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Crossfire VS. RF

Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=25984
Printed Date: April 27, 2024 at 3:27 PM


Topic: Crossfire VS. RF

Posted By: thapimpfromchi
Subject: Crossfire VS. RF
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 1:53 AM

Hey guys, i was at my local car audio shop today, looking to buy amps. Here i am looking at a mammoth 4000 watt amp  (dont ask why, but i was), and the owner comes up, asks me what im lookin for, i say i need 1000 watts, minimum. He asks what i was powering. I tell him 3 MA Audio 100D6 subs. (350 rms x 3 = 1050) So yea, im lookin for a 1000 watt amp. Well, he said that using 1000 watts was absurd. That i didnt need that much power. (WTF!) Anyways, he goes over and points out a Crossfire amp. The VR600D amp. according to him, that amp puts out 800 watts at 4 ohms. His words were "this crossfire amp would walk all over your rockford." Right now, i am using a rockford fosgate 700s. (700watts @ 4 ohms). My computer has a virus on it, and wont let me bring up more than one browser, and doesnt like java scripts at all either. So, i couldnt really find info on that amp. However, i went to the only site that popped up, which was in japanese or something, and from what i could make out, that amp makes 150w @ 4 ohms, and 600w @ 1 ohm. if any of you has any info on that amp that you could share, that would be great. Also, assuming, i could find a similarly matched Crossfire amp (700 watts, for comparisons sake) which  amp would be better? the crossfire or the RF? Thanks alot.

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1990 Honda Civic HB:
Clarion DXZ545MP H.U.
2- 6.5" Power Acoustik interiors
Diamond Audio 600.1 amp
Diamond Audio 15" M6MKII
Pyramid PB881X 4 CH. Amp



Replies:

Posted By: bfog99
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 2:42 AM
these are the specs from the cross fire website:
Technical Specifications
High current Class "D" subwoofer amplifier, 150w x 1RMS into 4 ohms Continuously variable 12dB x-over between 50 and 250Hz, Continuously variable subsonic filter between 20 and 50Hz with on/off circuit, RCA preamp output, CFR-3 analog subwoofer level control, 600W x1 into 1 ohm

it did also say that it was 300 x 1 @ 2 ohms. as far as what would be better, i couldn't answer that. hope this helps.





Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 10:46 AM
Your Rockford is fine. You dont need a crossfire it wouldnt be any better.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 1:59 PM
Crossfire has been in the class D sub amp business much longer than Rockford and I as a dealer of both would sell a Crossfire over the Rockford any day. That Crossfire amp is way underrated as well, If memory is correct it has a 80 amp fuse recommended for it. What is the impedance of your subs? This will tell me what amp is best for you.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 2:20 PM

forbidden

Why are you always comparing amps with their fuse sizes? It is like the roughest possible way to compare amps. Just read their specs.





Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 4:39 PM

Amplifiers are called amps for a reason, they are not called wattlifiers for the same reason. The size of a fuse in an amp is a very good indication of what kind of output the amp is really capable of. Another thing to consider is the efficiency of the amp, a Class D Crossfire is on the average of 80% efficient vs. maybe 55% efficient in a Class AB Rockford. What happens to a lot of people that read specs is that they read what they want to see instead of what they need to see. For most people they do not compare things on a level playing field. An indication in this case of why I asked for the fuse size is fairly simple.

12 volts x 80 amps = 960 watts (at 100% efficientcy). This amp was only rated at 150 watts @ 40hm and 600 watts @ 1 ohm, this amp in particular has always exceeded it's recommended power, as do alot of others in the industry. It also has a subsonic filter built in to eliminate alot of wasted power, this in turn delivers much more of the amplifiers power into usable power in the amplified frequency range.Be it a good amp or not, it still has to be matched to the sub(s) properly, which is why I asked what the impedance is and now am asking for the number of voice coils, single or dual.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: thapimpfromchi
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 5:02 PM
this is for forbidden. I am looking to power 3-10" MA Audio 100D6, subs. They are dual 6 ohms subs. 350 watts rms, 700 peak. I currently have them wired down to 4 ohms, if neccessary i can go down to one ohm, but i prefer the cleaner bass.

-------------
1990 Honda Civic HB:
Clarion DXZ545MP H.U.
2- 6.5" Power Acoustik interiors
Diamond Audio 600.1 amp
Diamond Audio 15" M6MKII
Pyramid PB881X 4 CH. Amp




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 6:04 PM

Cleaner bass will have more to do with the box than the impedance that the amp is seeing. Your subs can either series / parallel wire to 4 ohm mono or all parallel wire to 1 ohm mono. In either case you need an amp that has a big bejesus output of 1200w rms at either 4 ohm mono or 1 ohm mono. This leads you to either a monster 2 channel amp that is on a real good day 70% efficient, or a class D which on a real bad day is 70% efficient. I would head in the direction of the class D mono sub amp, as some have a subsonic filter built into them. This filter will no doubt make a more efficient use of power and protect the subs from damaging bottom end. Either amp is going to have a good size current draw.

Now just because the subs say they can take 350w rms does not mean that you need to power them that way. Any sub can and will play with a lower power rating and do a great job at it, provided you do not throw a clipped signal into them. This is the danger of a amp that is too small and in some cases a cd player with a low preout ot clipped preout signal. If you are one that wants to annoy the neighbourhood with big bad bottom end that you want to play all the time, then you are the person who needs a big amp, more power than recommended is fine. Make sure that the gains are set right and do not clip the input signal from the cd player, as even the best amp that is too big can cause damaga to a sub if it is given a clipped signal from a cd player.



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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 7:17 PM
An amp's damping factor (the amount of control the amp has on a speaker's movement) does goes down as the impedance drops. If you have a 1 ohm impedance your amp definitely wont have as much control over a sub as it would at a higher impedance. If you have some cash to spend JL's 1000/1 outputs 1000 watts RMS so it would it would be a good match for your subs because if you take 12volts times 100 amps (Which is the fuse rating reccomended for the JL amp) you get 1200 watts. And it has a subsonic filter which isnt that neccessary unless you have a ported box or bandpass box.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 7:23 PM
Good point on the damping factor, I usually don't mention it. I bet the JL would be a great amp for those subs!

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.




Posted By: thapimpfromchi
Date Posted: February 07, 2004 at 7:55 PM

From what I have heard is that the lower the impedance lead to the amp, the sloppier the output signal. Which is why I was looking for something at 4 ohms. I was thinking possibly a RF 1050s amp, which is exactly what I need. I would really like to buy the JL audio amp, but they are pretty expensive. I am alllllll about the Hard Hitting tight low end bass. I could care less if it plugs my ears, i just wanna be able to start my heart back up if im having a heart attack. lol.



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1990 Honda Civic HB:
Clarion DXZ545MP H.U.
2- 6.5" Power Acoustik interiors
Diamond Audio 600.1 amp
Diamond Audio 15" M6MKII
Pyramid PB881X 4 CH. Amp




Posted By: Teamrf
Date Posted: February 08, 2004 at 2:52 AM
Let me step in on this post and put in my two cent. Crossfire is a pretty decent amp. And will most likely beat any RF "punch" line amp. But as far as the new RF line (2004) I doubt Crossfire is going to have a product that will compete.

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~The Rookie~
Rookie of the year that is...
Don't let the smoke out of your equiptment..it doesn't go back in.




Posted By: customsuburb
Date Posted: February 08, 2004 at 1:22 PM
What is so different about the 2004 line of RF products ,besides new looks, from the older models?




Posted By: spl_enterprise
Date Posted: February 10, 2004 at 11:06 PM
nothing. fosgates quality is declining is you ask me. take those power series junkers or whatever theyre called. the ones with the stealth end caps that are like 2400-2600 watts (thats what they say) they are only 900 watts rms. thats all that matters and they suck. they cant handle the low impedences for sh*t either. ive done a few installs with like a single dvc 12" running at 2 ohms bridged and it wouldnt handle it. it overheated and crapped out. you have to put your own fuses on it since it has no on-board fuses (claming its a true clean-power amp.) how many amps that cost $500+ dollars cant take 2 ohms? cant think of many.

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Pete - SPL Enterprise Inc.




Posted By: thapimpfromchi
Date Posted: February 10, 2004 at 11:30 PM
Yea, good point. I was just wondering also, if anyone has ever looked at an RF amp lately, their peak power is always three 3x the RMS power. how the hell did they get that figure? Generally, the peak wattage is equivalent to 2x the peak (give or take a few). I was looking at a RF amp, the... 800s (i think), the specs were 800 watts by 1, at 4 ohms (bridged), 400 x 2 @ 2 ohms, and 200 x 2 @ 4 ohms. Oddly enough, the peak power was 2400 watts. That was just an example, (real specs though) lol thanks.

-------------
1990 Honda Civic HB:
Clarion DXZ545MP H.U.
2- 6.5" Power Acoustik interiors
Diamond Audio 600.1 amp
Diamond Audio 15" M6MKII
Pyramid PB881X 4 CH. Amp




Posted By: spl_enterprise
Date Posted: February 11, 2004 at 8:32 AM
the crossfire product is pretty damn good is you ask me. i did an install with like 6 bmf-12's and it slammed pretty nice. as for the amps, they are pretty good. id compare them to being almost as good to an hcca, but not quite.

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Pete - SPL Enterprise Inc.




Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: February 11, 2004 at 1:27 PM
I would not be surprised at all if Rockford took a page from Crossfire's design book to build their new amps, Crossfire will be able to compete with Rockford and others any day of the week.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.





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