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Ok well this will be my first real system, Back in high school i had 2 10" punch subs in a bandpass with a small RF amp if you wanna call that a system.
Anyway to the real point of this post. I'm looking to get a good sounding system in my car, i've picked out most of the stuff i think i'll need. I'm looking for some opinions on my selections, any idea's you guys might have.
So here's what i have picked out
HU
Alpine CDA-9833

Sub Amp
Phoenix Gold Xenon X400.1 400W RMS 1-4Ohms

Comp Amp
Phoenix Gold Xenon X100x2 100Wx2 1-4Ohms

Line Driver
Phoenix Gold Tantrum TLD66

Components
Image Dynamics CS 1.6 6 1/2 Midbass Tweets are HLCD
(HLCD Horn Loaded Compression Driver)

Sub
Alpine Type R 12" Dual 2Ohm VC

Also other random things
Remote voltage monitor for the amps
The sub wil be in a .86 cu/ft sealed enclosure (custom made sub displacment is figured in)
Wire will be 4 gauge fused to a distro block 8 gauge from the block to the amps.

It doesn't look like you need help at this point...

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

lol well i've been thinking about going with a dif sub.
I've been looking at the brahma 12 powered buy a PG X1200.1
Just to let you know i have 2500 to spend on this system, now the one listed above i can pick up for 2000$
If i switch out the alpne for the brahma, and the X400.1 for the X1200.1 it comes to around 2400 And i'm sure i can get some of the things cheaper. that new price is with the brahma the 1200.1 and adire audio premade box. i did'nt find a prive on the box so i figured in 200 for it.

Looks like a nice set up, what kind of car is it going in? How many sets of components are you throwing in? If you really want it to be a tight system, try to get everything from the same brand. Since you've chosen an Alpine HU & sub, why not go all Alpine? The AlpineType X components have amazing bass and crystal clear highs and mids. The Alpine V12 AccuClass amps are great but expensive.

AFAIAC, stay away from the compression drivers... If you want REAL sound quality, and if you want to keep them, don't ever look at their output on an RTA... I know. everybody is gonna say "If they sound good to him..." and I agree, I was just adding my two cents.

The Brahma is a GREAT choice, and will give you good output, as well.

I might consider an Eclipse HU, instead of the Alpine as well...

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

I agree with haemphyst that the ID horn loaded tweeters are not the greatest for SQ, especially not for imaging. Placement is HIGHLY critical and a slight off-axis position will result in very noticable rolloff and harshness above 3500 Hz. A much better choice for SQ would be a dome tweeter, prefereably a soft dome of you really want smooth response and flat frequency response (not always the best sounding in a car, granted, but the best performance on the trusty RTA!)

The Alpine HU should be sufficient as long as you don't push it towards max output, and it matches up nicely as high mid-level equipment with the PG amps. If you go for better amps, then I agree that an Eclipse or Nakamichi HU would sound a LOT better. Why do you feel you will need a line driver?

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ok i changed up a bit after doing some looking around and making some calls, Now i can't go and listen to any adire products as there are no dealers or anyone with adire around here. but everyone i've talked to raves about them. anyhow so i've changed the system some. Still going with the alpine HU cause i've had 2 alpine decks before this and i loved both. anyway here's the new line up.
HU
Alpine CDA-9833
Sub Amp
Phoenix Gold Xenon X1200.1
Comp Amp
Phoenix Gold Xenon X100.2
Components
Adire Koda 6 1/2
Sub
Adire Brahma 12" in a sealed 1 cu/ft box
Sub will be inverted cause i like how it looks.
Line Driver
Phoenix Gold Tantrum TLD66 6 Channel 8 volt
Wiring and other randomness
1/0 back to distro then 8 guage to the 100.2 and 4 off the the 1200.1
Yellow top
170amp alternator

Good call on the Koda components. But I always recomend that you buy NOTHING if you haven't heard it. What brands ARE available in your area? And again, why do you feel you need a line driver?

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Not much
Rockford Fosgate
Audiobahn
Cadence
and thats about it other then what they sell at wal-mart.
I went with the linr driver to get a full 8 volts to my amp. as i've heard it will give you cleaner outpit from your amp.

oh ya any idea's on where to get a 170+ amp alt? car is 1999 ford escort

FZRaven wrote:

Not much
Rockford Fosgate
Audiobahn
Cadence
and thats about it other then what they sell at wal-mart.
I went with the linr driver to get a full 8 volts to my amp. as i've heard it will give you cleaner outpit from your amp.

"Not much" is right. Where do you live, maybe I can help.

You do not "need" a line driver unless you are driving more than three amps or your line-level cable run is more than 20 feet long. Indeed, you may add more problems if you do not set it up properly. What do you mean by "a full 8 volts"? Who told you this was a good thing or even desireable? Many amps cannot handle that high an input voltage. The PG amps you listed will handle a maximum of an 8-volt input with gain turned to minimum, but it is certainly not necessary to use one.

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I live in upstate NY way up bout 20 mins from canada.
sorry they sell memphis also i forgot about that.
Ok scratch the line booster.
also if it helps the midbass will be mounted in the stock location with some spacers so i can still roll down my window. the tweets will be mounted on an angle on the door.

Memphis! Aha. Memphis Audio will outclass anything you have listed as far as I'm concerned. Go listen to some Memphis M-Class components. Any Memphis amp will blow away any Phoenix Gold amp in terms of SQ, every time.

I wasn't trying to tell you to scratch the line driver, only to make sure you were buying it for a legitimate reason, not simply because some salesman told you to get one. :) Anytime you add a component into the audio signal chain you add the chance for noise and interference. So if you need one, get it, but only if you need to.

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Just some of my suggestions: Go with Memphis for your amps instead of Phoenix Gold and maybe look at using an Eclipse head-unit instead of an alpine if you can. I'm sure someone on this forum can help you out with that.

Well i tink the only thing i might change about the system is the amps and the comps. i listened to them before when i was at the shop and they do sound good. But as for the sub i'm gunna stick with the brahma. also the amp i wa looking at is 1500w at 2ohms and 750w at 4, The subs gunna be inverted in a 1 cu/ft box, the box will prolly turn out a little smaller then 1 cu/ft with all the braces in there. so this should provide about the right amount of power right? Also does inverting it affect sound quality at all? I really want to invert it, so people can see this monster when i open my trunk.

Well i went over the the audio shop and talked with the guys there and this is what we came up with.
HU
Alpine CDA-9830

Sub Amp
Memphis 16-MC1500D 519$
750x1 4ohm
1500x1 2ohm
Comp Amp
Memphis 16-MC3004 260$
75x4 4ohm
115x4 2ohm

Components
Memphis MClass 6 1/2 349$ + 20% discount

Sub
Adire Brahma 12" in a 1 cu/ft sealed box

Grand Total
1977$
This is before wire, enclosure and new alt cost.
I have 2500$ to spend so i think it should fall within my range.
From what i've read on the adire site with a 1 cu/ft box 750 should do very nicely.
One question i did have is this, does inverting a sub affect how much power it can handle?

re: inverting a sub. If the enclosure is the proper size, the only effect inverting a sub has is it is easier to damage it because the moving parts are sticking out into the air. Keep sharp metal things away from it and keep a can of compressed air handy (so you can keep it clean) and it shuld be fine.

Good choices on your system, BTW. Did you like the sound of the Memphis comps? They are very neutral to my ears, much like Dynaudio components.

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Yes the comps sounded very good. Both the installers at the shop use the same comps in there cars.

DYohn] wrote:

p>I agree with haemphyst that the ID horn loaded tweeters are not the greatest for SQ, especially not for imaging. Placement is HIGHLY critical and a slight off-axis position will result in very noticable rolloff and harshness above 3500 Hz. A much better choice for SQ would be a dome tweeter, prefereably a soft dome of you really want smooth response and flat frequency response (not always the best sounding in a car, granted, but the best performance on the trusty RTA!)
The Alpine HU should be sufficient as long as you don't push it towards max output, and it matches up nicely as high mid-level equipment with the PG amps. If you go for better amps, then I agree that an Eclipse or Nakamichi HU would sound a LOT better. Why do you feel you will need a line driver?

I don't think this guy has any experience with horns or knows anything about car audio. Horns are as easy as it gets for good sq, one thing needed for horns, an eq don't use them unless you have eq. Horns are great, they give PERFECT imaging without a perfect install. Another benefit horns a very efficient morso than your conventional soft dome tweeter crap. I have used horns in several installs and had very good luck, i have used cd1e's, cd1e mini's, and cd1 pro's. Anyway don't give up on horns yet your first list of equipment looked pretty good, I would stay away from the bramha they are junk, I would look twoards imagedynamics for a sub, or check out the peerless xls car, If you are building an sq system these two subs will give you the best result with less work

Excuse me? I must admit I don't use horns in car audio and cannot recomend them, but that's because in a near-field situation like a car they are a very poor choice and if not installed properly with the perfect crossover they sound like crap. They are much more directional than cone or dome speakers, and the off-axis coloration due to narrow dispersion angles makes positioning very critical. They are, as you say, more efficient than other types in general, but they are also much more harsh and sharp sounding, almost as harsh as a piezo tweeter. In my professional opinion horns are more suited to sound reinforcement that any near-field monitoring application. I do like your suggestion about Peerless, they make great loudspeakers. However saying Image Dynamics is measurably better than Adire is uninformed.

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DYohn] wrote:

xcuse me? I must admit I don't use horns in car audio and cannot recomend them, but that's because in a near-field situation like a car they are a very poor choice and if not installed properly with the perfect crossover they sound like crap. They are much more directional than cone or dome speakers, and the off-axis coloration due to narrow dispersion angles makes positioning very critical. They are, as you say, more efficient than other types in general, but they are also much more harsh and sharp sounding, almost as harsh as a piezo tweeter. In my professional opinion horns are more suited to sound reinforcement that any near-field monitoring application. I do like your suggestion about Peerless, they make great loudspeakers. However saying Image Dynamics is measurably better than Adire is uninformed.

Ha you need to do some car stereo work instead of read about it. The conventional tweeter sq people would cross at somewhere around 2-2.5k and you want to put power on your mid or what it to sound decent for that matter you don't want it playing that high, with you mid playing that high it creates cone break up which sounds like bad if you know what you are listen for, but you might ask your self how can i cross my mid off lower with out sacraficing performance? The answer is horns, plan and simple my mini's i have playing down to 750hz posted_image . Now you guys with tweets can't run that low, anyways done arguing gets nowhere because you are simple minded, the brahma is junk plain and simple

Whatever, dude. You know nothing about me, and from your post it sounds like your agenda here is to promote brands not knowledge. When you get a little time in the real world yourself, come on back.

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Hey aflaten, don't call people you don't even know simple minded. You don't know where Dyohn is coming from or what experience he has. Calling him simple minded is just ignorant. There's a reason he has over 1800 posts. And no the Adire Audio Brahma is not junk. Just because people don't agree with you, don't go disrespecting them.

aflaten wrote:

I would stay away from the bramha they are junk, I would look twoards imagedynamics for a sub,

You really need to explain yourself here. Considering the Brahma wins in both SQ and SPL competitions, you can not call it junk.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

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I'm not even going to bother explaining myself you guys are the way you are and i am the way i am. I don't like the brahma it is junk worst thing to come out of adire, they don't sound good in anything, don't take any power especially for a pretty beefy sub, This guy came to our shop with a brahma 15 3 cubes tuned to 30hz I thought lets put this thing on the meter, got the meter out he was doing 30-40hz burps with a jbl bp 1200.1 on it, that thing didn't know what to do so it just bottomed out, I don't know how anyone could like them. Lets look at RE we took an se 10 there entry level sub put it in the wall box pluged it in and walked away we let it go in the wall for 15minutes and then unpluged it "thought it was enough torture for one day" that sub is still working to this day, with impedence drop, and tuning this sub was getting 1700 watts of wall socket a brahma can't take that for a burp. Another thing my idq 62's to people who don't know they 6.5 midbass 2ohm i am running an old rf 1100a2 i have had the amp shutdown on me several times, i am putting at least 400 watts per mid, there isn't to many mids that can take that kind of abuse. And for this guy who posted above me, come on at finals last year when i was there, there were guys winning with crunch equipment so don't give me that it wins this and that.

So I must say i do like this site it is very cool, should advertise it alittle alot of people would come. I stumbled upon tonight and thought it was cool i am going to tell my freinds about it.

Speaking of getting a life, aflaten, why don't you send me your address, so I can mail you a quarter, and then you should be able to afford one. I can gaurantee you that there are several people here on this board (DYohn, forbidden, Steven Kephart and myself included) that know WAY more than you do, and they are not just SAYING it... they have the practical experience to back it up. It sounds to me like you are too young to realize that you DON'T know everything, and you are just spouting off... I used to be like that, then I learned I don't know everything, and started to listen, and do you know what? It works. You might try it out for a day or two, (or even a YEAR, with your attitude) and THEN come back here. I promise you, listening works. I would just like to add this: compression drivers are good for NOTHING other than sound reinforcement, and if you ever listened to a TRUE high end system, and hadn't blown your eardrums with HLCD's, you would know that I can speak from experience. Compression drivers are NOT good for near field applications - PERIOD!

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It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

aflaten wrote:

don't take any power especially for a pretty beefy sub,

Well Richard Clark burped one with 32 kilowatts of power before the Brahma started to show audible distress. Scottie Johnson runs 9 kilowatts per Brahma and has never blown a voice coil. We have many people out there with huge amounts of power that don't have any problems. Most likely your experience was with someone who didn't know what they were doing.

aflaten wrote:

This guy came to our shop with a brahma 15 3 cubes tuned to 30hz I thought lets put this thing on the meter, got the meter out he was doing 30-40hz burps with a jbl bp 1200.1 on it, that thing didn't know what to do so it just bottomed out, I don't know how anyone could like them.

Are you sure you weren't hearing clipping? The XBL^2 motor used on the Brahma let's you know if your sub is clipping much earlier than standard motor topologies. Considering the Brahma has more linear excursion than most other subs on the market, my guess is clipping is what you heard.

aflaten wrote:

Lets look at RE we took an se 10 there entry level sub put it in the wall box pluged it in and walked away we let it go in the wall for 15minutes and then unpluged it "thought it was enough torture for one day" that sub is still working to this day, with impedence drop, and tuning this sub was getting 1700 watts of wall socket a brahma can't take that for a burp.

In the right enclosure, the Brahma could handle a wall outlet too. What you do is build the enclosure so the impedance peak is at 60 Hz. Then there might only be a couple hundred watts going into it. Nice trick, but doesn't prove anything.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

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aflaten- When you walk into somebody's house, be respectful. You are never too young or too old to learn this important human quality. Online anonymity doesn't allow behavior you otherwise wouldn't show. Your future relationships are important, both personal and business, and will improve with your use of simple and common courtesy.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

aflaten, was that the finals at your local county fair you speak of? posted_image

There are people on these forums who are very qualified to speak about the subject of car audio. But if you'll notice, even with all of their experience, they are open to discussion and debate. This helps them out by learning new things and passing on their first-hand knowledge, and it also helps those of us who don't know as much. So show a little humility and maturity and you might learn a thing or two from them.

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VEHICLE: 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2
Alpine CDA-7940
AudioControl EQT x2
JL Audio 1000/1
JL Audio 10W6 (originals) x3
Kicker ZR120
Kicker ZR460
Polk GXR-6 x4
Polk GXR-4 x2

Hi all,

You may not know me, but I do have some inside knowledge of the Brahma, since I'm the individual who designed it. Perhaps I can shed a bit of light here...

Aflaten, the problem was most likely the amp clipping. You may not be aware, but the Brahma is a "bottomless" design. The voice coil is barely over 1" long, and at rest is well within the space of the top plate. With 2.25" of magnet below it, you'd have to push your Brahma to 60mm before you could bottom it. Since the suspension locks up hard are ~33mm, there is zero chance you were bottoming the driver. It's not physically possible.

Now, when you clip a typical sub, it typically sounds like a thud. When you clip a midrange/midbass it sounds like a clack - the higher frequencies of the clip come through the midrange really well. The Brahma is a very wideband subwoofer; with the low inductance, it has no problems reproducing frequencies up to the 3-5 kHz range. That means clips are really well reproduced.

Some may know Marshall Joyner - he's won lots of state championships, and top 3 world finals finishes with Brahmas and Tempests. When he first installed his Brahmas and cranked them up, he thought someone took a shot at him. The crack from the clipping of the amp was so loud and clear, it was unlike anything he had heard before. And Marshall has a bit of experience - he's not only state/top 3 world champ multiple times, but holds many SPL records in MECA.

As far as the ability to sound good, I'd recommend talking to Bob Beatty. Bob is the two time reigning world champion in SLAP dBQ - SPL and SQ count equally. He runs a Brahma 12 in 1 cubic foot sealed in his BMW, and regularly hits 141-142 dB. And the SQ is good enough he consistently gets 10s on subbass/bass reproduction.

Additionally, there will be a couple of top-notch car audio legends coming out with systems throughout this year who have chosen to run Adire gear. These are individuals who could ask any company for product and get it, but after listening and checking out everything, they've chosen Adire.

Lastly, about SPL...;) Scottie Johnson is not only a multiple-time World record holder and world champ, he's done it in multiple classes. He runs Brahma Extremes right now in his SPL van, and just won another competition and set a new MECA record with 7 stock Brahma 15s.

Brahmas are different - the flat BL curve is really something that takes some understanding to fully utilize. The drivers are considerably more efficient than anything else out there, especially at higher excursions. Efficiency is all BL and mass; mass doesn't change as you move in and out, but in standard drivers BL does (it rolls off as you move away from the center/rest position). Making the BL flat over stroke means the efficiency of the driver does not change as it moves, and means you need less power than typically you would expect, to get a given output.

So, is the Brahma junk? I'd say there is enough hard evidence out there - and thousands of happy users - that the answer would be no. An individual install may have some issues and may need some tuning, but that is the install, not the driver.

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio

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Thank you for your post, Mr. Wiggins. Your input here is welcome any time!

re: the "bottomless design." That is brilliant, and it has to be an expensive approach. 60mm of Xmax??? That's 10mm more than the Seismic 8196. Sounds as if the Brahma might be a perfect candidate for a down-firing design. I've used your Tumult loaded this way to great effect in a home theatre installation and measured flat response to 18Hz and -3db at 12Hz. Amazing. Your AV8 is one of the best midwoofers I've used, by the way. Right up there in linearity and voicing with anything from Morel or Dynaudio or Aura.

Sorry, I guess I'm being a fan. :)

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Thanks for all your guys help. And on the horns i had 2 reasons for not using them, you guys recommendations and the fact i really have no space for them. I should be ordering my gear pretty soon, i'll be sure to post picks of my install as soon as i can.

DYohn] wrote:

e: the "bottomless design." That is brilliant, and it has to be an expensive approach. 60mm of Xmax??? That's 10mm more than the Seismic 8196.

I think you were slightly misunderstanding both the numbers that Dan was using in making his point...

The Brahma's Xmax is 27.5mm... that's the limit of it's [i]linear[/i] performance.
The Xmech is about 33mm, which is the physical limit of the drivers motion... where it reaches a hard-stop.
Both of these numbers are [i]one way[/i] excursion numbers, not peak-to-peak.
Dan was simply saying that the sub would need to be able to reach over 60mm of rearward travel in order for the former to strike the back plate... a situation that's impossible due to the 33mm Xmech. posted_image

The Seismic that you quote (isn't that the same as the old Aura 1808? Underhung driver, neo, right?) I believe has a one-way Xmax of 18mm one-way... considerably less than the 27.5 of the Brahma, and nowhere near 60mm, unless you are talking about Xmech... and using a peak-to-peak number at that? posted_image

Gotcha. Sounds like amazing performance for a 12" driver. Yes, the Siesmic is the commercial version of the Aura 1808 and has p-p Xmax of 39mm with Xmech (one way) of 27mm. It's one of the best performing down-firing subs I know of.

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Hello All. I am Seth, owner of Sound Foundations, an authorized Adire dealer. I was asked to come and shed some light on the subject of Brahmas.

The most important thing I feel that should be addressed regaurding this post is that the Brahma most definately did not bottom out. I would dare say the driver sounded bad simply due to install. The issue of "bottoming" was likely either severe clipping, or a leak in the enclosure. I know, the enclosure is ported and therefor a leak will not affect it, but that is simply incorrect. A leak in a ported box will cause the driver to unload (as if below tuning frequency) creating a "popping" sound. One thing we need to keep in mind is, with a ported enclosure there is almost twice the internal pressure in the box compared to a sealed driver. Remember, at tuning, the driver and port are 180 degrees out of phase. The inrush of air occurs at the same time as the inward movement of the cone. So we have tremendous pressures in the box.

I have a ton of experiance with the Brahma. I owned one of the first MKIs before I was a dealer, and beat the poor thing like a red headed stepchild ;). My MKI saw ~1700 watts daily in both ported and sealed enclosures. The only time I was able to come close to bottoming the unit was when I had a 1700 watt burp with a 6Db 20Hz tone in an enclosure tuned to 24Hz and my subsonic set at 10Hz posted_image

. The driver didn't bottom when it unloaded (and you should have seen it movin' buddy :) ), but it did get awfully quiet when the tinsel pulled off the binding post posted_image

. Basically, from personal experiance I can tell you, it will not bottom out. I soldered the tinsel back on the driver, and used it untill the day I recieved my MKII with no issues. Of course, I did correct my subsonic setting :)

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[quote]I'm not even going to bother explaining myself you guys are the way you are and i am the way i am. I don't like the brahma it is junk worst thing to come out of adire, they don't sound good in anything, don't take any power especially for a pretty beefy sub, This guy came to our shop with a brahma 15 3 cubes tuned to 30hz I thought lets put this thing on the meter, got the meter out he was doing 30-40hz burps with a jbl bp 1200.1 on it, that thing didn't know what to do so it just bottomed out, I don't know how anyone could like them. Lets look at RE we took an se 10 there entry level sub put it in the wall box pluged it in and walked away we let it go in the wall for 15minutes and then unpluged it "thought it was enough torture for one day" that sub is still working to this day, with impedence drop, and tuning this sub was getting 1700 watts of wall socket a brahma can't take that for a burp. Another thing my idq 62's to people who don't know they 6.5 midbass 2ohm i am running an old rf 1100a2 i have had the amp shutdown on me several times, i am putting at least 400 watts per mid, there isn't to many mids that can take that kind of abuse. And for this guy who posted above me, come on at finals last year when i was there, there were guys winning with crunch equipment so don't give me that it wins this and that[/quote]

Sorry, I meant to quote this post, but I see Dan and Geo stopped by posted_image

Also, with regaurds to performance, in .6 feet I hit 144.6 and in 1.9 feet with an SQ tune of 23.5Hz I hit 147.2

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BOOOOOOOOOOOM! aflaten, You have been schooled!

Who wouldn't be a fan of Adire after that?

Wow you Adire guys are like horny bunny rabbits, your everywhere posted_image . Good to see the facts got straightened out. Aflaten, your right this is a good site that would always welcome more people, provided it is done within reason. You have made quite an entance to this site that I am sure will not be tolerated if more come on board with the same approach. There are a lot of well respected industry professionals here on this site with many many years of experience behind them. I know for fact that if I am not available to respond, another of these professionals can take up where I left off and I am quite comfortable with them doing this. Sorry I was away guys, we in Canada had a looooong hot bikini watching weekend. Seems I missed out on a great pissing contest, damn.

Aflater, I would welcome your insight and experience to the site, many of us have almost 20 years or more behind us and still to this day continue to learn more about it, you would excel even more in this profession should you choose to take off the blinders and learn from the industry professionals that post here. The one thing that you cannot learn is experience, we have a lot of it and are more than happy to share. I 'll bet that that even though my bag of tricks is large, it will always have room for more, maybe you will offer one to me without ever knowing it. Heck, Dyohn found a new trick just last month but for me it was so old it was farting dust. If you are prepared to try and force a topic, do it with an informed and educated background before doing so, otherwise it does absolutely no good at all to anyone that may read it. FYI, Dyohn does know absolutely with no hesistation or reservations, exactly what he is talking about. His resume is written for all to see on his posts, should you want to know his or any other persons backgrounds, all you need to do is ask. Welcome to the forum.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

forbidden wrote:

Heck, Dyohn found a new trick just last month but for me it was so old it was farting dust. .

And I'm a REALLY old fart! posted_image Thanks for the support, Rob. And to everyone else, too.

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Forbidden,

Sorry I was not really aware of this site previously. I know you have been a mamber of my home for several months (but you do need to post there more often posted_image

). I'll make it a habit of stopping by.

I think you bring about a good point too. No matter who someone is, or how long (or briefly) they have been doing something, they may still teach us something.

Lord knows, I've definately learned a thing or 2 from a newbie.

Anyways, I'll ofer the insight I can fellas. Looks like a nice site here.

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Steven Kephart wrote:

aflaten wrote:

don't take any power especially for a pretty beefy sub,

Well Richard Clark burped one with 32 kilowatts of power before the Brahma started to show audible distress. Scottie Johnson runs 9 kilowatts per Brahma and has never blown a voice coil. We have many people out there with huge amounts of power that don't have any problems. Most likely your experience was with someone who didn't know what they were doing.
aflaten wrote:

This guy came to our shop with a brahma 15 3 cubes tuned to 30hz I thought lets put this thing on the meter, got the meter out he was doing 30-40hz burps with a jbl bp 1200.1 on it, that thing didn't know what to do so it just bottomed out, I don't know how anyone could like them.

Are you sure you weren't hearing clipping? The XBL^2 motor used on the Brahma let's you know if your sub is clipping much earlier than standard motor topologies. Considering the Brahma has more linear excursion than most other subs on the market, my guess is clipping is what you heard.

aflaten wrote:

Lets look at RE we took an se 10 there entry level sub put it in the wall box pluged it in and walked away we let it go in the wall for 15minutes and then unpluged it "thought it was enough torture for one day" that sub is still working to this day, with impedence drop, and tuning this sub was getting 1700 watts of wall socket a brahma can't take that for a burp.

In the right enclosure, the Brahma could handle a wall outlet too. What you do is build the enclosure so the impedance peak is at 60 Hz. Then there might only be a couple hundred watts going into it. Nice trick, but doesn't prove anything.
Steven Kephart
Adire Audio

little fool........you were given a generous chance here..........

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

And this proves what, that your SE is the cat's pajamas? I've seen this in person so many times over the last 20 years that I have forgotten. Here is another one that I have done before. Have you ever run a skilsaw off of your amplifier? Doesn't prove a damn thing but it is sure impressive when your car amp can power a skilsaw and cut 2x8's in half. If I can take my car up to 8000rpm's and leave it there does this make my car the best? Heck I don't sell either but I am not going to run around condemning things as well.

Like I suggested and am now strongly recommending to you, please clean up the language in your posts, I for one will not tolerate it. If you want to lay waste with drivel like this, do it on a forum where they might allow this narrow point of view. I will again ask you to keep an open mind. There are a lot of really good manufacturers in this industry, some of them I have to sell against every day. Realize that this forum is not an avenue to sell your equipment, it is a forum designed to help people with their problems. While you may know quite a bit about car audio, there is always someone who may know more and you have no way of knowing who they are. There are also a lot of keyboard commandoes out there as well, we have no way of knowing who they are. So we'll try again please, welcome to the forum.

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Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.

aflaten, i may not have the many years you brag to have hell im only 17 and been in car audio for a year. but i have learned a little thing called respect and i have been on this forum for the entire year that ive been in car audio and i have to say you should recognize forbidden, DYohn, and Steven Kephart they do know what they are talking about and aren't afraid to admit when they are wrong as you may be. to me this piss war just seems to have happened because either you are dense and don't know respect of you don't admit when you are wrong and are one of those people who will fight till the death rather than admit their wrong.

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Quad L Handyman services

I checked the current draw with what is called a clamp on ammeter, I know this is probably over your head, but this tool that measure things like current draw which you can calculate into how much power you are sending something in which case with impedence rise the se 10 took 1700 watts for 15minutes

Would you mind explaining how you used the ammeter to come up with 1700 watts? Also, how did you measure the drivers specific dynamic impedance in the enclosure at this instance? All these things can be done, of course, but I am interested on how you came about your conclusions.

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Ok, I was gone for the weekend and just got back in town. What the hell has happened here? I leave and when I come back all the sudden there is some new guy on here trying to rip apart all the vets. Somethings not right here. I am the first to say that I think I have went head to head with just about every top guy here on one subject or another. I wentt at it wit rob about eclipse when I started and just not that long ago I went at it with Steven about, I cant even remember anymore. Point being I went head to head with these guys and every single time they made statements and then backed them up with hard facts. I dont know who you are but so far you have been mostly bullsh*t with very little substance. I am not saying you dont know what your talking about, all im saying is that you havent proven anything to me yet. I have never used the Adire products but if I had to judge them based simply on this string of posts I would probally give them a chance. Just because you had one customer come with one sub and it sounded like sh*t in an install that you didnt even do and hence cant gaurantee that it was done properly. Everyone who has posted against you have made valid points and you havent actually produced anything that says they are wrong, all you have dont is ramble off crap. I dont have 20 years experience behind me, I only have 5 but I still know enough that the excursion numbers given along with the voice coil numbers and the dimensions of the sub prove that it cannot bottom out, its not possible. I would also like to point out that those are numbers that companies generally dont scew so they are probally legit. I understand that personal experiances can sour you on a brand name. I personally despise JL and will probally never use their products ever again. I used a few of their subs and they failed me so hence I dont trust them. Now with that being said I can also say that I am not gonna say JL is sh*t, I know better than that. When someone asks my opinion I just say I dont like them, and if someone asks why I will tell them my story but also point out that they were isolated incedents and I know people that have had JL for a long time and really like it. I dont know if you are catching what Im throwing but all im saying is disagreeing is ok and if you can prove your points that thats even better. But to come on line and rip into established members, who you obviously dont know, is just dumb. Im gonna reserve my thoughts on you until I see some more of your posts but so far you are looking like someone we could all live fine without

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double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer

SQ System