Building enclosure for two JL10WOs?
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=23069
Printed Date: April 20, 2024 at 9:18 AM
Topic: Building enclosure for two JL10WOs?
Posted By: Rukuzz
Subject: Building enclosure for two JL10WOs?
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 11:24 AM
I have two JL10WOs hooked up to a sony xm2150gsx bridged at around 300w. I have two sealed boxes with dimensions: W=18", H=14", bottom depth=7.5", top depth=3". I just don't feel these boxes do the subs any justice.
I went to JL website and they recommend 0.50-0.90 cu.ft. With dimensions of 18x 11 x 10.25. https://www.jlaudio.com/subwoofers/pdfs/10_12_15W0_MAN.pdf
I ran the Subwoofer DIY v1.1 and came up with 1.10 cu.ft. with a desired QTC of 0.71. @1.10 I plan to build a box 13.75 x 14 x 14. Which will save me about 8" from my current setup. Of course I will have deeper boxes but that is not as big an issue. I think I can fit 14" depth wise.
Driver Specifications
Driver JL 10W0
Vas 69.400
Qts 0.394
Qes 0.413
fs 25.6
Xmax 8.60
Dia. 23.20
PEMax 125
My question is should I go with the 1.10 as calculated by the model or go with what JL recommends?
FYI: I have this setup on a Toyota Tundra AccessCab and the current boxes are taking up 36" accross the back seat. I would like to shrink that as much as possible for more hip room for a person to sit back there.
Replies:
Posted By: dcgc
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 11:53 AM
I don't think it is so much of your box as I do the amp
-------------
2003 Silverado Ext. cab
Kenwood mp922
Kenwood kgc6042a EQ
JL Audio xr650-csi
MB Quart PSC 213
JL Audio 300/4
pair of JL Audio 12w6v2
JL Audio 1000/1
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 12:18 PM
Oh don't get me wrong dcgc. The sound is good and I'm happy with it. It bumps as hard as I would want it too. I would just like to get more hip room in the back and the proper dimensions on the boxes because, of the differences from what JL recommends and the model. I just want to build something that is efficient an save me more space than my current setup.
As far as the amp. I know it's no JL, PPI, or RF. Unfortunately, I'm on a tight budget. It's a good little amp for the price and I've had no major problems, knock on wood, other than air venting in the two+ years I've had it. I had it locked up on the under the seat rear compartment with the lid on and i think I wasn't getting good air. It was sounding a little off but I took both lids from under the back seat put a little fan an A-OK. Other than that it hits the notes right where I want it. I had originally gotten a db drive POS that the local audio store recommended (they're pushing this brand pretty hard) and it wouldn't even go on and when it did it didn't even bump as hard as my sony. So, I don't think it's the amp.
Again I want to save some space but give the amps the cu.ft. to be at optimum efficiency. The last thing I want to to is build a box and have it sound worse than my current setup.
Besides that I'm saving my $$$ to replace all stock speakers and 2-tweets to go along with an RF amp. I'm thinking JL XR650CSi up front and XR650cw in the back.
Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 12:21 PM
JL puts a good amount of research into their recommended enclosure designs. Personally I would use .90 as the enclosure volume, it will give you a little less spl then if you wire to go smaller, but the sq will be better. Are your subs the 4 or 8 ohm model? Also how do you have them wired to the amp (series or parallel and is it bridged)? And how are all the x-overs and gain on your amp set at? And what head unit are you using and what are the x-overs set at? I would also double check to make sure your subs are in phase with one another.
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 12:41 PM
bberman1,
my subs are 8ohm each wired in series/2-channel bridged for a 4ohm load. If I remember correctly, and this is because I haven't messed with it much since I set it, the gain is set at half. The crossovers I don't remember and the HU is the stock Toyota HU. I tapped to the rear speakers for line-level input to the amp.
How do I make sure the subs are in phase?
Thanks for the info.
Posted By: bberman1
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 1:00 PM
Your problem is most likely that you have your subs wired in series. That presents the amp with a 16 ohm load bridged, which means its not putting out very much power. Wire your subs in parallel https://www.jlaudio.com/tutorials/wiring/index.html#2svcp for a 4 ohm load and then bridge them to your amp. This will increase your amps power output to 380 X1 @ 4 ohms bridged. Also check your Xover settings and post them.
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 2:41 PM
bberman1,
Sorry, I do have mine in parallel. The guys at the local audio store said the output would be more like 300. I haven't had a chance to check the settings but what are the recommneded settings?
Thanks
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 5:37 PM
I think I'll follow your advice bberman1 and go with JL's numbers. My dimensions will probably be 13.75 x 12.75 x 12.75 for a volume of 0.8972. That's as close to the recommended 0.90 from JL. This should save me about 8 inches in hip room. Thanks for your help bberman1. All I have to do is figure out if the xover settings are correct. Any advice?
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 19, 2003 at 7:58 PM
Rukuzz, out of phase leads to a loss of bass response, you need to ensure that both subs are going the same direction at the same time. It will not hurt the subs to be out of phase, just the noted loss of output. Disconnect the speakers from the amp, take a small battery and connect the - spk lead to the neg terminal on the battery, touch the + spk lead to the + terminal on the battery, this will cause the subs to "jump". If the subs are going in different directions when you do this, you have inadvertently connected a positive speaker lead to a negative speaker lead in your parallel connection. Start with your crossover around the 100hz area, play some tunes and adjust it up or down as your ears see fit, you will notice that as you turn that crossover up or down, the response will seem to either have a little more detail to it as you get lower or get a little "boomy" as you turn the crossover up. Your vehicle and your music you play and the level you play it at will have a lot to do with the crossover point, experiment with it, it may take a little while to nail it down.
-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 7:33 AM
Thanks guys for all your help!  I'll start building today after work and finish and test tomorrow. I'll fine tune the system and tell you if there are any improvements in the sound of the boxes. By the way where can I get the carpet to cover the boxes and what is the going price? Would I have to go to an audio store?
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 8:33 AM
One more question the volume calculator takes the thickness of the board in mind when calculating volume right? Or do I have to add 1.5" to make up the difference?
Posted By: twopolarbears
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 10:52 AM
Man, I hate to jump in here and kinda go a different direction, but Forbidden got me thinking. My son and I are building our first sub box starting this next week, right before christmas. He's got two 12" JBL GTO's, and a very inexpensive Sony Xplod amp. (He didn't want to spend a lot of money, and is just getting into this on his first car) Anyway, we are thinking of building one box, seperated in the middle to make two sealed enclosures. Forbidden's post about speakers going in different directions got me thinking. I need to know if the two sealed is okay, and if so, would I use one terminal cup, and have the neg and pos leads go to the same cup? Is there a better first time setup I should be thinking about? Like I said, this is a first for both of us, and unfortunately, I only know enough about car audio, signal flow, etc... to be dangerous. (i.e. parallel vs. series) Any help you can give me and my son would be greatly appreciated. Also, would it beveasible, or unadvisable, to build one large box, with a seperation between the speakers, but have one sealed, and the other ported? Anyway, thanks... John ------------- "If it JAMS, then FORCE IT! If it breaks, it needed to be fixed anyway!"
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 11:18 AM
John,
I had the same dilema with my truck. I was torn between the single unit or two individuals. In my case since I have an extended cab pickup I decided for the two individuals. This way when I have to have more space I just take one speaker out. It's all really about preference, if buit right either box should sound good. As far as the terminal cup, again it's all about preference and convenience. I have the two singles with each having a terminal cup. I hook the amp to one and then run wire to the next cup.
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 12:36 PM
Morning guys, sorry for the delay but here is some answers... 1) the volume calculator does take into account the thickness of the materials, it ask you for the material width, remember... (2) 1 box with 2 sealed chambers is fine as is 2 sealed boxes, actually the first is a really good idea, it actually makes the box a little stronger due to the center divider and also if you have a failure of one sub, the other will still work. For all you polar bears, up north I imagine, do not port that enclosure, only port it if the box is built to the cubic inch and the port length and width is calculated to that cubic inch. A sealed box is a much safer and usually a "better sounding" enclosure, a great first project for you. Post up the model# and make of the subs and the amp, I or someone else will get you pointed in the right direction. ------------- Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 12:38 PM
Sorry Rukuzz, forgot about the carpet issue. Most car audio stores, and some big box stores, carry a selection of trunkliner and automotive carpeting. The carpeting wears much better than the trunkliner, both are easy to work with and do not cost much.
-------------
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: twopolarbears
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 1:02 PM
Here's the info on subs and amps... Speakers: JBL GTO Series GT120 Here's the Sony AMP: XM-2165GTX This info is from the crutchfield site (which by the way, I'd love to know of a better place to buy stuff from). The stuff is going in the back of a 1996 Toyota Corolla (Sedan - 4doors, his first car), and from what he's told me, the area he's trying to fit the box in is 30" wide x 17" tall, and 20 " deep. That's the trunk space we have to work with. Also, when we run audio to his AMP, we use a pre-amp output from the head unit, correct? He's got a 4x25 watt head unit, and I think there's a pre-amp out, so it's not amplified, as in the audio that's headed to his other 4 speakers. LOL, does that make sense? See I told you I was dangerous. I'm going to have to run wire from the head unit back to his amp in the trunk from the pre-amp out, if I'm thinking correctly. Also, any tips on caulk / glue I should use? We are planning on 3/4" MDF, using 1.5" drywall screws to hold it together. I was thinking of one terminal cup, with wires from the second speaker, going through the center divider (sealed off around the wires of course), and attaching to the terminal cup with the first speaker. I don't want to get ahead of myself, so if this sounds good so far, I'd appreciate know that. LOL. Anyway, you've got the speaker / amp info. Thanks Forbidden, I really appreciate this. ------------- "If it JAMS, then FORCE IT! If it breaks, it needed to be fixed anyway!"
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 5:21 PM
Well, sorry for the delay, had to install a remote start, you have a mighty big box there, I'll do some more homework on it for you. Make sure that even though that is the space you have in the trunk, that you can actually get it into the trunk. Your best bet is to use the amp in stereo mode, it is not designed or engineered to operate in mono with the two subs you have chosen and the wiring method you are leading yourself towards. The best way for you to wire the system is as I mentioned in stereo mode, 2 channels of output, 1 for each subwoofer. You can wire the one sub into the others compartment, seal with silicone (tie the wire on each side to prevent it from pulling through in either direction). Use two terminal cups. For wiring the amp, you are on the right track with the rca cable, you are also going to need to run a "remote on" wire from the cd player to the amplifier, this wire turns on the amp when the stereo is turned on. The common wire color for a remote on lead is either blue or blue / white depending on the manufacturer. If both wires are present on the cd player, make sure you connect to the remote on and not power antenna lead. Do not run the rca cables anywhere near the power and ground wires (or remote on), run the rca cables down one side of the car, the power, remote on down the other side. Make sure you have a nice clean ground point, a seatbelt bolt is not the best place usually. Clean the paint off and attach the ground wire at this new point. Make sure you fuse the power line no further than 18" away from the battery, this is to protect the vcehicle from an inadvertent short in the power line. Make sure the fuse is at least the same size as that of the amplifier. You should be using a minumum of 8 gauge power and ground wire, 4 gauge would actually be a little better though. This should be enough to keep you busy for now. Enjoy! ------------- Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 20, 2003 at 5:36 PM
For the box volume I would recommend that you start off with a sealed box, it is easy to build, very forgiving and sounds quite good. The ported box will usually play louder and a little deeper, sometimes they work great - other times they sacrifice finesse.Build your box to a cubic volume of 2.2 cu.ft approximately. Here is the math l x w x h = cu.ft. l x w x h = 1728 cu in = 1 cu.ft. 12" x 12" x 12" = 1728 = 1 Any combination of numbers that equal 1728 is going to equal 1 cu.ft For 2.2 cu.ft. you need approx 3800 cu.inches of airspace, this is an internal volume measuement, make sure you allow for the width of your materials. If I was building this box I would build it as follows Top and Bottom 29.75" x 115/16" Front and Back 29.75" x 14.5" Ends (3) 9.75" x 14.5" This box will only assemble in one way, the ends and front back are between the top and bottom. The reason for the extra little bit on the top and bottom is to allow a little room for error when assembling the box and space for glue to expand. Use a good amount of wood glue, predrill all screw holes, do not put screw to close to the end or the mdf will split. Silicone all inside seams. Once the sicilcone has dried, spray paint the inside of the sub box, this is to seal the box, mdf is very porous. Add a small amount of dacron (pillow stuffing material) and lightly fill the enclosure. Salt to taste. ------------- Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 21, 2003 at 7:37 PM
forbidden,
I'm almost done. Next time I'll have home depot do all the cutting for me. My cuts were a little off!  I got it though I just have to put the lid and cut the speaker hole. I have one question about the screws. Put the for walls and floor on my box, with liquid nails, and drilled a hole for the screws. I drove the screw in and the MDF split. I had to take off one side and replace. I have since put it back together with no screws. I think I might've used a drill bit size too small. Anyway, I'm a little gun shy, I've since stapled the wall's with 1/2" Arrow Type T50 rustproof staples. I've stapled at the corners and down the walls on the outside. Will this be enough or should I try the screws again?
Thanks for all the info forbidden!
Posted By: Durwood
Date Posted: December 21, 2003 at 7:55 PM
Rukuzz wrote:
forbidden,
I'm almost done. Next time I'll have home depot do all the cutting for me. My cuts were a little off! I got it though I just have to put the lid and cut the speaker hole. I have one question about the screws. Put the for walls and floor on my box, with liquid nails, and drilled a hole for the screws. I drove the screw in and the MDF split. I had to take off one side and replace. I have since put it back together with no screws. I think I might've used a drill bit size too small. Anyway, I'm a little gun shy, I've since stapled the wall's with 1/2" Arrow Type T50 rustproof staples. I've stapled at the corners and down the walls on the outside. Will this be enough or should I try the screws again?
Thanks for all the info forbidden!
How thick was the MDF that you used? I seem to recall that you decided on 3/4". If that's the case, I don't think 1/2" staples are of any benefit, since they won't even penetrate the first piece of wood, much less bite into the piece underneath. Maybe I misunderstood what you were doing with the staples? I'd try again with the screws. Just experiment with your scrap piece to find a pilot hole size that will give the screws a good bite without splitting the MDF. Try to drill your screws through the face of the MDF, rather than into an edge. MDF doesn't have a "grain" the way conventional wood sheeting does, but it will definitely split more easily if you drill into the edge of a piece, especially with an undersized pilot hole. Scott Gardner
Posted By: Rukuzz
Date Posted: December 21, 2003 at 8:39 PM
Sorry Scott for not explaining better. I still haven't paced the top lid on so I put staples at the corners 2 holding the top together. Then I went on the outside and placed staples at the edges. Picture the corner walls on the flat surface is where I attached them to hold both. I know there is now way to send a 1/2" staple across a 3/4" piece of MDF. I got some left over pieces of MDF so I'll try with the screws again. Shoul I go with 1.5" or 2".
Posted By: dcgc
Date Posted: December 21, 2003 at 10:46 PM
with the trouble your having I would space the 1.5" about 1.5" apart.
-------------
2003 Silverado Ext. cab
Kenwood mp922
Kenwood kgc6042a EQ
JL Audio xr650-csi
MB Quart PSC 213
JL Audio 300/4
pair of JL Audio 12w6v2
JL Audio 1000/1
Posted By: twopolarbears
Date Posted: December 22, 2003 at 12:45 AM
forbidden wrote:
For the box volume I would recommend that you start off with a sealed box, it is easy to build, very forgiving and sounds quite good. The ported box will usually play louder and a little deeper, sometimes they work great - other times they sacrifice finesse.Build your box to a cubic volume of 2.2 cu.ft approximately. Here is the math l x w x h = cu.ft. l x w x h = 1728 cu in = 1 cu.ft. 12" x 12" x 12" = 1728 = 1 Any combination of numbers that equal 1728 is going to equal 1 cu.ft For 2.2 cu.ft. you need approx 3800 cu.inches of airspace, this is an internal volume measuement, make sure you allow for the width of your materials. If I was building this box I would build it as follows Top and Bottom 29.75" x 115/16" Front and Back 29.75" x 14.5" Ends (3) 9.75" x 14.5" This box will only assemble in one way, the ends and front back are between the top and bottom. The reason for the extra little bit on the top and bottom is to allow a little room for error when assembling the box and space for glue to expand. Use a good amount of wood glue, predrill all screw holes, do not put screw to close to the end or the mdf will split. Silicone all inside seams. Once the sicilcone has dried, spray paint the inside of the sub box, this is to seal the box, mdf is very porous. Add a small amount of dacron (pillow stuffing material) and lightly fill the enclosure. Salt to taste.
Wow, your measurements are just about spot on for what we had. We are making the back of the box actually have a pocket in it, basically having the sides and the top and bottom extend back about three inches farther than they normally would for the amp to sit in, and be protected from hitting anything...so to speak. Anyway, I've got a couple of questions about your post. You mention the reason for a little bit extra on the top and bottom is to allow for error during assembly, and for glue to expand, yet the measurements you put up indicate that 'extra' room to be about an inch and a half (1 1/2), that is if your top and bottom measurements (which I have quoted above) are supposed to be 29.75 x 11 5/16 (not 115/16). I need clarification on that. Also, your's is not the first time I've seen mention of fiber fill. Where do I get it, and how much goes in the cavity (speaker area)? Do I 'loosely fill' the entire inside of the speaker enclosure? And the Spray paint..any spray paint, just to get it coated? And why... does it matter that the MDF is porous? I don't see how that fits in the scheme of things here. And lastly... the silicone. Every seem, right?!? And do I use any special silicone? Wait, I lied, that wasn't my last thing...this is... If we carpet the box, and we plan too, do I let the carpet go under the actual speaker frame, and tuck into the box at the speaker opening? I ask because both speakers have a 'seal' that is supposed to go down before the speakers get attached... Let me just say a BIG THANKS! for all of this... John ------------- "If it JAMS, then FORCE IT! If it breaks, it needed to be fixed anyway!"
Posted By: twopolarbears
Date Posted: December 22, 2003 at 1:31 AM
Forbidden, I forgot to ask... are we going to need a electronic crossover network? The speakers came with a diagram for a typical installation of a system with one head unit, sending audio to a crossover network, then split and sending it to two amps, one that runs a sub, the other that runs the other speakers in the car. We only have a one amp application, and that amp is the one to power these two subs. Also, as is I haven't asked you enough things, (but anyone can chime in on this question) Should we use 10 or 12 gauge wire from amp to speaker? Thanks, John ------------- "If it JAMS, then FORCE IT! If it breaks, it needed to be fixed anyway!"
Posted By: Durwood
Date Posted: December 22, 2003 at 7:30 AM
twopolarbears wrote:
Also, as if I haven't asked you enough things, (but anyone can chime in on this question) Should we use 10 or 12 gauge wire from amp to speaker?
I can't find my reference for this, but I think it's been demonstrated in the past that anything over 12-gauge is probably unnecessary for amp-to-sub wiring. Scott Gardner
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: December 22, 2003 at 4:47 PM
You will not need an electronic crossover, you have one built into the amplifier. Sorry about the typo on the measurement, it is as you corrected it. However it is not 1.5" too wide. If you take the width ot the top and bottom board at 11 5/16 and look at the combined measurement of the front / back and end, they are .75" + 9.75" +.75" = 11.25". A sealed box should be sealed the best it can, raw mdf is extremely porous, hence it bleeds air. A spray can of any paint applied to the inside of the box usually seals the box up really nice. Any silicone will work, one that is designed for exterior use would probably be best as a vehicle can go from extreme cold to extreme heat. For the dacron, yes, loosely fill the enclosure with it. A 12 gauge speaker wire is more than enough. Tuck the upholstery around the speaker cutout, make sure you use a truckload of spray glue (3M works best). In most cases if the sub is mounted and torqued down, the sub will crush the fabric enought to provide a good seal. Good luck with everything, sorry for the delay, came down with the flu.
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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: twopolarbears
Date Posted: December 22, 2003 at 11:01 PM
That's awesome info. THANKS! I think we are going to be makign our first cuts in the MDF tomorrow. We picked up our terminal cups, MDF, and silicone sealant today, and are ready to begin. I guess I will have to crank the heater in the garage. LOL. Thanks for the info. When I get the chance, I will upload a pic on here of it, hopefully by this time next week. Thanks again... John P.S. The speaker wire we have is 14 gauge.. I will assume no news is good news, so unless you think I should use something different, I won't expect a reply. Thanks again. ------------- "If it JAMS, then FORCE IT! If it breaks, it needed to be fixed anyway!"
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