jl w6v2 or jlw7?

I'm not telling ys, I"m tellin ya, you won't have a system with out those old school Lear Jet XL's man! Does anyone remember them? anyone!. The JL's are nice but I (and many others) would probably put the big nasty acoustic hairdryers Eclipse Titanium's in, if you have not considered them, now it's time to.

I agree with Forbidden and PureRF the W7's have a good reputation a lot of hype , they are defiantly one of the top woofers. But if you’re willing to spend that kind of money you should not settle for anything other than the best. And at the top of the food chain lies the Eclipse Titanium. You will not find a woofer that will put out the bass and still sustain the SQ that the Titanium’s do. https://www.eclipse-web.com/products/speaker/index.html

You could also look for a local Resonant Engineering dealer (or the closest one)...

Do the research: www.respl.com

Spend less money, get more output - more SPL, more SQ ... depends on what you want :)

trini] wrote:

---

i say neither cuz pioneer has a better sub

---

I disagree.

trini] wrote:

---

i tink it pushes out more watts

---

Speakers don't "push out watts".  Although Pioneer doesn't list any specs on the sub, I'm willing to bet that the W7 has more linear throw and more Sd.  So I'm willing to bet it can get louder, especially in a daily driving aspect.

trini] wrote:

---

nbsp;and it has larger voice coil i tink around 3 inches,

---

That's not necessarily a benifit.  Larger coils increase inductance.

By design the W7 has a much more linear motor.  This means that it will produce less distortion at any output level.  Add to it the progressive spider instead of the dual spiders, and you get a sub that stays much more linear throughout it's throw. 

What I have heard is that the Titanium doesn't work well in sealed enclosures, and doesn't have much low frequency extention. 

The Eclipse sub is nice, but I don't think it is quite as nice as the W7. 

Ketel22 wrote:

---

steven i just wanted to know if you have seen or heard the new pioneer premeirs? they are pretty damn close to the W7 i think

---

Unfortunately I have to go based on what I have heard since Pioneer doesn't give much info.  But the W7 has a very innovative motor design that I can only think of one other company being able to match.

Maybe I'm too much of an SQ guy, but I think the W7 is the best SQL sub on the market.  Sure it is expensive, but the price comes from those things that put it on top IMO.  The Pioneer sub is marketed as an SPL sub, so it may be able to "fart" louder.  But in a daily driver install, I'm pretty sure the W7 will be louder, and have much better SQ doing it.

I'm concerned about what power is available...
What is the total RMS that can be had from that Kicker amp, and at what impedance?  Fill me in, I'm not familiar with it.
Two W7's will be a 1.5 ohm load (aka. unfriendly on a 2 ohm stable amp).
Two W6V2's will be either a 4 ohm or a 1 ohm load. (aka. a/b amp bridged, or 1 ohm stable D amp needed).

Anyway, assuming we've got the power to drive them (or alternatively have an sufficiently - and efficiently - large / tuned enclosure)...

As far as total output goes, it'll come down to Sd and Xmax.
My suspicion is that the 10" and 12" W7's will easily outdisplace the 10" and 12" W6V2's.

From a sound quality standpoint - also superior (maybe more importantly, superior at all excursion levels), as the W7 has a much longer motor.

It's not perfect either, as the DUMAX for the W7 revealed some rearward anomolies, an asymmetrical BL curve, most likely caused by stray magnetics inside the motor, as this anomoly was only apparent in rearward travel.

The W7's not cheap, you might argue not worth the money (when subs like the Brahma, offering the same linear displacement - only sacrificing in terms of Xsus with respect to the W7 - exist), but you can't argue that they shouldn't cost that much.
The W7 has so many patents and custom parts, it's honestly surprising they can sell them as inexpensively as they do.  That's not to say its' a good value.

Also, the Eclipse Ti is honestly more of an SPL sub than an SQ sub...

High efficiency, wonderful basket and excursion capability... but a more SPL oriented TC-sounds motor.  Big output.

Hey Geo, do you know if the W6 uses the same nifty "cooling" technique (that just so happens to reduce stray flux) as the W7?

Also, what DUMAX report were you refering to, the 10W7?  Are you sure that anomoly wasn't caused by noise in the testing room?  After all it looks to be rather minor.  In fact it sorta helps in that BL stays up there a little longer.

BL is reduced on the rearward stroke...

Stray magnetics were the cause, as a certain DUMAX engineer and loudspeaker designer reported...
Had the same issue with Elemental's A's, even on the production units.
They implemented a copper shielding inside the magnet rings, which fully eliminated it.

If you look at the W7's DUMAX plot, you'll see it's got a nice, flat BL curve.. on the forward stroke... where the coil is essentially travelling outside of the magnetic circuit loop.
On the rearward stroke however, it looks more parabolic... the BL rolls off.

And I'm definitely not surprised at the cooling technique sharing... they tried to engineer in a few W7-originated tricks into the W6V2.
However.. why do you think this would affect the magnetic flux fields?

Well here's the DUMAX report posted on Adire's site, and the one I was commenting on:

https://www.adireaudio.com/Files/DUMAX/JL-10W7.pdf

So the W6 is basically a stripped down, more affordable W7?  So the BL curve will be flat as well?

Dan Wiggins explained that although JL explains that the holes are there for cooling, they actually reduce stray flux.  By putting the holes there, it reduces the surface area, steering the flux into the gap where they want it.  But this doesn't reduce the amount of material in the pole piece by too much, so saturation isn't a problem.  Without those holes, the BL curve would be just as parabolic as any other overhung motor.

How did you think they got the flat curve?

Oh no, that 10W7 curve is very flat.  That's a flattering curve.

And I take it you mean the cooling vents that are... not the ones shown in JL's cutaway in their promotional material?

Dan was actually describing them to me when he visited my hotel at SEMA this year, but damn if we didnt' stay up until almost 2am... It's not the vents per-se that are having an effect on the flux.. directly.
But I roughly know what you speak of.

My comment was more with regard to the outside, excursion extremes, than to the center of the BL curve that you speak of...
As the coil travels into the motor, apparently the stray magnetics did affect the motor more on the 12W7 or 13W7 (I can't find my reports here).
With such a long coil, you'd expect more inductance, and more vulnerability to those magnetic fields.

Dan's a great guy, and fun to hang out with.  I'm not surprised you stayed up so late.

So could you elaborate on what does effect the flux in the W7?

And there are ways to reduce the inductance.  For one thing, don't they only use 2 layer voice coils?  That cuts it in half.

i have sold both eclipse and JL. I have had the chance to hear demo vehicles of both and I have to say that the titaniums lacked the transient response that i heard in the w7.  And yes Eclipse is very "enthusiastic" about their numbers, in a training they told us that their decks put out 40watts rms!! 

On a side note, xmax numbers mean very little in reality because your car may be able to get up to 180mph but it is the 0-60 that really matters in SQ terms.

JL3GEclipse wrote:

---

On a side note, xmax numbers mean very little in reality because your car may be able to get up to 180mph but it is the 0-60 that really matters in SQ terms.

---

Very good point.  But you will find that the better SQ subs will have larger excursions.  This is because at lower excursions, the woofer will stay more linear.

actually, you know rich vreeland, he is the enthusiastic one about their numbers.

Not bashing eclipse though, I have the CD8053...it rocks!!