opinions, move to 3 way? - SQ quest!

Alright.  I'm now completely addicted to car audio again.  :-)  It has been a wonderful distraction and way to destress from the school year.  I've got just over a month before life gets crazy again.  Help me get closer to my search for car audio nirvana as the drive to / from school will be the highlight of my day come mid August.

I have ordered the Behringer ECM8000 mic, Rolls MP13 mic pre-amp, and the TrueRTA software.  I plan on using this to do the best I can to flatten things out via the semi-parametic eq the eclipse hu provides. 

I've dynamat xtreme matted the front doors, parts of the trunk, and under the rear seat.  I plan to buy another bulk kit and deaden some more steel.

So, my question is what should I do next to improve things even more?

My first idea is to move to a 3-way system.  My 6.5" drivers and tweeters are currently in the lower door location.  The imaging is just o.k.  There isn't much space, but I think I'd be able to fit a quart premium 4" midrange driver into a fiberglass kickpanel.  I'd then take the tweeter out of the 6.5" driver coax location, replace it w/ a phase plug, and mount the tweeter into the 4" driver in the kick. 

I'd use the crossovers on the deck to do the following:
sub to 60 or 80hz, I'd have to play w/ this.  (opinions?)
6.5" driver 60 or 80 to 250ish (again, opinions on the numbers?)
4" driver from 250 to 2400 (this crossed over using the passive quart crossover)
Tweeter 2400 up.

Do you all feel like this would be a good 'next step'? 

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

I'll watch for what the pros think about this...but what are you going to do about amplification, buy another amp?  And I like to set crossovers by the numbers, but I occasionally run around to the trunk and tweek the settings a little from time to time, so right now I couldn't tell you where they're crossed over at.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

What I'd do is low-pass the sub at 80Hz and add a high-pass filter to the main components to cross those 6.5's at 600 Hz, turning THEM into the mid-range drivers.  Then add a set of 7" or 8" woofers up front crossed between 80 Hz and 600 Hz for mid-bass.  I run a setup like this with a set of Scan Speak 18W/8535's in kick panel enclosures.

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Hmm, that's interesting.  That would certainly fill out my midbass and give the 6.5" drivers a narrower frequency range to handle.  I like it!  Anyone else, suggestions?  DYOhn, how large of an enclosure would you recommend for those Scan Speaks?

Not quite sure what I'll do about the amplification.  Are there any small 2-channel class D amps?  (For my dvc 2-ohm sub)

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

Oops, I put the wrong model number.  they're the 18w/8546 (kevlar cones.)  My kicks are about 0.7 cuft, I believe, but they could be smaller.  Very tight response, rated at 100 watts RMS.  I run mine off a McIntosh MCC 302 amp.

What kind of woofer is it?  If you want SQ, drive those 2-ohm voice coils in series for a 4-ohm load on the amplifier.

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The woofer is an image dynamics IDQ-10 V.2  I run it in series currently from an Xtant A2002T.  I was thinking about using this amplifier for the midbass drivers and trying to find a more efficient small 2 channel class d to run the subwoofer.  

I can't get a mono amplifier to run at more than 1-ohm w/ a single dvc 2-ohm driver, correct?

Thanks again

(wow DYohn, sounds like you have an elite setup) 

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

How about some point source components?  Can't beat 'em for SQ.  Have some 5 1/4 eclipse point source now and they blow me away. Have listen to some, from the way it sounds you will like.

I believe the class D is always a one channel amp, one meaning mono.  And you can run a DVC 2 ohm sub at a 4 ohm load on one.  You would get the rated specs at 4 ohms. I run my USacoustics USB600D at 4 ohm, and it gives me all I need for my one 4 ohm SVC sub.  It sips power, so depending on your system power wiring gauge now, you may not need to upgrade to add the amp.

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

Just wanted to say that I know a guy that has the exact setup that you guys are talking using Quart Q's all around and 2 IDMAX 12's and it sounds absolutely phenomenal. He changes amp brands quite often, looking for the perfect ones in his opinion. Last time I talked to him (about 4 months ago), he had phoenix gold titaniums that he was really enjoying. Ahhh to have the money to play around... 

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You'd better get me out of this lord... or else you'll have me to deal with. -- Hunter S. Thompson "F.A.L.I.L.V."

kfr01] wrote:

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he woofer is an image dynamics IDQ-10 V.2  I run it in series currently from an Xtant A2002T.  I was thinking about using this amplifier for the midbass drivers and trying to find a more efficient small 2 channel class d to run the subwoofer.  

I can't get a mono amplifier to run at more than 1-ohm w/ a single dvc 2-ohm driver, correct?

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A single DVC 2-ohm speaker can be wired for 1-ohm or for 4-ohms.

Your sub is rated at 250 watts RMS.  Run it at 4-ohms by connecting both voice coils in series.  There are many class D mono amps out there that will deliver 250 watts into 4-ohms.  I believe the Xtant 6.1 is rated at 300 watts into 4-ohms, which should be fine for this woofer if you want to stay with Xtant.

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Well, I feel a little foolish for relying on the sounddomain wiring guide a little too much.  No problem on the amplifier side then, plenty of class d mono amps will work.

Here's my next problem.  I have big feet (size 13 shoe).  As you can see below my sebring doesn't leave much room for a decent sized kick.  I can't imagine fitting something anywhere close to a .5ft^3 kick in there.  This is why I was leaning towards a 4" midrange driver in the kick.  I could probably get by with very tiny enclosures and the response of the driver wouldn't be hurt badly.  Any thoughts / ideas?

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

/bump .. Anyone w/ any input on "what to do next" with my system to improve sq?

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

I think you'll have to define the problem that you perceive you are having with the system as it is now.  What is lacking, as far as what you believe SQ should be?  Is it only the imaging, or do you feel there's a lack of some frequencies?

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Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

Well, other than the imaging, I feel like the upper male vocal range and on into most of the female vocal range is slightly strained during musical peaks.  i.e. a females voice will sing strong when not a lot of midbass / other instrumentation is going on, but it gets what I can only describe as dry and strained or slightly grainy and harsh during a peak. 

I also used my old analog spl meter to determine where my biggest holes are.  (only waiting on the mic preamp for my truerta setup)  Anyway, when I did this I determined that I definitely have a midbass hole w/ the quarts from around 100-500hz.  This hole probably accentuates the break up I'm hearing during musical peaks at higher frequencies.  Anyway, I'm anxious to see the rta results, but I think this quart driver doesn't handle 1.5khz+ very well and is lacking in midbass.  I'm not optimisic that I'll be able to fix these two problems with the eclipse eq.

Also, I have a question that I can't seem to find the answer to.  Bass response should be slightly louder than the rest of the curve, correct?  When should this bump begin?  How large should it be?  +6db 45-90hz?  Anyone have any shots of rta results from great sq sounding cars?

Well, there it is.   :-)  Any thoughts?

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New Project: 2003 Pathfinder