sub facing up or down
Printed From: the12volt.com
Forum Name: Car Audio
Forum Discription: Car Stereos, Amplifiers, Crossovers, Processors, Speakers, Subwoofers, etc.
URL: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=29687
Printed Date: July 05, 2025 at 11:26 AM
Topic: sub facing up or down
Posted By: eeh1025
Subject: sub facing up or down
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 8:55 PM
hey guys i was wondering what affect does mounting the sub upside down do. is it better. do you face all of them or one not the other, whats the deal,
thanks alot
Ernie
Replies:
Posted By: Ketel22
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 8:57 PM
well it changes the box size, and you do need to reverse the polarity if you do that.
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Quad L Handyman services
Posted By: speedwayaudio1
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 9:06 PM
yes like ketel22 said you must reverse polarity. I found no differance in sound some will say they do, but I don't. I run 8 12's inverted cause I like the way it looks and it gets noticed and it helps sell product.
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Big Dave
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 9:07 PM
what do you mean by reverse the polarity?
Posted By: Clean Install
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 9:08 PM
You can have any number of subs inverted if you want to do 2/1 1/2 all three its up to you and yes Ketel22 is right the box size changes, due to the fact that the magnet is no longer taking up space within the box.....an also reverse the polarity of the sub(s) that are inverted ------------- If we learn from each success and
each failure, then we can improve ourselves
Posted By: Clean Install
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 9:09 PM
switch the pos and neg around ------------- If we learn from each success and
each failure, then we can improve ourselves
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 9:16 PM
oh so instead of hooking up a + to + you hook up the + to - i get it. also if does the enclosure need to be smaller call it be the same size, like sub im using need about 1cubic will this stay the same if i turn the sub around. thanks alot
Ernie
Posted By: Clean Install
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 9:48 PM
it would be a little bit less, what type of subs are you going to be running, why I ask is do to the magnet size, ------------- If we learn from each success and
each failure, then we can improve ourselves
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 10:01 PM
hey there the subs are JL audio 12w6s, not v2. thanks alot
Ernie
Posted By: Clean Install
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 10:11 PM
well the magnet on those is not very big so you would not have to make the box to much smaller but I would determine a ruff estimate of the amount of airspace the drive takes up....or maybe someone might just happen to know about how much, then build your new box.. ------------- If we learn from each success and
each failure, then we can improve ourselves
Posted By: stevdart
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 10:22 PM
Figure 0.085 cu ft for the driver displacement.
Posted By: BangBang
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 10:25 PM
just because you switch the sub woofer un side down or inside out. you have to change the wiring? thats weird and stupid if you ask me.. I dont know the result of that.. but could you give me an example?
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Posted By: Ketel22
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 10:55 PM
well ive blown a brand new w3v2 just because i inverted the sub and was new to car audio and didnt know that you are supposed to wire the sub out of phase.
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Quad L Handyman services
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 11:04 PM
okay guys im going to hook them up backwards,
NOW im running them parallel, so is this what im susposed to do, i will run 2 small sets of wire from +to+ -to- on each sub, then from the amp i run the negitive to the positive on each sub them the POsitive to the negitive on each sub. Is this correct. thanks alot
also whats the best way to hide the wires. thanks
Ernie
Posted By: Ketel22
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 11:09 PM
you wont need to run the negative to the positives of both subs only one of them, same with the positives and negative of both subs. ------------- Quad L Handyman services
Posted By: BangBang
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 11:17 PM
Ketel22 wrote:
well ive blown a brand new w3v2 just because i inverted the sub and was new to car audio and didnt know that you are supposed to wire the sub out of phase.
you've blown a sub wow.! also out of phase. it sounds weak y would u want them to sound weak?! -------------
Posted By: Clean Install
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 11:34 PM
I am confused at what you mean by weak? also bangbang how can you tell that a sub is out of phase? ------------- If we learn from each success and
each failure, then we can improve ourselves
Posted By: Clean Install
Date Posted: April 04, 2004 at 11:38 PM
Ketel22 wrote:
you wont need to run the negative to the positives of both subs only one of them, same with the positives and negative of both subs.
Ketel is correct just from the amp to the 1st sub, then pos+ to pos+ and neg- to neg- ------------- If we learn from each success and
each failure, then we can improve ourselves
Posted By: thapimpfromchi
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 2:18 AM
the sub you are going to reverse, u have to reverse the wiring. if the others will be left alone, leave their wiring alone. LIsten to ketel and clean install. they know what they are talkin about. Good luck.
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1990 Honda Civic HB:
Clarion DXZ545MP H.U.
2- 6.5" Power Acoustik interiors
Diamond Audio 600.1 amp
Diamond Audio 15" M6MKII
Pyramid PB881X 4 CH. Amp
Posted By: aggie altima
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 2:23 AM
Subs don't sound "weak" when they are out of phase AND inverted. Look at a sub when it hits and you'll see the cone push out of the box. So if you invert the sub, you would be pushing air into the box. THATS why you reverse the polarity of the sub, so the sub act's as if it were facing out of the box.
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Jon
Don't like rockford subs? Then don't look at my car =)
Posted By: Clean Install
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 2:33 AM
BangBang wrote:
Ketel22 wrote:
well ive blown a brand new w3v2 just because i inverted the sub and was new to car audio and didnt know that you are supposed to wire the sub out of phase.
you've blown a sub wow.!also out of phase. it sounds weak y would u want them to sound weak?!
BangBang wrote:
just because you switch the sub woofer un side down or inside out. you have to change the wiring? thats weird and stupid if you ask me.. I dont know the result of that.. but could you give me an example?
? ------------- If we learn from each success and
each failure, then we can improve ourselves
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 9:20 AM
okay i think i under stand is this what your saying.
i will tak the - and + from the amp and hook it up - to + and + to - on the first sub them run wire from that sub to the others going +to+ -to- correct. also what the the ohm load be if i do it this way? thak alot guys
Ernie
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 11:59 AM
There is no difference sonically between having the magnet assembly inside the enclosure and having it outside. The decision to mount a speaker like that is purely cosmetic. The key to proper operation has been posted in this thread and elsewhere, but here's my summary: 1. The size of the enclosure must be reduced to compensate for inverting the driver. You must reduce the gross size by TWICE the displacement of the cone since you have not only removed the magnet assembly from inside the enclosure, you have also ADDED the volume inside the cone to the enclosure internal volume. 2. Reversing speaker polarity is necessary if you want to maintain its electrical polarity in relation to the rest of the system. If your amplifier or crossover has polarity control, you don't need to worry about this. 3. The speaker is MUCH more subject to external physical damage when it is sticking out into the air than when it is hidden inside the enclosure. Be aware of this when choosing your mounting location. Also, you may need to weigh doen or bolt down the enclosure depending on how heavy the magnet assembly is. 4. Since the cone (the speaker radiator) is now outside the enclosure, it effectively moves forward in relation to the enclosure baffle. This can have an effect on time alignment and on acoustical cancellation effects, although in sub-bass frequencies below 100 Hz it may or may not be noticeable. 5. If you are thinking about mounting your woofer sticking straight UP, then you must choose a woofer designed for down-firing applications. Otherwise you can easily exceed the excursion capability of the speaker assembly and fry your voice coil.
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 12:23 PM
okay im going to do a wedge style box, and can i still do this wiring setup if there mounted outside?
thanks for the help.
Ernie
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 12:23 PM
Sure.
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 12:50 PM
also whats the Best what to hide the wires, i have a 250ft roll of Streetwires 12gauge ultra cable so its not that ugly but is there any other ways? thanks
Ernie
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 1:00 PM
one more question, when i mount it upside down what do i do with the carboard gasket around the subs top. thanks agian.
Ernie
Posted By: superstreet786
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 1:30 PM
still use it... keeps air from escaping...
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---- 1996 Chevy S10 ----
1 Lightning Audio S2.600.2 Amp
2 Lightning Audio 12" Subs
1 Lightning Audio 1 Farad Cap
Posted By: superstreet786
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 1:31 PM
well unless that gasket is on the underside of the lip
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---- 1996 Chevy S10 ----
1 Lightning Audio S2.600.2 Amp
2 Lightning Audio 12" Subs
1 Lightning Audio 1 Farad Cap
Posted By: DYohn
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 1:32 PM
eeh1025 wrote:
also whats the Best what to hide the wires, i have a 250ft roll of Streetwires 12gauge ultra cable so its not that ugly but is there any other ways? thanks
Ernie
If your speakers are mounted with the voice coils hanging out in the air, you CAN'T hide the wires. This is another drawback, I suppose. The only thing you could do is try and make them look nice.
Posted By: Clean Install
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 8:13 PM
having them organized or all lookin' the same would be best ....I just would not have them looping from one sub to the next if you know what I mean....good luck with the install...
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If we learn from each success and
each failure, then we can improve ourselves
Posted By: forbidden
Date Posted: April 05, 2004 at 9:11 PM
Dyohn forgot one thing on his last post, and it has been done but is a costly upgrade that must be done by the manufacturer. And I find no fault with him for overlooking such a costly and custom task. When you invert the subs it is also possible to modify them to hide the speaker wiring, this is done by removing the dust caps and refabricating the voice coil tinsel leads. The leads are rerouted through the dust cap opening and then routed inside of the enclosure. A neat idea that gives the impression of no wires hooked up to the sub.
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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
Posted By: eeh1025
Date Posted: April 06, 2004 at 10:09 PM
hey guys i want to make a box like this but it looks pretty hard to chamber each sub what do you guys suggest i do, make it one big chamber or chamber each sub and how. thanks alot guys.
Ernie
Posted By: Ravendarat
Date Posted: April 06, 2004 at 10:12 PM
I have never heard of someone doing what forbidden said. Thats really an amazing Idea. What sub companies have you seen do this. Also to answer the above question, as hard as it sounds, make sure you chamber the box man. Thats how you get the best preformance
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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
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