have misconceptions about price, time, and differences in quality. It's a waist of my time. Don't waist your time and money catering to people that think there is a free lunch at your place of business whether you have a store front or not.

Truth be told, I spend way to much time being nice and could have a lot less frustration and time if I was not so nice to people calling and walking into my store.

Be nice to your customers and push performance and enthusiasm. Price based decisions don't work out for you or your customer. Value however is an entirely different yet often confused topic.

I completely understand where you are coming from. The reason I asked was more for public opinion but also because I was out of the game for a few years and I know how much things can change in a short period of time. I had the feeling that the brands I am able to get currently are lower end but I wanted to make sure before I just brushed them off. I was also looking for opinions and 'reviews' on brands that I have no personal experience with. I prefer to know the products I am selling my customers to make sure they are happy with their purchase for a long time. I have easy access to the 'cheap' brand remote starters but I refuse to sell them even if they are so much cheaper because of their poor quality. I've just been away from the game for a while and wanted to be sure on what I was selling.

It looks like I will be primarily selling / installing Alpine; at least until I have a store front and can open up my options more. I have experience with Alpine and I have been generally impressed with their quality.

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Kenny
Owner / Technician
KKD Garage LLC
Albany, NY 12205